Uncommon Snake Foods

[Cazador]

Hi all,
I have two questions. 1) What are some of the more unusual foods that you routinely feed your garter snakes, and 2) what are the strangest foods that your snakes have ever eaten? Even unusual types of fish and rodents count. Please mention whether the food is part of their regular diet or just an occasional supplement. This should be interesting :) .
Rick

[Thamnophis]

Some years ago I gave my Thamnophis, amongst others, chicken liver and spleen from cows. In those years it was part of their regular food. They got it once every two weeks or so.

[Cazador]

:D Those are great! Keep 'em coming. :D

[Stefan-A]

Hatchling budgie, once. Wildcaught house mice and voles on occasion, depending on their size.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I haven't really fed mine anything unusual....I do have a pic I found on the internet of a garter eating a roadkilled bird.....

[Cazador]

Sweet!!! Post it or post a link.

[boeh]

Sometimes (twice a year) I feed mine some chicken or cow heart cutted in bite-sized stripes :D I have asserted that my similis (:() loved them much more than the concinnus and the sirtalis.

[Cazador]

BEEF! It's what's for dinner.

[KITKAT]

I had a female T sirtalis "Florida Blue" that was so huge that she was hard to keep fed.

A bait store near me carries frozen CHUBS. These are huge minnows. She loved them. I also fed her frozen SHAD from the same bait store.

[ssssnakeluvr]

Here's the pic of the odd lunch for the garter....roadkilled bird.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/oddlunchpic.jpg

[Cazador]

Oh my gosh! How can one thing be hysterical and disgusting at the same time? Thanks for posting.

[abcat1993]

I'm just surprised that it would even try to eat it after the meat has all been ripped off the bones. All that is is feathers and small bones (and maybe some gore)

[Thamnophis]

Great picture!

[Stefan-A]

I'm just surprised that it would even try to eat it after the meat has all been ripped off the bones. All that is is feathers and small bones (and maybe some gore)
Well, it's still a free meal. And there's not much that the garter can't use, even if there's just bones and feathers left.

[GarterGuy]

That was a very cool pic! I've heard that they may eat carrion. As far as captive diet, my Manitoba redsided (T.s.parietalis) used to love frog legs. I could get them in the seafood section of the grocery store. They were WAY too big, so I just cut it up and froze it and gave him some every now and then. Figure they eat lots of amphibians in the wild, so it'd be a good addition, and as far as I know you don't have the problems with B1 deficiency like you do with fish. He also used to like chicken breast meat. (Yeh, I experimented A LOT with him since he was my first snake....LOL).

[Thamnophis]

Please don't buy foglegs.

If you have seen how they are "made' you would understand this.

The frogs (mostly Asian species) are cut in half when they are still alive. :(

The behand half (the legs and hips) are thrown in a big basket and the other half (the head and so) is thrown away in the bush.
But that part is still alive!!! And stays alive for some time untill they bleed to dead.
Can you imagine how painfull this must be?

Don't get me wrong. This is no personal attack to you, GarterGuy.
But I just want people to know how these froglegs are produced.

Personally I leave a restaurant where I see froglegs on the menu and tell the restaurantowner why I leave.

[GarterGuy]

Please don't buy foglegs.

If you have seen how they are "made' you would understand this.

The frogs (mostly Asian species) are cut in half when they are still alive. :(

The behand half (the legs and hips) are thrown in a big basket and the other half (the head and so) is thrown away in the bush.
But that part is still alive!!! And stays alive for some time untill they bleed to dead.
Can you imagine how painfull this must be?

Don't get me wrong. This is no personal attack to you, GarterGuy.
But I just want people to know how these froglegs are produced.

Personally I leave a restaurant where I see froglegs on the menu and tell the restaurantowner why I leave.

Yikes!!! No hey, no offense taken....I had no idea! Considering the fact that there's tons of stuff I don't buy, due to the fact of animals being mistreated, it's good to know that this is also something I should avoid. I just don't get people sometimes....how they could be so cruel to another living thing.:(

[Thamnophis]

People can be cruel for economic reasons, but mostly they just don't give a thing about animals. Only the money they get counts.

