can you cross breed

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

garter snakes succesfully?
if so post pictures of some cross breeds

[Lulu Bennett]

james do you want to take this one? :D

[Elliot]

garter snakes succesfully?
if so post pictures of some cross breeds

Cross breeding is highly discouraged. It can cause problems for the "hybrid" that is the result of the cross breeding, plus it could endanger the pure blood lines of snakes.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

Cross breeding is highly discouraged. It can cause problems for the "hybrid" that is the result of the cross breeding, plus it could endanger the pure blood lines of snakes.
have u ever done it?

[adamanteus]

I really can't see the point. You take two attractive, naturally occuring species and cross them to produce a snake that looks like sh*t and has no resale value. Best breeding true to type, Reed.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

I really can't see the point. You take two attractive, naturally occuring species and cross them to produce a snake that looks like sh*t and has no resale value. Best breeding true to type, Reed.
k i will but im just curious is it possible to make a cool cross bred snake?

[adamanteus]

Define "cool". Cross breeds generally look like what they are...a poor quality, watered down version of two originals. You'll never produce an amazing looking snake through cross breeding, they always look like a drab, non-descript, generally sh*tty snake. Also you can never sell them on to serious collectors because you can't assign them to a species.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

Define "cool". Cross breeds generally look like what they are...a poor quality, watered down version of two originals. You'll never produce an amazing looking snake through cross breeding, they always look like a drab, non-descript, generally sh*tty snake. Also you can never sell them on to serious collectors because you can't assign them to a species.
hmm ok thanx

[adamanteus]

You can produce "cool" snakes within a given species. Take your pickeringii for example, buy a really blue, well coloured partner for it. Select the best coloured offspring and breed them together, then you'll get some top-notch 'high blue', true-to-type snakes...which will be desirable to other keepers.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

You can produce "cool" snakes within a given species. Take your pickeringii for example, buy a really blue, well coloured partner for it. Select the best coloured offspring and breed them together, then you'll get some top-notch 'high blue', true-to-type snakes...which will be desirable to other keepers.
the one i already have is really blue and im getting one thats blue but its dorsal stripe is yellow would that still let the babies be pretty?

[enigma200316]

Now I have a question?
If you take the offspring and breed them, thats inbreeding and won't that cause problems or doesn't that rule apply to snakes??:confused:

[Serpentine99]

Sometimes but usually not. I think the whole unrelated bloodlines is an ethical thing rather then a way to avoid health issues though.

[Josh]

related bloodlines can cause "slugs" when breeding
reduce litters
and deformed baby risk get higher.ysical

so it also is an ethical and physical

[enigma200316]

I see, just thought I'd put that question out there.......:)

[ssssnakeluvr]

inbreeding isn't a big problem until you breed several generations in a row...you gotta do some inbreeding to get the different morphs, but usually once you get the albinos or whatever morph, then you cross them with another new gene line and expand the gene pool. On the down side, if there are any bad mutation genes, they will pop out also. a lot of people are against the hybrids....can produce some "cool" looking snakes, but not worth much...not a big fan of it myself. :D

[GarterGuy]

Actually a lot of "inbreeding" is done to create a lot of the "designer" morphs of garters. It creates a "pure" line of a certain trait. If you read Felzer's website, you'll hear him saying how he'll have something and then "back breed" it to get a desired morph. Back breeding is breeding offspring back to a parent. So it is done, but while trying to get "pure" genetics of a certain morph, you can also purify some sort of problem or disorder as well. As an example, back when albino burmese python's were first being produced, there were a lot of animals that also were born with out eyes. By purify the gene for albinism, they also brought out another recessive trait. It's since been "bred out" of them, but this is the risk when trying to do such a thing. Also if you do it too much you can also can create weaker, less viable offspring....such is the case that I've heard is happening to the SanFran garters(T.s.tertataenia) over seas. Alan Francis describes this problem on his website, how the population of SanFrans all came from a very small group and over time, inbreeding was almost impossible to avoid. This was creating less viable snakes over time and he has proposed(and I think done) crossing the CaliRedsides(T.s.infernalis) with the SanFrans to "inject" new blood into them. Since they're just a subspecies of each other and at one time would have naturally crossed, this isn't really a bad situation and would be very beneficial to keeping them genetically viable. Well, guess I've rambled on enough about this...LOL. Hope this helps.

Roy

[krystalirelan@southslope.]

