Hello! Thanks for having me - I'd love some recommendations on Garter species!

[Madisynn]

Hello everyone! Glad to be here... My name is Madison. I'm a sci-fi nerd, collect oddities, and I've been keeping reptiles for about 15 years now- and currently own Leachianus geckos, Crested geckos, Jeweled Lacertas, Western Hognoses, and bally pythons.

I'm really wanting to get a pair or trio of garters that can cohab in a display tank. Species that are okay with cooler temperatures are ideal, as I try not to get my apartment TOO hot because of my geckos, but if I need to keep the snakes in a separate room I can. A big thing is I LOOOOVE Blue on snakes. The more blue, the better. Bright red is a close second. I've been eyeballing the California Red Sided Garters, but I'm not sure the legality of keeping/breeding/selling them in California and if someone could help clarify that it'd be greatly appreciated as well... And lastly, I'm hoping for snakes that will make nice display animals and "hang out" and not just hide all day. Let me know what you're thoughts are! Thank you!

[Qwerty3159]

Welcome.
The California Red Sided Garter (Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis) is perfectly legal to keep in the states and I'm pretty certain it is the same in California. I could be wrong and if I am please someone correct me. However the San Francisco Garter, (Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia) is illegal to keep in the states due to its status as an endangered subspecies. Both are pretty similar in appearance. There are other blue garters such as the Puget Sound and Florida Bluestripe but I'm not sure how easy it would be to acquire them.
I know Plains Garters, (T. radix) will be a recommendation as well as Checkered Garters (T. marcianus) albeit they aren't blue. I've kept both and you have a far greater chance of ending up with a Garter that makes a nice display animal rather than one that hides. Mine only ever hide for prolonged times right after feeding or at night to sleep. I'm sure the more experienced folks will chime in.

[guidofatherof5]

I've got a call into Ca fish and wild life. I'll let you know what they say as soon as I know.

[guidofatherof5]

California Red-sided Gartersnake - Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis (http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/t.s.infernalis.html)

[Zdravko092368]

All garters are good if you want animals that will be out and visible, however morphs like albinos may have reduced activity level due to the eyes sensitivity to light.

I'm not sure about the legality of California red-sided garters in Cali but seems like Steve is on it for you, Calis will hang out in the open as adults for sure but they aren't the best tempered garters, they can be a pain to tame down. There's also blue red-spotted(concinnus) or even the normal red-spotted version is nice, you can get flame or erythristic easterns(t.s.sirtalis) or Florida blue easterns, or Florida blue stripes(similis). Also red plains garter(radix) is another great option. There's other red and blue garters out there but they are hard to find, the ones I listed are all produced regularly with people having already had a few litters of them this year, not sure if they are all sold out though or not.

[guidofatherof5]

San Francisco Gartersnake - Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia (http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/t.s.tetrataenia.html)

[Albert Clark]

Hi Madisynn, welcome to the forum! Great to see you here. All of the information that i've recieved so far has revealed that its ok to keep the captive bred specimens of infernalis. Collection from the wild populations are frowned upon.

[guidofatherof5]

Hi Madisynn, welcome to the forum! Great to see you here. All of the information that i've recieved so far has revealed that its ok to keep the captive bred specimens of infernalis. Collection from the wild populations are frowned upon.


"Frowned upon" isn't a legal term, that shouldn't be used to determine legal or illegal possession.

[Madisynn]

Thanks for your recommendations and warm welcome everyone! I'll do some more research on the species recommended... I appreciate it!

[Albert Clark]

"Frowned upon" isn't a legal term, that shouldn't be used to determine legal or illegal possession. The language is a acceptable inference as it pertains to the scientists and taxonomists studies that show the dwindling natural habitat of infernalis. Though nowhere near the conservation status of t.s. tetratenia, or the federal legislation, still a quandry. Depending on which literature you peruse the conservation status of infernalis varies as well.

[guidofatherof5]

I thought we were talking about the legality of keeping T. s. infernalis? which in the end is the only law/code a keeper should be worried about? From a legal standpoint.

[Albert Clark]

I thought we were talking about the legality of keeping T. s. infernalis? which in the end is the only law/code a keeper should be worried about? From a legal standpoint. Steve, we are talking about the legal and illegal considerations of a keeper receiving infernalis from out of state ( or in the state of California) as they are a native species. Most of the literature list infernalis as a population " of concern " bc of urbanization, flooding, and overall encroachment of civilization into their habitat. On the books legislation of being protected seems to be centered around the southern and coastal populations of other t.sirtalis native to California. Wikipedia list t.s. Infernalis as "endangered" on the conservation status. The legal status although unclear from different sources seems to be that it's not illegal to own, keep, breed, infernalis.

[Albert Clark]

Additonally on clarification, the OP is a resident of California asking about the legal implications of recieving a captive bred "native species" garter snake from out of state.

[guidofatherof5]

I still have a call into Cali fish and wildlife. So far I've spoken to 3 different offices who all direct me to someone else. I'm now waiting for another call, hopefully, she will know something and can help in this situation. The bureaucracy is unbelievable.

[Albert Clark]

Not unbelievable but inconsiderate. I went through something similar with the Pennsylvania Fish and Wildlife dept prior to obtaining clearance and a aquaculture license to vend at the Hamburg reptile expo. But once in the right department the greetings and information became more friendly and personal.

[guidofatherof5]

Just got off the phone with Lora Pat (CA Fish and Wildlife, 916-341-6981) Very nice person to deal with. Here's what I got from our conversation. The easiest thing to do is to possess a CA Sports Fishing License and collect a snake from the wild. She did caution where you collect it as there are some restricted areas(San Mateo County) and most of Southern CA.
The other option is to buy from someone out of State and have it shipped after you've gotten this form approved. If any other question need answered I would give Lora a callback. Hope this helps.
https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=47567&inline

[Albert Clark]

Nice research into the questions Steve. Sounds eerily similar to Penna State Law and the aquaculture licensing needed to vend at the reptile expos.