wild baby albino garter snake care advice

[user]

My bro found a little baby albino garter snake yesterday. Not sure what specific species, but I live near Eugene.

Right now it is in a plastic bin with papertowl substrate, a few hide spots made from toilet paper roll cut in half, water dish with rock so it doesn't flip, and a regular auto shutoff heating pad that is really annoying to deal with. The heating pad is on the lowest setting and shuts off very often, it is under the cage folded in half with a hand towl folded in half on top of it to absorb some heat. The temperature in the cage at this moment ranges from the coldest spot ~71f to the hottest ~89f, I got these temps using a laser grip 774 heat gun. We are working on getting a proper heating pad and a thermostat. I have tried feeding it earth worm cut in half, then 1/4, then even smaller, over 2 sessions. It hasn't shown interest, I VERY gently tapped it on the face over and over with the worm and after a while it will open its mouth then close it again. Mostly it pulls back its head or just sits there. I have seen it slithering around its cage, like right now, sniffing around but yeah no feed. I have read that a 'rule' is that you let the snake sit for 3 days undisturbed with no feeding or handling, maybe longer with wild caught (like this one), but I was worried since it's a baby. Any advice you guys got would be coo.

[guidofatherof5]

A photo would be great. Sounds like you've done your research which is a good thing. Let's get this snake identified and go from there. Hides, heat and water is a good start.

[guidofatherof5]

Once again, an ID is important but you might try offer a tiny slug to the snake. It's just a guess but there seems to be a number of albino Thamnophis ordinoides - Northwestern Garter Snakes being found over that last couple of years.

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wildlife/living_with/docs/LivingWSnakes.pdf

[Tommytradix]

It can be a oregon red spot, wandering or northwestern. Eugene is at the southern end of the Willamette valley. I'm hoping it's a concinnus. Can we see pics please? Does it have any red on it?

[Zdravko092368]

A picture would be good so we can identify species and see how it's current health is. Also it would be beneficial to try not to disturb it much. If you want to offer it food, cut up worms on a small plastic dish or lid left in the enclosure for a few hours or overnight is fine.

[gartergabe]

My bro found a little baby albino garter snake yesterday. Not sure what specific species, but I live near Eugene.

Right now it is in a plastic bin with papertowl substrate, a few hide spots made from toilet paper roll cut in half, water dish with rock so it doesn't flip, and a regular auto shutoff heating pad that is really annoying to deal with. The heating pad is on the lowest setting and shuts off very often, it is under the cage folded in half with a hand towl folded in half on top of it to absorb some heat. The temperature in the cage at this moment ranges from the coldest spot ~71f to the hottest ~89f, I got these temps using a laser grip 774 heat gun. We are working on getting a proper heating pad and a thermostat. I have tried feeding it earth worm cut in half, then 1/4, then even smaller, over 2 sessions. It hasn't shown interest, I VERY gently tapped it on the face over and over with the worm and after a while it will open its mouth then close it again. Mostly it pulls back its head or just sits there. I have seen it slithering around its cage, like right now, sniffing around but yeah no feed. I have read that a 'rule' is that you let the snake sit for 3 days undisturbed with no feeding or handling, maybe longer with wild caught (like this one), but I was worried since it's a baby. Any advice you guys got would be coo. congratulations if your brother decides to sell it put me on the top of your list I have other albinos I can trade plus cash if your brother likes albinos if not stil greater find I would still like to see photos

[user]

Thank you for all the responses!

It has a few scrapes and dings on it but it doesn't have any serious injuries and like I said it slithers around its cage.

At this point we don't want to sell it. When I get back from doctor in like an hour I will try what zdravko bro says. We have a thermostat and pad on the way now too. I tried to link them but I can't post links. We got zoomed medium heating pad and the jumpstart thermostat controller.

/qGI7Q0p.jpg imgur end link can't post pic for some reason.

[user]

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EDIT: got it to work lol

Also that is my gfs hands and her middle finger, from tip to where the webbing starts, is just about 3 inches. Just so you can get a little more size reference.

[guidofatherof5]

Zoomed and sharpened to help with the ID. Appears to be a T+ albino, I'm not sure of the species.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/albino2.JPG

[user]

I will try to post better pic in a little while. Thanks for sharpening.

[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful little one. Thanks for taking it in as this is the best way to rejuvenate the albino line.

[Tommytradix]

Looks like a (T+ positive) albino Northwestern to me. There have been 2 other albino Northwestern found but both were T-negative. Great find!

[Eddie]

Nice find!! Good luck with it!!

[guidofatherof5]

Slugs become even more important now for this little one.

[user]

Slugs become even more important now for this little one. I read that slugs and worms are the Northwesterns proffered diet. Tonight I will go hunt for a slug. If I can find one I will chop it up and offer it along side some chopped worm in its cage overnight tonight. I've had experience with various reptiles but its been a while and never garter snakes. I've read that they are somewhat easy to care for but that the Northwestern can actually be hard to care for compared to the others. How long can it go without eating before I should start worrying? Is there anything I should know about baby garter snakes or Northwestern care specifically?

I do wish I had a better heating pad because this one turns off every like 15 minutes. That will get here on Sunday or Monday though. Right now the coldest looks to be about 76f and the hottest 86f. When I'm asleep I cannot turn it on for about 6-9 hours but I keep my heater on which keeps it above 75 usually. It is fall here and it's pretty chilly all the time so I think if it can survive outside in 55f weather then it can survive in my room overnight. But yeah any info is appreciated.


Nice find!! Good luck with it!! Thank you. Hopefully the little guy grows up big and strong.