I have 2 chequered garters. 1 albino and one regular. Is it wrong to breed them? I am not trying to breed them, I don't even know if I have a male/female pair, but that is how we ended up with corn snakes.

[Stefan-A]

Nothing wrong with it, if they're both checkered garters. :)

[GarterGuy]

I have 2 chequered garters. 1 albino and one regular. Is it wrong to breed them? I am not trying to breed them, I don't even know if I have a male/female pair, but that is how we ended up with corn snakes.


Yeh, no worries here, like Stephan said, they're still T.marcianus, they're just different colour morphs.

Roy

[stonyloam]

I am really new at this, but my "big eastern" had 42 babies and it seems none of them are exactly alike in coloration. They very from light, with distinct stripes and markings to almost no stripes and dark unmarked coloration with tan to gray underbellies. I had expected them to look like their mother, but not so. This is a WC snake, so at least in my area there is a wild variation in color and pattern, and you may be able to pick and choose within a species to get what you like. I personally am starting to like the darker stripeless variation.:D

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

my freind want to cross a flam and puget garter is this a bad idea?

[Serpentine99]

Well yes. They aren't the same subspecies and would muddy the bloodlines of both snakes subspecies. And as James said, why would you want to do it anyway when it's already proven you get crappy snakes with low sell value.

[Elliot]

my freind want to cross a flam and puget garter is this a bad idea?

I don't know why he wold want to do this, I can't see how you could possibly make a flame look any better than it already does.

[enigma200316]

If I remember the colors correctly he's probably trying to get the red blue color of the SanFran. Garter, but it would be unwise to breed them, so DON"T DO IT!!!!!!:eek:

[Josh]

my freind want to cross a flam and puget garter is this a bad idea?
possible as it may be, but it extremely frowned upon.
he would be taking to snakes with emense natural beauty
and dismantling that.

but it might be possible

[GarterGuy]

I think he's under the wrong impression that by mixing the two subspecies you'd automatically get a mix of the colours. I know flames are codominant, but not sure what the blue in the Pugets are. You very likely could end up with a snake that looks nothing like either of the two and could look like a plain old garter snake. Mixing snakes is not like mixing paint. As has already been stated this really is a bad idea, and probably not only could you end up with very dull looking snakes, no one would probably buy them and it would mess up how the snakes are naturally.

Roy

[ConcinusMan]

Ooops. nevermind. Didn't mean to post here.:o

[infernalis]

Like a three year time warp.....

[ConcinusMan]

I like time machines.

[Kantar]

because of the insane amount of wild garters herein southern manitoba there is some cross breeding going on. This is why I have a harder time trying to tell them apart. Red sided are a give away but when it comes to the plains/eastern there is just too many different variations. At Narcisse snake dens you will find many red sided mingling with other species of garter

[guidofatherof5]

That's interesting.
When I visited the dens 3 years ago I saw nothing but T.s.parietalis (Red Sided Garter Snake)
Never saw a single other species.

[ConcinusMan]

Probably just the timing Steve. I think that parietalis' are the last in, and first out. they are definitely not the only ones using the dens although they do make the majority. If you were to visit after the peak emergence season I'm sure you would see a variety of snakes hanging around. At least, red sided, plains, green snakes, red bellied. I think it would be quite easy to miss a dark plains or two among the masses.

I've never seen rubber boas at the dens shared with concinnus' and ordinoides, but they are there. Heck, I've never even seen ordinoides and concinnus' emerge en masse at the same time. Same site, different timing though. Concinnus' come out later, and they sort of "trickle" out instead of coming out in huge masses like the ordinoides do.

[thamneil]

Nope, Steve's observations are correct. The only other garter native to Manitoba is the plains gartersnake. The range of T. radix comes nowhere near the Narcise dens.

[ConcinusMan]

The internet is broke. Everything I can find says they are in Manitoba and range maps show them at least up to the dens. But since you live there I think the web lied.

[Kantar]

These 3 were found under the same hubcap. All of them near 3 ft long
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/312943_10150367744694359_525334358_9919163_3673522 78_n.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking snakes.
Any whole snake photos?

[Kantar]

Unfortunately no, it was tough trying to handle 3 crazy garters and a camera at the same time, the red sided I have more pictures of because that one was more fiesty and bitey. I have pictures of my hand bleeding from a bite :D

[guidofatherof5]

I have pictures of my hand bleeding from a bite :D

Sounds like a good thread title "Snake Bites"
Go for it.;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Hhehehehehe. I'll join on that.