Dehydrated and under weight, help plz

[cjbulloch]

Long story short...

have taken on a garter snake who I don't have much history on.

m/f=?popped looks to be female
2ft in length
2.5 months ago weighed 80g
got treated for mites with frontline
would not eat in the 2 months (in someone elses care)
Did not shed in this time. Lost weight, is 38g.

Weights 38g -has been in my care for 2 weeks now, has not lost any more
Has been getting tube fed rehydration salts mixed with water at 1ml everyday
Has started to pass very thin urates 3 times in the past 5 days
Its belly scales are smooth and glossy but its ventral scales are all rough and dry. There is excess skin but is only noticeable when pinched.

I'm worried it'll die if fed and is still dehydrated.

How long will i have to keep giving the rehydration fluids?
When should I start to feed?

Has seen vet, dont know whats wrong

Set up with me - 15 litre rub, temps measure with ir gun 27 hot spot 22 cool, on stated heat mat, for the first week hide had spag moss misted when it dryed, on kitchen roll now.

Could anyone identify the morph? It was fed 24 hours ago a liquid solution with chicken, calcium, liver, heart, rehydration salts and fish oil, Still Alive, what do i do next???
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[cjbulloch]

Still Alive, hope someone can give advice on what to do next...

[Majorica]

There is also a FB garter snakes group if you are on FB, you could ask there too.

[guidofatherof5]

It certainly looks under weight with a head to body comparison. It is a female, I would guess T. s. concinnus (Red-spotted garter snake) Try some lob worms or pinky mice. Was a fecal float done? Much tongue flicking? Movement? Alertness?

[Albert Clark]

What! The vet doesn't know what's wrong with the snake? Was this an exotic vet? I think you should start to give the snake warm soaks every other day. They can take in quite a bit of fluid through the cloaca. The tube feedings should consist of not salts but a powdered supplement such as reptiboost or carnivore care that is specifically geared to be nutritionally complete when mixed with water. And it is weight based and therefore more specific. However the fecal float will be telling and is very important as Steve said. Do you know if this snake was captive bred and born or a wild caught individual?

[Eddie]

Oregon red spot like Steve said. Most vets have no clue when it comes to snakes. I'm not surprised at all that the vet was clueless. Keep it warm and soak it like Albert said. I would try earth worms and night crawlers and see if it eats. It is not a youngster in my opinion. Good luck with it. Thats my second favorite subspecies.
Ed

[cjbulloch]

Thanks for the replies, been on the edge of my seat the last few days, really want her to pull through, she is very alert, flickering tongue whenever i hold her and moving around like normal, unfortunately vets couldnt get a fecal as she didnt eat for the 2 months she was in their care (was at animal rehoming centre with cat and dog vets!) and must have emptied her bladder before they got her, shes only just started producing very thin urates a few days ago in my care, was on the phone to them for 3 weeks before i got her, trying to get them to try rehydration methods before trying feeding but they would not listen to me, she never did eat for them anyway and the notes on her care they gave me were ridiculous, the only useful info was she was being kept at 24 degrees celcius, which is obviously too low. Thanks for the identification, i did some researched and think the same. The "salts" contain dextrose monohydrate, sodium chloride, potassium chloride, sodium citrate dihydrate and citric acid anhydrous, its for humans but in the uk there is is not much to choose from. I dont think she is young either, her head is huge compared to her body and with the amount of loose skin on her i was actually expecting her to die in the care of the rehoming centre. The snake must be captive bought as they are not found in the wild over here. The original story is she was found by a member of the public who took her to their local cat and dog vet, who then gave her to the rehoming centre to deal with, but all concerned think the member of the public was actually the original owner.

[cjbulloch]

Have a feeling its been longer than 2 months since she last ate, came across a western hognose that hadnt ate in at least 6 months, she died 48 hours after i fed her. :( I have 2 ball pythons, 4 corn snakes and two crested geckos, most of which are rescues.

[Majorica]

Oh no, I hope you can save her.

[cjbulloch]

She just took a pinkie within a second of me offering it to her!!!! Cant believe it! Also, she pooped the liquid mix i gave her out (can see little pile of urates powdered) so confident she will be able to digest this meal too. Never been so happy to see poop and feeding! 2 months that rehoming centre had her and she didnt eat, think my theory about dehydration may have been right, go the info form here Emaciation (Starvation) Protocol (http://www.anapsid.org/emaciation.html) Fluids and Fluid Therapy in Reptiles (http://www.anapsid.org/fluids.html)

[guidofatherof5]

Great update, it put a big smile on my face. Take it slow on the food at first(I'm sure you're aware of that) Keep checking the poop and give her a big soaking dish. Give some lob worms a try, they will aid in hydration. Worms are very good food.
I know you are busy but how is the tongue flicking and overall movement of the snake? Alertness?

[Albert Clark]

Good job, the salts Melissa Kaplan is referring to are the "prepared hypotonic and hypertonic fluids" that are contained in intravenous solutions. When you mentioned that you were giving "salts mixed with water" it was unclear how you were doing that. Definitely ringers lactate, 0.9% sodium chloride, and d5w .45% sodium chloride are acceptable fluid replacements. The cloaca is like a sponge when it comes to soaking the animal especially if the snake is strong enough to hold their heads above water and they are alert. Rehydration definitely is the way to go before attempting to get the animal to take semi solid or solid foods also. Worms and pinkies are a good place to begin once rehydration ( fluids) is established first.

[cjbulloch]

Hey thanks very much guys, shes doing well, thermoregulating now and even pooped properly yesterday too, so grateful for all your help, was so worried about her. Im going to try feed her a pinkie twice a week, every wednesday and saturday evening/sunday morning. Her scales feel much better than what they did at first. Was at a reptile expo yesterday and got to speak with a dutch guy called Steven Bol and got his email address which is great to have, he specialises in garters. Next thing to wait on now is her shedding, hopefully wouldnt be too bad.

[guidofatherof5]

You spoke to a good person and certainly an expert in garter snakes.