[Stefan-A]

I don't think it's so difficult to understand.

These are people who have absolutely no emotional ties to the animals they are being cruel to. Pet owners are the only ones that develop that kind of feeling towards animals and keeping pets is a luxury most people on this planet can't afford. If they keep animals, it's usually so that they can feed their family and you generally try to avoid getting too close to something you are going to have to kill, gut and skin. Anyway, these people feel about as guilty about cutting off living frogs' legs as any one of us would feel about ripping a living vegetable out of the ground and throwing away everything except the root.

Note that I said "understand" in the beginning. Understanding someones actions and approving them is not the same thing. I wouldn't do what they do, but then again, I'm not in a situation that requires me to do it.

[GarterGuy]

I don't think it's so difficult to understand.

These are people who have absolutely no emotional ties to the animals they are being cruel to. Pet owners are the only ones that develop that kind of feeling towards animals and keeping pets is a luxury most people on this planet can't afford. If they keep animals, it's usually so that they can feed their family and you generally try to avoid getting too close to something you are going to have to kill, gut and skin. Anyway, these people feel about as guilty about cutting off living frogs' legs as any one of us would feel about ripping a living vegetable out of the ground and throwing away everything except the root.

Note that I said "understand" in the beginning. Understanding someones actions and approving them is not the same thing. I wouldn't do what they do, but then again, I'm not in a situation that requires me to do it.

I don't know if I totally agree with that. I grew up living on a farm and hunting and fishing. Even an animal that was going to be used as a food source was still treated humanely (I hate that word, since humans don't really treat each other that well!) and it's end made as quick and painless as possible. To this day, I treat all life with a great deal of respect... whether it shares my home with me or simply shares the earth with me. Sorry to get a bit off subject, just something I'm rather passionate about.

[Cazador]

Stefan,
You did a great job of explaining how it could happen without approving it. Your interpretation was clear and well thought out. Good job, and thanks to Thamnophis for enlightening all of us about the way frog legs are processed :eek:.

I mentioned on another thread that I often feed my garter snakes scraps of caribou meat. It's from animals that I've personally killed and processed. Many people would find hunting distasteful, but I consider it a personal and private way to provide extremely healthy and well-cared for meat for myself and my family. Perhaps, as GarterGuy suggested, the difference lies in the way that the animal is killed. The goal of most hunters is to make a quick and clean kill and to pass up shot opportunities that might lead to suffering or a wounded animal. That shows respect for the animal and provides a great deal of satisfaction. I think THAT's where the difference lies between hunting and providing frog legs... It's the respect shown for the animal during the kill.
Rick

[Stefan-A]

Stefan,
You did a great job of explaining how it could happen without approving it. Your interpretation was clear and well thought out. Good job, and thanks to Thamnophis for enlightening all of us about the way frog legs are processed :eek:.

I mentioned on another thread that I often feed my garter snakes scraps of caribou meat. It's from animals that I've personally killed and processed. Many people would find hunting distasteful, but I consider it a personal and private way to provide extremely healthy and well-cared for meat for myself and my family. Perhaps, as GarterGuy suggested, the difference lies in the way that the animal is killed. The goal of most hunters is to make a quick and clean kill and to pass up shot opportunities that might lead to suffering or a wounded animal. That shows respect for the animal and provides a great deal of satisfaction. I think THAT's where the difference lies between hunting and providing frog legs... It's the respect shown for the animal during the kill.
Rick
I don't disagree with GarterGuy, but as I see it, it's also the culture we live in that gives a high priority to the reduction of animal suffering. The western civilization is a civilization of pet lovers and it's relatively easy for us to identify with the animals we keep. But you really don't have to go that far back either to find a generation that had no problems with using what would now be considered questionable methods of killing animals. Less than 50 years ago (and by this I mean that it was the rule rather than the exception it is now) rabbits were killed by breaking their necks (by hand) or you crushed their skulls, now you either give them an injection, or you use CO2 or electricity. In fact, you don't have to go back at all, all you have to do is have a look at how snakes are usually killed and compare it to how snake keepers kill them.

