baby snake head size

[CrazyHedgehog]

Ok, cleaning the baby tanks out tonight, and I noticed a big difference in the babies head sizes....not between fat and skinny babies either, but between fat ones...some have quite stocky heads and others are more narrow... does this have any bearing on the sex of the baby snake? or is it just luck of the draw so to speak?:confused:

[adamanteus]

Ok, cleaning the baby tanks out tonight, and I noticed a big difference in the babies head sizes....not between fat and skinny babies either, but between fat ones...some have quite stocky heads and others are more narrow... does this have any bearing on the sex of the baby snake? or is it just luck of the draw so to speak?:confused:

Can you post a decent photo of that, Inge?

[CrazyHedgehog]

give me a minute and I will go and try....

[enigma200316]

I know I read some where that males tend to have smaller heads than females,but I don't know if its really true and if you can tell in babies....

[CrazyHedgehog]

Just tried and they are zipping about too much, will see if Maf can get a better pic tomorrow. (he is better with a camera than me!)

[adamanteus]

I can't wait to see these babies in the flesh, Inge...and to choose my 1.2. I can't remember now...are the parents very blue?

[CrazyHedgehog]

not overly, but the babies are a range of different shades..

[adamanteus]

Very exciting...it's a good few years since I had Florida Blues!

[stonyloam]

My little green female has a distinctly different head shape than my other snakes. The snout is short and the head narrow, so it looks like her eyes are forward, kinda cute. None of her babies seem to show that shape, so I guess it can vary snake to snake.:confused: I'll try to get a a pix.

[stonyloam]

Here is a photo of my green girl. You can see she has a very small head with a short nose. None of her babies (as far as I can tell so far) have the same shape. At first glance I thought she was a brown snake when I found her. Makes her kinda special.:D

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/greeny_head.jpg

[Elliot]

My female ribbon has a shorter and fatter head than my male. It may just be a coincidence though.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I've never noticed a difference like that being sex oriented....I've seen males and females with different shaped heads....

[KITKAT]

Here is a photo of my green girl. You can see she has a very small head with a short nose. None of her babies (as far as I can tell so far) have the same shape. At first glance I thought she was a brown snake when I found her. Makes her kinda special.:D

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/greeny_head.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/tbrachystoma5.jpg

I wonder if she is a T brachystoma, or short-headed gartersnake (?) I got this pic of a shorthead on a website (I forget where I found it):rolleyes:

[Josh]

i dont know if there range is in new york?

[KITKAT]

Yes, New York is one of the states where they naturally occur.

And if you are breeding her to a T sirtalis male, that is why her offspring don't have the same head...

[Stefan-A]

Snakefinder says yes.

[Josh]

darn wheres james when ya need him lol

[adamanteus]

Sorry, don't know the answer to that one anyway!

What was the question again?:rolleyes: :confused:

[KITKAT]

Sorry, don't know the answer to that one anyway!

What was the question again?:rolleyes: :confused:

Whether the brachystoma lives in NY, and whether you think stonyloam's green girl is of that species?

And I think yes to both...

[adamanteus]

I think brachystoma is found in New York State. snakefinder (http://www.gartersnake.de/snakefinder/snakefinder.html) Snake finder will tell us!

As to whether or not Stonyloams is a short headed Garter...I don't know. I've never seen one in the flesh.

[enigma200316]

I know there in PA because there on the protected list according to PA game and wildlife, so I don't see why they wouldn't atleast be in some part of NY and it does look a lot like a Short-head Garter to me also......

[stonyloam]

That thought had occurred to me. The description says divided anal plate. I assume that is the last scale on her belly before her tail starts. She does not have a divided anal plate. It looks like she is a garter with a short head rather than a short headed garter.:D

[KITKAT]

I know there in PA because there on the protected list according to PA game and wildlife, so I don't see why they wouldn't atleast be in some part of NY and it does look a lot like a Short-head Garter to me also......

OK... I will stop saying it and quote it:


New York - gartersnake.info (http://www.gartersnake.info/species/united_states.phtml?state=new_york)

[GarterGuy]

Yeh I think it's just a matter of genetic diversity rather than sexual dimorphism. My departed male T.s.concinnus has the same head shape as your green T.s.pallidulus. Which I must add is absolutely gorgeous!!!!!:cool: Oh and T.brachystoma is in north western PA and south western NY.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//512/medium/Turk.jpg

Roy

[ssssnakeluvr]

I think it's an eastern....shortheads are normally the brownish color of the one in the pic, never heard of any variation in color on them....

[enigma200316]

That is true I haven't heard of any variations either.....
so I'd have to agree...

[adamanteus]

If the anal plate isn't divided it isn't brachystoma.