Looks like a (T+ positive) albino Northwestern to me. There have been 2 other albino Northwestern found but both were T-negative. Great find! Thank you for the identification! I think it may be a Northwestern as well. Any other opinions are welcome too.


Beautiful little one. Thanks for taking it in as this is the best way to rejuvenate the albino line. Thanks yeah it is very beautiful, I can't believe my brother found it. He almost stepped on it! Could you imagine that! I'd rather not lol.

EDIT: Also your vid from 2013 of you feeding that wild garter in the side of your house is awesome. I've never seen anyone feed wild snakes before.

[guidofatherof5]

These are cold hardy snakes. I don't think heat is a major factor at this point. You can certainly offer the heat but I would also offer multiple hides and let the snake decide what it wants. You should be able to find some small slugs so you won't have to cut them up. There again a goulash of worms and slugs would be good. Best of luck and please keep us post on this wonderful little Tham.

[user]

IT ATE A SMALL SLUG! OH MY GAWD! SO HAPPY! :D

Just wow. The little snake was sniffing around its cage so I figured I'd offer a slug I had just secured (1 of 3, very easy to find once you know where to look, under trash cans lol). I tried a putting it near it's face, no luck. Tried tapping its face, no luck. It was tongue flicking more than before though so after a while and trying putting it on the rock in the water dish I just put it on the ground and watched the snake continue to sniff around, it started going away from the slug, but then it turned around and went near it again. At this point I suspected the snake may be interested in the food, so I took my tweezers (i need to get some pro tongs like you guys) and put them behind the slug and shook them just a tiny tiny bit very quickly and the snake honed right in on those, came towards them, bumped into the slug and paused for a moment, then mowed down on that mofo.

SO HAPPY! :D

I have 2 more so I will offer at least one more tonight. SO STOKED IT ATE MAN NOW AT LEAST IT WONT DIE OF STARVATION WOOT WOOT! :)

I will post some more pics and keep you guys updated.

EDIT: thanks for recommending small slugs!

[guidofatherof5]

That is great. Nice work. Don't overfeed, a nice little bulge in the belly is good. Maybe offer a small dish of slug/earthworm goulash at night before bed. These guys hunt at night. You may be surprised to find a clean plate in the morning. Earthworms are the pale looking little worms you find in the leaf clutter and just below the soil surface. Be sure to collect worms in a safe area. No fertilizer or herbicides.
I love my radixes but ordinoides is my 2nd favorite garter.

[user]

Do you know how often to feed a baby Northwestern? I have read to feed once every 3-4 days, but I've also heard once every other day up to once a day, and none of that aimed specifically at the Northwestern.

I will be conscious of where I collect it's food, that is smart. It wasn't interested in another slug but it is a very little snake. Right now it's under it's hide on the heater side which is the side it prefers so far.

Now I will ask non essential questions. Feel free answer or ignore them :p

What about radixes makes them your favorite? What about ordinoides makes them your second favorite? And by any chance would you know what the word ordinoides actually means? I read that radix means root in Latin so the full name for Plains Garters in Latin would translate to like Shrub Serpent Root or something lol. Plains garters are beautiful btw, I didn't even know they existed before.

Another user here prefers concinnus to ordinoides because of their personality differences which I find really interesting.

[user]

Another question I am wondering is how rare is it to find a wild albino garter snake? I love catching snakes and have done so quite a bit, but have never seen a wild albino anything.

My brother found this one just down the road on the sidewalk by a community garden in the park while walking home so he brought it back in his shoe because he was not sure if it was poisonous (lol). If there is albino in the gene pool down there I may have to try and catch another Northwestern at some point. Apparently when he was a kid he found a white gopher snake with some black patterning or speckling. Lucky ******* wtf.

[user]

Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia is another name that I just read for the Northwestern. I'm looking at the snake right now it's poking it's head out of the hide. So cooooooooooooooool. And also so small. And albino :eek:

[guidofatherof5]

Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia is another name that I just read for the Northwestern. I'm looking at the snake right now it's poking it's head out of the hide. So cooooooooooooooool. And also so small. And albino :eek:

Sorry, T. s. tetratania is the San Francisco garter snake. It is Federally protected as an endangered species. A Northwestern Garter is Thamnophis ordinoides only.

[user]

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Welp I was wrong but I blame these guys lol. I used to look at those garter snakes in a reptile book when I was young, they are very pretty too.

[guidofatherof5]

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Welp I was wrong but I blame these guys lol. I used to look at those garter snakes in a reptile book when I was young, they are very pretty too.

You are correct to blame them. Post a link to that site and I will send them a message explain the problem. Found the site, not sure how to contact them.

[user]

animal estates / 5.5 tree swallow (http://www.fritzhaeg.com/garden/initiatives/animalestates/animals/garter-snake.html)

There is a link to the site. I'm not sure what they're all about but that's a good idea :)

Another update. The snake came out of it's hide and made a slight full body twitch after being still for a minute. That was weird so I decided to check temps and everything. it was like 90 outside the hide and when I checked underneath it was 96! Put the snake in its water dish which was at around 70 since hes by a open window and it was all good. Tried feeding it by putting slug near it and poking the slug towards it but that failed so I chopped that poor ******* up and put it near the snakes hide which is where it had moved. I watched for a long time then left it there for like 5 minutes and when I looked back he had eaten the second slug. It LOVES the slugs, such a good recommendation. Now the little snek is slithering around it's enclosure sniffing and I really enjoy watching, it's so alert and explorative. But I gotta sleep because my sleep schedule is so messed up now lol. I'll post again tomorrow with more pics, hopefully better ones.

