Dingleberry

[Stefan-A]

I noticed while taking a picture that my male has a weird problem I hadn't come across anywhere before: Feces get stuck to the scales around the cloaka. I know it's going to cause, or might already have caused an infection in that area. Once the poo dries it becomes really hard and won't come off with water.

It looks nastier in the picture below, than in reality, but it's still bad. The big whitish chunk came off almost by itself seconds later.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/panicce1.jpg


The snake is active and has been eating fine. The only cause that comes to mind, is a partial impaction or complications from a failed shed, but it hasn't even had a partially failed shed since winter, when the humidity occasionally dropped below 30%.

Couldn't get a hold of a vet that could treat reptiles anywhere near here, but I'm going to call one some 60km away that specializes in them first thing on Monday morning. Yeah, I knew something was going to happen to my snakes. Everything was going too smoothly. :(

[Lulu Bennett]

that does look very nasty!! i am very interested to find out what is actually wrong and what the cause is. im sure it will be fine and he/she will be fine but i am sending you my love not that it will do much good....

[adamanteus]

I've seen that before Stefan, if you give him a thorough soak and a bath, then raise the humidity a little it may clear itself up.

[Stefan-A]

Any idea what the cause might be?

[adamanteus]

Any idea what the cause might be?

Strangely, dehydration would be the first suspect.:confused:

[Stefan-A]

Any possible reasons for dehydration that I should be looking out for?

[adamanteus]

Any possible reasons for dehydration that I should be looking out for?

It's a weird one, isn't it? When I've seen this before it's always been in wild-caught or poorly cared for snakes, which is obviously not the case here. Does he use the water bowl much? I dare say there are other causes than dehydration that I've never encountered.

[Stefan-A]

No, he just drinks from it, as does the female. Neither of my snakes swim or spend time in the water.

[adamanteus]

You could try just raising the humidity a little once you have him cleaned up. It doesn't look like impaction to me, it's uric crystals, isn't it?

[Stefan-A]

That's what it looks like, yes.

Coincidentally, I did give him a bath to see if more of it would come off before I started this thread. I also wiped off the area with diluted betadine, don't know if it was necessary or the right thing to do.

[adamanteus]

I also wiped off the area with diluted betadine, don't know if it was necessary or the right thing to do.

Couldn't hurt. Once he's all cleaned up, let us know if he looks "normal" underneath that stuff.

[Stefan-A]

Couldn't get all of it off, it was pretty well stuck to the scales. I didn't want to use "force" or start scratching it off, I just rubbed off as much as I could.

[adamanteus]

You could try the "wet-bag" overnight?

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, I guess that couldn't hurt.

[drache]

also perhaps giving a damp box?

[Stefan-A]

Okay, so the advice I got today was pretty much what was given here; Raise the humidity, clean the area as thoroughly as possible and try to keep it clean until the next time it sheds, at which point it should come off with the old skin. "Call me if it gets worse." Apparently there's no need to be concerned as the snake seems to be otherwise fine. :rolleyes:

[adamanteus]

Sounds good, Stefan. He'll be fine, I'm sure. Good luck.:)

[Stefan-A]

I'm skeptical towards phone diagnoses, to say the least, but lets see what happens.

[adamanteus]

I don't think you have much need to be concerned either, Stefan. It's only a mucky bum! I'm sure it will clear itself up on his next slough.

[Stefan-A]

OK, so the little guy shed a couple of days ago, here's the picture I took right after the shed. The scales seem to have taken a little bit of damage, but otherwise it looks better than I had expected. Again, it looks a bit nastier in the picture than in real life.

It's going to be interesting to see if poo will keep sticking to the scales or not, now that I've raised the humidity a bit. Fed him today, wouldn't take mice but did take a fish (bleak).

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/post-shed-e11.jpg

[adamanteus]

Doesn't look too bad now, Stefan. I guess the scarring will gradually decrease with subsequent sloughs.

[Stefan-A]

I sure hope so.

Wow, there I go stating the obvious again. :rolleyes:

[adamanteus]

Well, I hope so too, Stefan! I've seen similar stuff before on all sorts of snakes, and it always seems to get gradually better and scarring reduces with time.