[Thamnophis]

It all has to do with respect for living creatures.
But we must not think we are more catholic than the pope.

My only intention was to let people know how frogs are butchered.
And everyone decides for himself/herself what to do with this information.

[abcat1993]

I mentioned on another thread that I often feed my garter snakes scraps of caribou meat. It's from animals that I've personally killed and processed. Many people would find hunting distasteful, but I consider it a personal and private way to provide extremely healthy and well-cared for meat for myself and my family. Perhaps, as GarterGuy suggested, the difference lies in the way that the animal is killed. The goal of most hunters is to make a quick and clean kill and to pass up shot opportunities that might lead to suffering or a wounded animal. That shows respect for the animal and provides a great deal of satisfaction. I think THAT's where the difference lies between hunting and providing frog legs... It's the respect shown for the animal during the kill.
Rick
I agree/disagree. I just went deer hunting and shot my first deer just above the back legs. It was trying to move when my dad had to shoot it twice and it still wasn't dead. A lot of people would think that that is cruel. The hunter doesn't neccessarily try to kill it fast (not at first anyways), you try to keep it in one spot until you can get over there and kill it. Just my opinion on it though.

[Stefan-A]

The hunter doesn't neccessarily try to kill it fast (not at first anyways), you try to keep it in one spot until you can get over there and kill it. Just my opinion on it though.
I don't know a single hunter that would even consider hunting like that.

[abcat1993]

I didn't mean that you don't try to kill it but that happened to all of the deer between the 5 deer that my dad, me, and my dad's friend shot

[Stefan-A]

Well that's exactly what it sounded like.

[abcat1993]

I probably should have thought about that post a little more.

[Cazador]

Hi Matt,
Congratulations on getting your first deer! I'm sure you didn't mean to shoot it in the best section of meat in the upper legs/rump. You probably meant to make a clean one-shot kill, and I'm sure that with more experience you'll be able to do so in the future. I'm also sure that you were proud of your kill, but you'd be even more proud if you made a clean one in order to minimize the suffering that your deer experienced. I bet that you'll spend a little more time at the rifle range improving your shooting skills over the next year, and I sincerely hope you get the satisfaction of making a clean, one-shot kill next year. You'll feel much better about it, I promise. Kind regards,
Rick

[abcat1993]

It was actually a shotgun but I do need to go to the range. I missed 5 shots before I shot it

[KITKAT]

Actually, it sounds like you may need practice with a moving target. If you aim for the chest and hit the legs, it may be because you did not allow some latitude for the fact that the animal will move forward as your gun goes off. You need to learn to lead the animal...

Also, check your shotgun and make sure you're sighted in...

Just a thought...

[abcat1993]

It is sighted in, I'm sure, but it was in the air in full sprint when I shot it. I thought I shot at least a foot before it but the gun does sway a lot. Also I didn't (obviously) want to see it struggling to get up and having it's front leg blown off before getting shot again somewhere in the torso. I am sorry to hijack your thread, hoever started this.

[Cazador]

Since we're talking about providing "uncommon snake food," here's a tip that can almost always help you bag four-legged prey without having to risk shooting at a moving target. Just make a snort, cough, short whistle, grunt, or another "natural" sound (not footsteps or breaking branches, though). Deer almost always freeze and look/listen for the object that made the noise. I almost never take a shot at a moving target when I'm in search of "snake food ;) :rolleyes:." Try it before hunting season so reassure yourself that it works. Best,
Rick

P.S. Be sure to vote in the "Strumpfbandnattern" poll under the "general talk forum" if you're interested in getting this book translated.

[abcat1993]

I wish I had told my dad to save some of the guts for my snake. Although I don't know if I would really want to deal with that in my freezer.