[indigoman]

Sounds like he is settling in , good job on monitoring the temps. It is very important for his well being.

[Zdravko092368]

Great find, Northwesterns don't like it too hot and prefer worms/slugs. Hope it does well for you.

[Zdravko092368]

Great find, Northwesterns don't like it too hot and prefer worms/slugs. Hope it does well for you.

Also it's pretty rare to find an albino... my best guess would be it appears once in every 10,000 or more snakes but most garters die before they reach one year old and albinos die disproportionately higher than normal. So finding an albino that is passed a few months of age is very uncommon.

[user]

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[user]

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I also took a vid. You can spot some of it's scrapes and dings on it's dorsal stripe pretty easily and in other places. Right now he's trying to escape the cage lol. These were taken with my gfs iphone 6 plus which I wont have access to for a while after today so the pictures wont be this good if I take more in the next couple days.

Also these are the compressed versions I think. I'll try to get the non compressed next time.

Hopefully you guys can know now if it's a T+ or T- for sure.

And the heating pad/thermometer are coming tomorrow so hell yeah, **** this murderous heating pad I'm using currently.

[guidofatherof5]

With the amount of melanin in your snake it screams T+ in my opinion.

[user]

In my TOTALLY uneducated opinion, I agree. That's after looking up the definition of the terms and looking at python morphs that are T+ and T- on google images and comparing. The differences in coloring are pretty pronounced. On it's nose you can see red/orange hue and on the kind of "checkering" between its dorsal and the other stripes seems to have a pretty contrasting pattern. It also has reddish hues that come through on it's sides. It's very pretty. I will definitely take more photos on a different background to try and show it a little more.

Would this be the only known T+ albino NW found?

[guidofatherof5]

Not the only but very rare indeed. Here's a couple of old posts.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/9506-i-found-albino-garden-snake-40.html

I think this second one is a T+

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/welcome-lounge/13748-new-snakes-new-site-d.html

[user]

Yeah I saw that first post, that snake is very white. It's eyes are much more ruby than this one's.

That second link is crazy. That dorsal stripe is soooo orange on that snake. I agree I think that one is a T+ as well, it has too much color. It's eyes are so ruby and it has that awesome head stamp. Whoa.

[user]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw1xjQ1t8ZY

Secret albino vid :eek:! I didn't notice at the time, but this is actually a video of the little snake pooping lol. You can see there is no poo, then there is poo. Also that's my brother and gf making noises >:O!

[guidofatherof5]

It is usually more difficult to see when an albino goes into shed. This is something to watch for. Having a shed box available is important as retained sheds can kill little snakes. It looks like this snake still has its tail tip which means it has had successful sheds in the past. Watch the humidity, I'd suggest 50-60% would be good. Great looking little scrub, glad it is safe inside as mother nature is very hard on albinos.

[user]

Okay that's very good to know. I will be sure to provide a shed box. We can also work on getting a humidity reader in the next couple of days too.

Yeah glad it's safe and it has eaten. Crazy it's alive. Do you think I should feed it again tonight? It ate 2 small slugs last night and pooped earlier today which is on that vid.

[user]

You can see it's scrapes and dings in the video pretty well (for anyone who watches be sure to do 1080 if you can). I wonder what injured it like that. Maybe insects or something.

[guidofatherof5]

Feed it again. These are high metabolism snakes. A snake this size is going to try and grow as much as possible. Bigger = long life.

[guidofatherof5]

You can see it's scrapes and dings in the video pretty well (for anyone who watches be sure to do 1080 if you can). I wonder what injured it like that. Maybe insects or something.

Hard to tell. By the way I'm pretty sure it's a female.

[user]

Great okay I will do that tonight. Thank you Steve you are so helpful!

EDIT: What made you think it's female?

[guidofatherof5]

The side view of the tail cloaca/vent area in the video. I saw no male junk area, just a nice female taper.

The line represents the vent location. I see the beautiful taper of a female.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/tail6.JPG

[user]

I hope your ID is right because I was hoping it was a girl!

Another quick update: offered HER a small slug I sliced some so that it was still whole but was smelly and covered in guts and SHE went strait for it. I will go hunt more slugs for her tonight. Looks like she is eating slugs consistently and readily. feelsgoodman.

[guidofatherof5]

I hope your ID is right because I was hoping it was a girl!

Another quick update: offered HER a small slug I sliced some so that it was still whole but was smelly and covered in guts and SHE went strait for it. I will go hunt more slugs for her tonight. Looks like she is eating slugs consistently and readily. feelsgoodman.

Have you tried any earthworms yet? You really need to try. Having 2 foods to offer is better than 1. You could get a frozen/thawed pinky and offer some of it covered in slug slime/guts/fluid. I used to cut the legs with shoulder and thigh, coat they and feed them to my Northwesterns. After awhile I didn't have to scent them. It just became something else they would eat.
You are doing a great job with you new scrub.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/earthworm2.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/rosy-nosed.JPG

[user]

I offered it worm last night with a slug shop/guts with it and she left the worm but ate the slug. She's picky lol. I'll keep trying.

I decided to start measuring her weight today. She is currently 2.18g and about ~7 inches. She also took another poop.

[guidofatherof5]

Keeping a written record/log is a good thing. Great idea.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

100% T+ northwestern. Nice find!!!

[guidofatherof5]

Have you tried hand feeding? I can send you a couple pair of hemostats if you would like. PM me your information and I'll get it out to you.