[Cazador]

Hello gentlemen,
Putting a bit of mineral oil on a q-tip, then rubbing it thorougly on/around (and possibly under, if you're able to manage it) the cloacal scale will help to soften and remove the crystal. It also helps to soften future crystals and should ease their passage.
In case you haven't already started from "ground zero," be sure to wash and disinfect the water dish (use bleach or your favorite bacteriacidal solution). You might even replace the normal water dish for a few days with a small bowl or lid with a water/electrolyte/vitamin solution. The only reason I suggest a small container is so that you don't have to use as much electrolyte/vitamin solution. Also, double-check the temperature of the enclosure's floor. Sometimes overheating can "bake" feces/urates and lead to problems. Glad you and your snakes are still around, Stefan, and I'm sure all will turn out well. Cheers,
Rick

[Stefan-A]

Thank you, Rick. :) And welcome back.

I throw the water dish in the dishwasher every time I clean it, should be effective enough? I have been having a bit of problems keeping the temperature below 28 degrees during the hottest weeks, but the floor itself is room temperature, I don't heat it from below.

Are there any big no-nos I should watch out for?

[Stefan-A]

The snake is no more!
It has ceased to be!
It's expired and gone to meet its maker!
It is a late snake! It's a stiff!
Bereft of life, it rests in peace!
If it wasn't already off to the Finnish Food Safety Authority for an autopsy, it would be pushing up the daisies!
It's rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible!

This is an ex-snake.


Might seem like I'm taking it lightly, but I'm definitely not. We never found out the cause of the dehydration. It fed normally and was active up until this friday, when I went home for the weekend. When I returned late on Sunday evening, it was really lethargic and unresponsive. It was pretty limp and it was losing control of motor functions. Monday morning it died. My main suspect is still an impaction of some kind.

[enigma200316]

sorry to hear that mate, its always hard when you lose a pet,chin-up though Stefan........:)

[Snaky]

Sorry about your loss... it's indeed frustrating to lose a snake and not knowing the cause, I've also had that before.

[adamanteus]

Stefan, what can I say? I'm gutted for you. Really sorry.:(:(

[drache]

oh Stefan
that so sucks
I'm sorry

[Elliot]

Sorry Stefan.:(

[Josh]

crap man
sorry for ya:(:(:(:(:(

[Stefan-A]

Thanks for your support, guys.

[Lori P]

Stephan, so sorry for the loss of the snake. Did you really send it off for a necropsy? Let us know the results...

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, and I will.

[Spiritwolf]

I would like to know the results of the necropsy too. What you experienced sounds somewhat similar to what I observed in a baby I recently lost. While the baby didn't have any dingleberry problem, it showed anorexia and unexplained dehydration despite having plenty of water, a heated area available, etc. This youngster was born August 2, so it had been feeding well and doing fine for quite a while too, the problem struck quite suddenly and the baby died less than 48 hrs after it showed the first signs that something wasn't right. (Listlessness was the first indication, refusal to eat, then the pronounced dehydration and death). There were no other signs of any kind of problem before the sudden illness.

This baby was born to a wild-caught rescue mother, I don't know if that could be a factor or not. The rest of the family is in great shape (including the other babies, although I now of course, am a bit worried that somebody else will get sick after this one did.)

[Stefan-A]

I completely forgot to update this, got the results earlier this week. Apparently, the cause of death was renal failure (chronic?) and there were signs of dehydration, hyperuricemia and septicemia. No mentions of any cysts/tumors or specific sources of the septicemia. :confused:

At least the crypto test came back negative.

I'm trying to read up on the subject right now, unfortunately I don't know how much of what applies to humans also applies to reptiles. Most sources seem to focus on dietary issues.

[Lori P]

Interesting... there are probably so many reasons for renal failure in reptiles too... could even have been congenital. It's always good to have an answer, even if that answer leads to more questions, lol.

[Stefan-A]

Found one possible cause, but I think it's still unlikely. There was a period a few months ago, when I had difficulties controlling the temperature in the terrarium, but I solved that problem almost immediately. Apparently too high temperatures combined with over-feeding could cause kidney failure, but the little guy was on a 2:1 mouse/fish diet and got about 10% of his body weight in food per week.

[Lori P]

I wouldn't think that a short term temp flux would have caused it. I would think it would have to be a long term situation. But who knows. You can second quess yourself to distraction.