[Cazador]

The guts are filled with bacteria that can be harmful for your snake, and the organs can contain pesticides, organochlorines, and metals. It's best just to feed pure meat scraps anyway. If you're interested, shave a little bit off an uncooked steak; soak it in hot water; then either scent it or put it in a shallow dish with live, swimming fish. Let us know how it works for you,
Rick

[ytee29]

hi just wondering if you feed your snake meat is it room temp or cold and I was under the assumption that they would only eat live food what a relief since this house is primarly vegatrian,spinach eating snake ha ha

[abcat1993]

Would the heart work as food? Also, my snake doesn't eat fish. I've tried before and had no success. I just think mice are pretty expensive for a thirteen year old (at Petco they cost about 1.75 per mouse and about 4.5 for three) and having your snake live off of free food for a while would be nice.

[Cazador]

Ytee,
You want the meat to be at room temperature for sure. Don't serve cold meat to an ectotherm. I cut it into the right sized strips, according to the size of the snake, and freeze them separately on freezer paper. After they've frozen, I thaw as many as I want in hot water. Then, they can be scented if desired, added to shallow water with live fish, or they can eventually be presented by themselves in a dish. Sometimes, I even thread them onto light fishing string (with a needle) and give them a little motion through the tank. I tie a small knot in the end of the fishing string, so there is a tiny bit of "struggle" when it gets "captured." It's a lot of fun, but it takes them a bit of time to get accustomed to it. I'd suggest starting with the meat in a shallow dish with live fish.

Abcat,
I don't know why the heart wouldn't work as food. It has a bit of a different texture and flavor, but it should work. Just wash and rinse it well, and try serving it beside your pinkies. Be sure to occasionally supplement the meat with Calcium powder & vitamin B1. There's nothing to lose in trying, right?
Rick

[otis lee]

i have feed can cat/dog food,toads,newts,deer meat,crawfish,and last week i feed a albino toad to a albino checkered all babys.i did not get a picture.most of this is the rare treat for them. some time the babys i keep together try to eat each other at feeding time.

[Faunaofthenorth]

This really isn't that uncommon but...well i thought i'd throw it in...for the last year i have been feeding my 53" sirtalis sirtalis on full grown adult rats. She goes nuts for them and i have been feeding her huge field mice that my dog has been catching, but i do freeze them of course. Once i get my video software working on my computer, Ill post some videos on Youtube...Its actually pretty sweet to see....I also got her to eat 3 baby stillborn rabbits...and trust me...they are not small, they are way fater than the adult rats, or at least the ones i fed her were.

[Lulu Bennett]

:eek: i didn't actually realise that garters grow big enough to eat fully grown rats.

[GarterGuy]

Some can get quite large, but honestly I wonder how healthy it is to be feeding such a big meal to a snake. Even my 5.5ft. PI king only eats two or three large mice once a week. She's 17yrs. old now and very healthy. I think I'd really worry about the overall health of a snake fed like that. Also, feeding "wild" prey is just asking for the introduction of some pathogen, parasite or toxin. Not saying it can't be done, but questioning the wisdom of doing it.
Roy

[adamanteus]

I'd like to see a photo of a Garter big enough to swallow a full grown rat!

[Stefan-A]

This really isn't that uncommon but...well i thought i'd throw it in...for the last year i have been feeding my 53" sirtalis sirtalis on full grown adult rats. She goes nuts for them and i have been feeding her huge field mice that my dog has been catching, but i do freeze them of course. Once i get my video software working on my computer, Ill post some videos on Youtube...Its actually pretty sweet to see....I also got her to eat 3 baby stillborn rabbits...and trust me...they are not small, they are way fater than the adult rats, or at least the ones i fed her were.
Is it the same 53" garter you have a picture of in the "Biggest garters" thread?

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/138-biggest-garters.html#post2028

I have to say it, it does look big enough to be able to swallow an adult rat.

[Lulu Bennett]

i can see it eating a full grown mouse but i don't see it eating a rat as they are a hell of a lot fatter than a mouse.