[user]

Yes I've tried feeding her worm by hand using tweezers (they suck!) but she doesn't like it yet. Last night I put a worm covered in slug on top of a dead slug in her cage and she went around the worm and ate the slug instead lol. Yesterday she weighted 2.18g, today she weighs 2.25g. +.07g! :O!

Last night I also left the top of her enclosure off (i switched her enclosure to one she could actually get out of with the top of temporarily), and she escaped when I looked away for a few minutes because I was used to her not being able to get out. I found her under my bed though so it's all good and I never ever leave the cage top off if I am not looking right at it anymore, even for a minute.

[guidofatherof5]

Garters are escape artist and an open top makes it way too easy. Please keep in mind the value of this snake. You dodged a bullet especially with the size of this snake.

[user]

Yes it was a total NOOB mistake, I knew better. I have learned my lesson. I'm treating 'lid safety' with the same respect I've treated firearm safety.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds good.

[user]

Picked her hide up and dropped a slug in front of her face with some tweezers and she took that really quickly. She is tiny, so cute. It looks like she will pretty close to hand feed off of slugs but she always recoils and runs away from worms lol. We got a frozen pinky today and I'm going to cut it's arms and legs off and coat them in slug tomorrow probably. We'll see how it goes.

I've been feeding her around 3 small slugs a day so far. When you hold her up to the light you can see through her and see the food blotting out the light where it's moving through her digestive tract. You can also see illumination from the light when you look through one of her eyes and out the other. Since she is albino it's super easy to see through her, it's pretty cool to see.

I read that the size of a newborn Northwestern is about 6 inches. Holding her up to a measuring tape by her tail I got a length of 6 1/4 inches. She probably was born within the last month is my just guessing.

[user]

2.61g (just ate a slug while wrapped around my finger) from 2.25g yesterday. Few more lower quality pics from earlier today.

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[guidofatherof5]

Nice. I do see a couple areas with what appears to be shed skin. This needs to be watched and using a shed box might be a good idea in case there is some retained shed or she is in shed.

[SourceAll]

Hey Steve, do you have a safe temp recommend for the shed box? Was thinking matching hot spot temps would be a good guide...

I can use a temp gun to get it just right. Wouldn't want to stress or steam any friends...


Nice. I do see a couple areas with what appears to be shed skin. This needs to be watched and using a shed box might be a good idea in case there is some retained shed or she is in shed.

[user]

Nice. I do see a couple areas with what appears to be shed skin. This needs to be watched and using a shed box might be a good idea in case there is some retained shed or she is in shed. While looking at the pics last night I noticed that too. I saw your vid on shed boxes, I'll use the temp gun and get the water to 85f then put her in for a little like your video.

[WarriorPrincess]

WOW! Reading this thread really brought back memories. :) As I was putting Halloween directions up this October 23 I realized it was the day 5 years ago that I found Casper. I sure miss her. Congrats on your find and best of luck Loving her to maturity. FYI Casper being native in the NW she preferred climate temp being between 68-73. I think I'll go searching the fields around my house this weekend to see if I have any luck.:D

[user]

WOW! Reading this thread really brought back memories. :) As I was putting Halloween directions up this October 23 I realized it was the day 5 years ago that I found Casper. I sure miss her. Congrats on your find and best of luck Loving her to maturity. FYI Casper being native in the NW she preferred climate temp being between 68-73. I think I'll go searching the fields around my house this weekend to see if I have any luck.:DWhat type of snake was Casper? Was Casper albino too, did you find it wild? That's a good idea, I didn't really know it before finding this one but garter snakes are totally awesome. I love when they stick there little head up in the air and look around.

[user]

Steve, the hemostats and scissors got here! Thank you so much for them and thanks for the penny too that was really nice of you. They work so much better than the tweezers I was using before, I appreciate it.

I've been watching her because I've been worried about a unshed skin or something, I've soaked her a few times, I think maybe one scale came loose. I notice on her stomach there is some slight creasing. I also notice little black dots, the biggest of which I got a picture of. She also has not wanted to eat for the since around midnight on Nov 3rd which wasn't that long ago.

In the center of this you can see the black dot. She has a few more smaller ones I think. I thought it may be dirt but it doesn't come off when I rub it. You can also see maybe some rough scales? Some are wounds healing but others seem to be just a little out of place? It's easier to see in pictures then with your naked eye, I wish I had a magnifying glass, maybe we can try to get one.

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This is her belly, that may be retained shed or just tension along her rib cage creating a divot
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Last thing about the penny. I used to love going to San Francisco zoo when I was a kid and LOVED getting these pennies from all the machines. I have never seen this one before. Thanks for that penny again.

[guidofatherof5]

Okay, I think your snake has a retained shed but without being there I can't know for sure. This is a dangerous situation especially for small snakes. Here is my suggestion. Make up a warm shed container use a lid to trap the warmth in. Make sure there is also some water in the container. After 20 minutes of shed box time take her out, here's where it gets tricky. There are two easy areas to check for a retained shed. One is at the corners of the mouth and the other is the vent/cloaca. As soon as you take the snake out rub up in the jaw area or the vent. If there is a retained shed the shed should start to come off. To help get it loose I use running warm tap water. If the shed starts to come loose at the head you should be able to grab it and peel off the head and jaw area. Try not to break the dead skin, you are trying to loosen it so you can let her crawl out of it while you genitally hold in against her body. It will be like turning a sock inside out. Keep us posted on this situation. I think I did a post on retained sheds, I'll try to find it and bring it up on the page.

