hi again

[loxocemus]

im a new member and i think this is my first proper post :-), i wanted to ask about what substrate you all use, when i last kept them i used paper, gravel (that was a mistake!), iv kept other species so long that i cant remember how messy garters are, i used to keep eastern indigos so i have experienced projectile poop :-) iv been reading as many threads and topics as i can, and iv hopefully sorted out some cb garters from the famous mr francis, so just have arrange housing feeding, time off work etc etc, oh and pick a species/subsp/mutation, still not done that yet either, to be honest i dont really know those species/subsp being bred these days as when i last kept them, there was no such thing as captive bred thamnophis except on a very small scale, there were few types offered othar than redsided and the occasional big florida, so if anyone can recommend a sp/subsp/mutation for a returning fan please feel free. from all my homework the difference from what i normally keep to garters is housing and diet, diet is quite simple but housing is another thing, most of my stuff like confined spaces and heatpads, wheras garters are the complete opposite so that will take a bit of trial and error :-)

thankyou for all and any help.

Rgds

Edward

[Lulu Bennett]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/enclosures/491-best-substrate.html
here is one we made earlier! lol this might help

[GarterGuy]

Hello Edward,
Glad to hear you're into getting back into garters. Yeh, quite a bit has changed. I just started getting back into them myself a few years ago. As far as the substrate thing goes...I really like CareFresh bedding. It's sort of like recylced newsprint looking, but it works really well, isn't too horribly expensive (unless you have a HUGE collection), and cleans up really well. Also it's safe if the snakes accidentally ingest any of it. Oh and it's light enough that thet can burrow in it as well (my male concinnus used to have a network of tunnels in his cage.). You can actually still use newpaper for them too and actually for babies, I use plain white paper towls....this is more so I can monitor there stools then anything else. Also some use the various types of barks and woodchip type substrates. As far as being messy, there definitely not as bad as Indigos! They definitely poop quite a bit, I'd say my 18in. female cocinnus has approx. 6-8 stools per week. Since I use the Carefresh, I just pick out the stools and then three times a month change the entire thing out. As far as a recomended subspecies/morph/ect......it's all a matter of personal choice, availability and cost. All the T.sirtalis subspecies (Common gartersnake) do very well in captivity and are available as captive bred animals; T.radix (Plains gartersnake) is another good choice if you want something with a bit more meat on it and theres a ton of morphs of this species too, and then there's T.marcianus (Checkered gartersnake) in both normal and albino that's always popular and good looking. Hope this gets you started and feel free to ask any questions here, there's a lot of us with all kinds of good advice and knowledge.

Roy

[loxocemus]

hi thankyou for the substrate info and thread link, the radix sp, those are stockier than sirtalis etc? i always thought they were skinny little things, way back when, wild caught radix where the ones to avoid, i assume its completely different now?

whats everyones thoughts on housing numbers, singles, pairs, groups etc (with the obvious care during feeding etc)

Rgds

Edward

[adamanteus]

Edward, radix are fantastic snakes. I have 2.4 and they are my favourite species. Not so colourful as many species/sub-species but what they lack in colour they more than compensate for in character. They are very keen eaters and grow really fast, easy to breed and produce quite large litters. Got to love them! At the moment I keep all my Garters in groups of three or in pairs. Larger groups would be possible but it migt be more difficult to keep a track of who's eating what etc.

[Stefan-A]

So James, which species produce the smallest litters?

[adamanteus]

I really don't know, Stefan. There are so many species I haven't kept. I believe ordinoides produce small litters, and of course Roberts' (DEKAN) melanogaster has just had quite a small litter.

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Edward :)