[Stefan-A]

Well, it took a bit of searching, but I finally found a link I once posted on kingsnake.com:

Photos of garter snake engulfing adult vole. (http://www.redshift.com/%7Ebigcreek/fauna/garter%20snake/index.html)

[GarterGuy]

WOW....very cool pics! That's so cool that not only did the garter eat the vole, but that it actually caught it and was able to subdue it as well. Garters rule!!!!!:D

Roy

[Lulu Bennett]

:eek: WOW!!!i guess i underestemated the sheer determination of the garter and how big its mouth actually is and how far it can dislocate.

[Faunaofthenorth]

Actually it is big enough to eat full grown adult rats, only its not the only thing i feed her...only once in a while...and the wild rodents i feed her are frozen for about 30 days before actually being fed to her. I am fully aware of the different pathogens and parasites in rodents ...but...i have a local veterinarian that specializes in herps...so if i suspect anything is wrong then i just bring her in and hell take a feces sample or a muth swab or a blood test just to be sure. And she is not the same snake as in the photo, she is her sister and i know this because i had both of their blood taken and tested and they were siblings...so im wondering if all the females from that litter grew to be huge if they all survived or just some of them. the one i have now is about the same length as the one in the photo, and the next time i feed her one ill snap a photo.

[Lee]

Lol ya I'd love to see more photos/videos of this beast of yours!

[Faunaofthenorth]

lol she is a beast, except shes not that thick, its really odd, shes long as hell, like i think the last time i measured her she was 53 point something inches, and when she eats her skin can stretch more than some pythons can, at least the ones at our old local pet store, and yea for a while she was eating nothing but baby stillborn rabbits. At that time she would not take anything else, she loves fish and frogs but NOPE!! she would not touch them she would literally launch out of the cage with her mouth agape for the rabbit, i wasnt even expecting her to respond to them. I didnt think they would trigger that much of a stimuli, but i was definitely wrong. Im in iowa for the weekend and when i get back ill feed her and take pics and video.

[Lee]

Lol oh. My nearly 3 footish female wandering takes good sized rat pups now and again, although I've been wanting to try a small rat for somet time now as she can easily take large mice... I'm waiting for the squirrel in my backyard, wonder how she would respond to squirrel parts? lol...
(It eats my vegitables! Just today it grabbed one of our growing watermelon (softball size) and tugged it off the vine and tried to make off with it.) I'ma shoot the thing dang it.

[Faunaofthenorth]

Actually about the squirrel thing, when i first caught her next door at my neighbor's, she had a HUGE!! lump in her and my neighbor said that a few days before, he had seen a mother squirrel chirping and lunging and jerking at that snake. He told me he watched it slither down from a small tree that had very condensed and intwined branches where he had seen a squirrel's nest, and when she came down she had a huge lump in her and it was at least 8 inches long according to him. AND!!! last summer i went to helena, montana and me and my family went to a ghost town, and the DNR agent told me she and a bunch of co-workers a day before, were walking by one of the creeks when she spotted a giant garter snake (not the species), and it had a live squirrel down its mouth, about half way she says, and i didnt believe her until a man who was there showed me a crappy resolution picture of it and I'D be DAMNED!!! yup it was...only it wasnt a full grown squirrel, but that snake was at least 6 feet long...so giant common garters do exist other than the two that i captured. i wish i could have caughten it or at least taken some video.

[Faunaofthenorth]

You know what im gonna do? Im gonna start a new thread so that ppl can tell all of their weird and awesome garter snake stories, because i have a crap load of them. I have experienced many odd things over the last 12 years of snake hunting. So ,anyone who is interested tell them if they wish.

[Thamnophis]

Some 20/25 years agoo we (Reptile zoo Iguana) got piglets from a farmer.The mother of the piglets layed on them. We gave them at our larges pythons and, cut in pieces, at our monitors. Nowadays this is forbidden (giving away piglets when they are dead) to prevent diseases.Another farmer brought us some freshly killed, newborn cats.We tried to feed these also to the pythons, but they would not eat them. When they smelled them they fled. Smell of a predator, I presume.