[user]

Alright, she's in the box right now, she's been there for a while. There is condensation on the top and the temp is around 80 where she is hanging out I think.

[user]

She wasn't too happy with that lol. I gently rubbed around her jaw mostly, I didn't see anything come off but I'm going to give her more time. The next time I'm going to use a wet Qtip to rub because she is tiny.

I am also unsure but am ordering a magnifying thing and putting her in the shed box doesn't hurt.

[guidofatherof5]

Finger skin works best. Cotton doesn't offer enough resistance to get the shed loose. Have you seen any crinkly skin on she sides when she is bent?

[user]

Thanks ok I will do that instead. No I haven't, that's something I've been looking out for.

[user]

I use my finger along her jaw/mouth and cloaca but no peeling. There is also no folding at all on her sides. I will keep watching.

[WarriorPrincess]

I also live in Oregon between Troutdale and Sandy outside of Portland. Casper is pretty rare I guess. N.W. Albino. I did find her in the wild basically near a drain pipe in front of my house. I had never seen a white garter snake before then and thought it odd so I found this site and a lot of wonderful people here helped me raise her. Recently I had surgery that had me down for a while and nobody in my family wanted to help care for her while I was down so I thought it best to send her to a fellow who specializes in rare snakes in hopes he could breed her to further the line. He updates me occasionally and I pass the info on here to the folks who helped me raise her. She really had a great personality which I never thought snakes had. They can be just like a dog or cat. And often as moody or funny as a human which I never thought possible. I now think of snakes in a whole new way. Casper was one of the best things that ever happen in my life and I'm so glad I had the experience with her. I actually bawled like a baby the day I gave her up. Silly I know but you really get attached. Enjoy your new baby and keep us posted. :) 142061420714208

[user]

I also live in Oregon between Troutdale and Sandy outside of Portland. Casper is pretty rare I guess. N.W. Albino. I did find her in the wild basically near a drain pipe in front of my house. I had never seen a white garter snake before then and thought it odd so I found this site and a lot of wonderful people here helped me raise her. Recently I had surgery that had me down for a while and nobody in my family wanted to help care for her while I was down so I thought it best to send her to a fellow who specializes in rare snakes in hopes he could breed her to further the line. He updates me occasionally and I pass the info on here to the folks who helped me raise her. She really had a great personality which I never thought snakes had. They can be just like a dog or cat. And often as moody or funny as a human which I never thought possible. I now think of snakes in a whole new way. Casper was one of the best things that ever happen in my life and I'm so glad I had the experience with her. I actually bawled like a baby the day I gave her up. Silly I know but you really get attached. Enjoy your new baby and keep us posted. :) 142061420714208 Wow what an awesome story! That's also really cool we both found albino NW garters!:eek::D That is pretty much how my brother found this one! And we both found them around the same size! Your Casper is such a healthy looking cutie, I hope that this little girl can grow up just as big and strong as Casper. That is good thinking on your part, really putting the snakes health and well being first. Maybe you'll find another little baby or maybe the guy who is taking care of her will give you one of her babies. That is amazing looking at Casper as a little baby and then as an adult, she is really beautiful. She was so pink when she was little lol. I wonder how this little girls color will change as she grows. Yours is T- and mine is T+ so cool. Casper is seriously a healthy looking animal, a testamate to your great care. I'm glad your surgery went went well too :)

So I woke up this morning and checked her out. I found her partly in her water bowl, so I bothered her for around 10 minutes with some slug but she wanted non of it pretty much, a little tongue flicking as usual though. But I picked her up and looked at her eyes and that seems to explain some of her behavior and also the fact that I got only around 2 scales off. I will keep watching her. I think I may keep giving her shed box sessions just to ensure her shed is good and moisturized but it may not be necessary. Outside it's raining and the humidity is like 94% according to google.
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Nov 3rd: 2.65g (right after feeding)
Nov 4th: 2.27g
Nov 5th: 2.34g

[guidofatherof5]

I think within the next week your girl will shed. That photo of the cloudy eye really seals it.

[WarriorPrincess]

Caspers eyes would cloud up like that too right before a shed. In photo 2 that I posted you can see a fake green plant I put on the aquarium glass that she could climb through that assisted in her shedding process. Anything like that they can wrap around and wiggle through helps. Her first shed was on a stick I had put in. It was enough for her to get traction against but the fake plant worked best to get it off in one piece all the time. I will try to find a photo that shows it better.

[WarriorPrincess]

ok here are a couple photos I found of it. It worked very well for sheds.1421314214

[user]

2.26g today.

Her eyes aren't blue now and she still does not want food but I heard that is something that they can do while shedding. She did sniff it again though. I'm going to shed box her after I take a shower.

[guidofatherof5]

She should shed within the next few days. I hope you wake up one morning and find a complete shed in her home. Many garters will soak, then you will find the shed wrapped around the water bowl.
Not sure how you are doing it but weekly or every two week weights work good. It keeps the stress down until she is completely settled in with you.

[guidofatherof5]

In some of my enclosures I use fake plants, my garters will fill those plants with sheds. I make a bundle out of the fake ivy.

[user]

She's shedding! It looks like it's a perfect shed like when you take a sock off, so excite! :D

[user]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BC8kyiKq3Y&feature=youtu.be

I mean like when you take it off and it comes off inside out. Not the other kind where you scrunch it up but there is a video, my gf is here for just tonight and her phone was here.

[guidofatherof5]

Awesome, was it a complete shed? Look for both eye caps and the tip of the tail.
With good food and a steady supply of it expect a number of sheds as your girl tries hard to get out of that "Happy Meal" stage. Keep doing what you are doing.

[user]

1422514226

Woke up and she had a full shed with both eye caps off (wrapped around her water bowl lol) and I'm 99% sure all her tail is off too from looking the shed over, I did break the tippy tip off trying to invert the last mm or so of it. She ate a big slug today. Her eyes are dark red, it's cool. So shiny. I still have the mouse so I can start trying to get her to eat that again in the coming days. I'm happy now because it's now looking stable. She eats and poops and drinks, is alert, sheds well, and her wounds are healing good. One of the last things is varying her diet. She can also move much better now that she shed, she is fast as ****.

[guidofatherof5]

Like a bright shiny penny, she looks great. If I were you I would cut the shed open to be sure the tail tip shed is there. You are doing a great job, I'm glad she is with you. Keep up the good work. I'm really glad you made it to this forum.

[user]

Yeah me too, it's a great community. I appreciate the hemostats, scissors and penny, and your and everyone else's knowledge is extremely helpful and makes me feel much better about taking care of her. I really want to see how big she will get.


I love my radixes but ordinoides is my 2nd favorite garter.

I'm still curious why radix and ordinoides are are your favorites, especially because ordinoides is so far away. Is it because ordinoides can also have that cool orange stripe?

[guidofatherof5]

Yeah me too, it's a great community. I appreciate the hemostats, scissors and penny, and your and everyone else's knowledge is extremely helpful and makes me feel much better about taking care of her. I really want to see how big she will get.



I'm still curious why radix and ordinoides are are your favorites, especially because ordinoides is so far away. Is it because ordinoides can also have that cool orange stripe?

It has to do with temperament. I've found T. radix to be the most easy going species. The females are really great and become attached to there keepers. T. ordinoides is a smaller snake but has such a big heart, very bold and will not take crap from larger garters. They are also very easy to work with. My favorite radix is just a plain one I find in my yard. I hand feed many of my wild ones. If you want to learn more about Thamnophis, I strongly recommend you buying this book The Garter Snake - Evolution and Ecology. It is considered the garter snake bible by many of us. The authors Rossman, Ford and Seigel are experts on the species. The book is pricey but a must. I love the fact that of all the garter they could have put on the cover they choose T. ordinoides. Love it
Just Google the title to find the best price. I have an X-library copy and love it.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/the_garter_snake.jpg

[Tommytradix]

They need a serious update on that book. There's lot of species missing but all the info on the ones they do have is still relevant.

[Tommytradix]

I also live in Oregon between Troutdale and Sandy outside of Portland. Casper is pretty rare I guess. N.W. Albino. I did find her in the wild basically near a drain pipe in front of my house. I had never seen a white garter snake before then and thought it odd so I found this site and a lot of wonderful people here helped me raise her. Recently I had surgery that had me down for a while and nobody in my family wanted to help care for her while I was down so I thought it best to send her to a fellow who specializes in rare snakes in hopes he could breed her to further the line. He updates me occasionally and I pass the info on here to the folks who helped me raise her. She really had a great personality which I never thought snakes had. They can be just like a dog or cat. And often as moody or funny as a human which I never thought possible. I now think of snakes in a whole new way. Casper was one of the best things that ever happen in my life and I'm so glad I had the experience with her. I actually bawled like a baby the day I gave her up. Silly I know but you really get attached. Enjoy your new baby and keep us posted. :) 142061420714208

Casper has been posted for sale for awhile now. I don't think he intends to breed her. She is posted for $1,000.

[user]

14242

[guidofatherof5]

How many hides do you offer?

[user]

I offer two hides, one on the cold side, one on the hot side.

14243

[guidofatherof5]

You must be doing something right if she feels so comfortable to coil and rest out in the open. Nicely done.

[user]

I did do something right, and that was picking the hide up and leaving her exposed haha. She did stay there for the pics though. She is not extremely flighty, but sudden movements do startle her. She is curious and but careful. Last night she crawled up to my hand and used it to escape over the top of the cage and I think I've noticed her out and about more lately, looking at me when I peek in etc. She's cool.

[Albert Clark]

Beautiful little girl!

[WarriorPrincess]

What the heck!! Where is she posted?? My baby is for sale? @Tommytradix

[Chance2Crowns]

Here if I got this right here's the link Hognose, Garter, Water & Ribbon Snakes - Page 2 - FaunaClassifieds (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=502&order=desc&page=2). If not she is on fuana classifieds for 1,000$.

[Albert Clark]

What the heck!! Where is she posted?? My baby is for sale? @Tommytradix Yep! I was going to pick her up from Mike but i don't have a male to pair her up to. That was the biggest drawback for me. Steven Bol has males right now and they are some very high quality males that would go great with her.

[Tommytradix]

For Sale The only Albino NW Garter known to exist - FaunaClassifieds (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=601182)

[user]

Update time. She is about an inch bigger maybe more. Thing is she hasn't eaten for like a week from eating every other day or more. I haven't seen her eyes blue over. I notice a darker spot near where the adrenals are in this pic. When i pinch her body gently and run her between my fingers I can feel it pass between my finger tips. I don't know if this is a organ or blockage. Besides that she's fine. Active and curious. I've offered her different types of slugs, and earth worms. Tomorrow I'll try to find one of her more preferred slugs and try that again.
http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o774/foxrun402/Snake-Anatomy-BugsInTheNews_zpse20f5253.jpg

[Albert Clark]

This is the time of year most garters slow down eating and some stop altogether in preparation for brumation. What temperatures are you providing for her? Warm side, cool side, and ambient and hot spot? It might be time to lower the temps all around. Just be sure if you do lower the temps make sure she hasn't eaten in at least two weeks prior.
The dark spot near the adrenals, is there any swelling? Thanks for the anatomical illustration!

[Tommytradix]

I would keep the ambient temp above 80°F and try not to let the humudity go below 50% my experience with babies and juveniles is they eat all winter long if the temps and humidity are right. I cool my adults in November and keep them in until February.
I'm not sure what the dark spot is. Could you possibly get a photo of it.

[Albert Clark]

It's their natural internal clock telling them it's time to brumate. It's one of the first things to look at after ruling out injury and illness. Babies and juveniles that are not feeding are probably best cooled for a short period maybe 2 months. Steven Bol has just had a article published on his website where he chronicles this issue with baby and juvenile garter snakes. Steven Bol Garter Snakes is the website. He also revisits his research on hibernation/ brumation in garter snakes. The whole publication is dedicated to brumation.

[user]

I think it's actually just her adrenal thingy. I just fed her the main type of slug she was eating that she refused a couple of days ago and she ate it really fast. I have her temp in the 80-85 range in the hot area. There is no swelling or anything but I'm going to watch to make sure. Here is picture from the end of November.
14329

[Albert Clark]

There is also the fact that a garter that is refusing live food is either already full, injured, ill, or ready to brumate. In the wild they have to brumate regardless of their age. And the weak ones usually don't pull through.
In captivity, where we control their enviornment, temps, humidity and such therefore its rather unnatural for them. They do adapt however.

[user]

Thank you Albert for the useful info on brumation and the way to the study. Although I read that neonates don't go into brumation during winter, but that didn't link a study, I wondered how they'd possibly pull through up here without it. Right now there is freezing rain. It makes sense that they might brumate to escape that weather and winter months. If she stops eating again for an extended period I may try to do what you said but it also makes me nervous to try. Really good info.

[Eddie]

I've never brumated a baby or neonate. I don't even brumate all my adults,

[WarriorPrincess]

Just found the ad again. My baby has been discounted.:p He said something about a male being found in the ad yet I don't understand who found it. Kinda unclear to me. T neg vs T pos
I don't really know what that all means. And I believe he's wrong on the age. October she was 5 not 4 If I'm recalling events right. I'd have to look back on my dates in my post to be sure. But I'm too tired to do it tonight. Anyway here's the latest post of Casper I could find.

For Sale Albino NW Garter - FaunaClassifieds (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=604157)

[Albert Clark]

Thank you Albert for the useful info on brumation and the way to the study. Although I read that neonates don't go into brumation during winter, but that didn't link a study, I wondered how they'd possibly pull through up here without it. Right now there is freezing rain. It makes sense that they might brumate to escape that weather and winter months. If she stops eating again for an extended period I may try to do what you said but it also makes me nervous to try. Really good info.. Thanks. YW. This is information on a new study and research by one of the top garter snake breeders in the world (Steven Bol). As captives, young and juvenile garters are not routinely brumated however Steven has been doing it in captivity. He talks specifically on how difficult a choice it is to brumate the younger individuals. Certainly if you don't feel comfortable with it you can wait out the youngster's fasting by keeping your temps stable. Then also by offering food on a regular basis maybe sticking to live as more of a enticing option. It is natural for them to fast and or refuse food at this time of year.

[user]

Just found the ad again. My baby has been discounted.:p He said something about a male being found in the ad yet I don't understand who found it. Kinda unclear to me. T neg vs T pos
I don't really know what that all means. And I believe he's wrong on the age. October she was 5 not 4 If I'm recalling events right. I'd have to look back on my dates in my post to be sure. But I'm too tired to do it tonight. Anyway here's the latest post of Casper I could find.

For Sale Albino NW Garter - FaunaClassifieds (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=604157) How do you feel about Casper being for sale? She's expensive, that's good. lol.

[user]

1433014331

[guidofatherof5]

Nice.

[Jeff B]

Looks like she is getting great care. I wouldn't change a thing, don't panic if she doesn't eat for a week or two and I agree with Tommy and Ed, it is not necessary to brumate. In fact it is much more risky for a young snake to be put through brumation, since they do not have the energy reserves built up. As Tommy said, keep that humidity up over winter since your house will tend to drop in humidity. You can keep a moist paper towel on the warm side and replace it every few days to keep humidity up or reduce the air circulation in the tub to raise humidity.
You are lucky to get so much help from Steve, what a great guy, huh? Good thing he is retired too, lol.

[user]

Thanks. Yes she didn't eat again for a few days but I offered her a specific species of slug and she ate it so fast. She only likes one specific species of slug and refuses to eat anything else so I'm going to keep these on hand all the time now. Picky eater dayum. Steve is definitely the man he gave me the hook up and TONS of advice.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks. Yes she didn't eat again for a few days but I offered her a specific species of slug and she ate it so fast. She only likes one specific species of slug and refuses to eat anything else so I'm going to keep these on hand all the time now. Picky eater dayum. Steve is definitely the man he gave me the hook up and TONS of advice.

Thank you for your kind words Jeff B and user. I am fortunate to be retired and have time to try and help where I can.

[Jeff B]

Hey Steve wasn't knocking the retired...more like envious...big time buddy!!!lol
You are very lucky you were able to retire at a young age and have hobbies.
You have contributed greatly to the garter community and helped many, many people, something I am sure you did in your prior career as well.

[guidofatherof5]

Hey Steve wasn't knocking the retired...more like envious...big time buddy!!!lol
You are very lucky you were able to retire at a young age and have hobbies.
You have contributed greatly to the garter community and helped many, many people, something I am sure you did in your prior career as well.

Never though you were knocking me being retired. I had a blessed career in Law Enforcement which allowed me to retire at 51 years old. My retirement has been a blessing also as I get time with my kids before they head out into their own lives. All-in-all I've lived a wonderful life.

[user]

https://imgur.com/a/s5Fnr

Can't link imgs keeps giving me errors from URL and direct upload to forum. The pictures do not capture her appearance in person. She has shed 3 times. I have handled her too and she has gotten used to it already and likes exploring. Gotta keep those slow movements and not move stuff over her head.

She is a good eater most of the time.

She's developing orange flecks on her side. She has developed/deepened purples, oranges, pinks, different shades of tan. She coo.

[KRS4771]

She is really pretty!

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking little scrub.

[user]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gMPsnyNanI

Video of Luna (albino snek) around 6 months after finding her

[guidofatherof5]

Luna is a great looking T+ albino.

[user]

Luna is a great looking T+ albino.

Thank you! That video was from today, about 45 minutes ago.

Also my brother just found this snake outside. I think it's a female Northwestern, very cool.
https://i.imgur.com/Af4cCOo.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Yes, very cool. Northwesterns are the bomb.

[user]

Yes, very cool. Northwesterns are the bomb.

Yeah they are. So many different colors of Northwestern.

I went to the wetlands, after posting here, for a while and caught this (my brother spotted it lol): https://imgur.com/a/FDITw
A Oregon Common Garter Snake (I think). Very pretty and red, maybe around 15 inches or so. I think it also may have been female but I'm unsure.

* In this same area years ago, I found a massive common garter, well over 3 feet, very fatty. That was awesome.

[user]

14607

Testing if I can post pictures again.

*Woohoo

[Eddie]

Nice red spot!!

[Albert Clark]

Thanks for the updates! Always happy to hear about the Northwesterns. Grats.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Ahhhhhh!!!! That looks so much like mine. Found him in 2012 in my garden near Eugene! Still alive and well. 😊

[user]

Ahhhhhh!!!! That looks so much like mine. Found him in 2012 in my garden near Eugene! Still alive and well. 😊

Wow, they do look very similar. Your guy has really nice patterning and a nice dorsal stripe. We did find them kinda close to each other.

[user]

Okay I have a question about my snakey here.

She was eating slugs, very readily. And I started her on frozen thawed pinkies, about a month ago, but 2 weeks ago she shed and since then has not really eaten at all, totally uninterested in pinkies. She struck a tiny slug once about a week ago but didn't take it and ran away right after striking it. She did eat that tiny slug overnight though, but hasn't eaten anything since.

I took her to the vet (who aren't really as experienced as the users on this forum TBH) just to get a second opinion on if she had an impaction, which me and the vet don't think she has. To check for this the vet just looked at her and for a bulge and said she did not, which I also did. Also, when I checked I pinched her very gently between my fingers and felt her belly as she slithered through. I also used a very strong flashlight to shine though her body and look for dark spots, I didn't see any dark spots that I thought were not organs.

Could also be parasites but I have no feces to get tested since she has stopped eating.

Her temps are 80-85f hotspot heated by a pad, and ~60-70f cold spot. She does not have a lamp, she has paper towel substrate and a hide, as well as water. She's in a tub setup.

She seems more timid than she was before she stopped eating but I still notice her crawling around her cage sometimes exploring.

I read on another thread here, a comment made by gregmonsta (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/gregmonsta.html) in 2010:


You have two options -
Some garters do snap out of it with raised temps and
persisting to try a variety of foods. You can order lobworms here - Worms Direct UK - worms for fishing, fishing bait, worms for bait, Dendrobaena for fishing, fishing bait wholesalers (http://www.wormsdirectuk.co.uk/acatalog/Lobworms.html)

Or put here down for a month to help reset her appetite.

With a juvenile I would see brumation as a last resort. But then, I've not had a juvenile go off food at this time of year before.

Another thing is that I've felt the season change here as it's raining and getting colder. Maybe she feels that too and is refusing food because of that.

So I'm pretty much thinking I will raise the temps a little, maybe offer her live fish, and add full spectrum/heat lamp lighting to her enclosure (even though I've read it's not necessary, I've also read it actually is very beneficial). I will also get a actual glass cage for her. I think it's probably time to invest in a more naturalistic garter setup with light and fake plants, etc, I've read of that helping their attitude and appetite as well.

So if anyone has any advice or thinks I'm doing anything wrong, let me know.

[Eddie]

I would slowly drop the temps over the next couple of weeks then turn it off completely for a month or so. Then bring the temps back up and offer food. Usually doe the trick.
Good luck!

[user]

I would slowly drop the temps over the next couple of weeks then turn it off completely for a month or so. Then bring the temps back up and offer food. Usually doe the trick.
Good luck!

Interesting, thank you for the reply. I will do this in a few days if she continues to refuse food. She ate like 1 tiny slug since I last posted, but has been stingy since. Also, it's weird that when you leave slugs in there for ~24 hours they quite literally smell like fish. It makes me think about how they are literally mollusks. But yeah, thanks man. I'll try your advice if her stinginess persists for 2-5 more days. I fed her a lot of food before she started to refuse, and she is still active and exploratory, so a couple more days couldn't hurt I don't think.

Edit: Would you continue to offer her food during the month of brumation or would you simply leave her be?

[Eddie]

I would not offer food during brumation