Stunted growth of Checkered garters

[KeyLa]

Hi folks,

Recently I was looking at a few Checkered Garters that were actually born in a rescue centre. The snakes now are a little over 1000 days old and they are still tiny - the male is about 6 inches and the 2 females maybe round 8-9 inches. They have been kept in a vivarium without extra heating but in a warm room (a reptile room in the UK) and fed exclusively on cut up pinkies.

I was just wondering what the future would be for these little guys? If given proper care, are they ever likely to reach an average size for their species or will their size never catch up?

Thanks.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like a roll of the dice on what might happen but certainly worth it for the snakes. They are very small for almost 3 years old. They may always stay smaller but other than that they should be fine. Surviving 1000 days is a tribute to their survival chances.

[KeyLa]

Thanks for your reply.

They actually looked very healthy, apart from their small size - very active, bright colours. Gorgeous little things.

Has anyone ever heard of stunted growth over such a long period? Is there a "cut off" point in terms of age when they will stop growing or does the gene become expressed once the snake is in better conditions?

[guidofatherof5]

Garters grow throughout their lifetime.

[KeyLa]

Can I ask what is the smallest you have seen an adult male T. Marcianus? I actually went into the rescue centre to get a King, Milk or Corn but the garters were so adorable, I am considering getting one instead or as well.

[Albert Clark]

Can I ask what is the smallest you have seen an adult male T. Marcianus? I actually went into the rescue centre to get a King, Milk or Corn but the garters were so adorable, I am considering getting one instead or as well. Welcome to the forum K! It's a sad state of affairs that those checkereds are so small at the age of 3 yrs old. I think most of their problem is that they are nutritionally deficient by being fed only pink mice throughout their lives. Do you know if they are receiving a vitamin supplement with that? Because that would be the appropriate thing to do if they are solely on pinkies. Another consideration would be to vary the diet with f/t fish, silversides cut up, live guppies, or fresh fish cut up. Pinky mice are about 90% fluid with 0 to 5% calcium. Calcium is needed for bone development and is a essential nutrient for young, developing animals and normal growth. I had a albino checkered garter that I received from a person who was only feeding the snake pinkies coincidentally. The animal was grossly underweight and nutritionally deficient, was somewhat aggressive due to the poor state of health. The person wanted to get rid of the animal bc every time she went to pick the animal up, the snake would bite. It was doing that in my opinion, bc the snake was being starved. This garter was only a year old but was about 9 inches and 14 grams. The snake also had a bad shed and had a retained tail tip that was already necrotic and black in color. I actually had to take the animal to the vet and it took antibiotics and a aggressive feeding schedule to get the snake back to health. Today he is thriving and feeding on f/t hairless hopper mice, f/t rat pinks and a varied diet. Recently he fathered a litter, and has grown to be a very well nourished , active checkered garter.

[Tommytradix]

Pinky:12% crude protein, 4.72% crude fat, 0.2% crude fiber, 80% moisture
Fuzzy:14% crude protein, 14% crude fat, 0.2% crude fiber, 69% moisture
Hopper:17% crude protein, 8% crude fat, 0.4% crude fiber, 71% moisture
Adult:17% crude protein, 7% crude fat, 0.3% crude fiber, 70% moisture


couldnt really find anything on calcium but ill keep looking. i used to have a chart that gave levels of everything.

[Tommytradix]

Nutrition Content (http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html)

Link Nutrition & Sizing (http://www.reptilinks.com/the-links/)

[Tommytradix]

Prey species
n
DM
%
Crude Protein
%
CrudeFat
%
Ash
%


Gross
energy
kcal/g






Mouse, domestic
Mus domesticus
287
19.1
64.2
17.0
9.7
4.87ª
Neonatal, <3 g


Mouse, domestic
Mus domesticus
292
18.2
44.2
30.1
8.5
6.65ª
Juvenile, 3-10 g


Mouse, domestic
Mus domesticus
108
32.7
55.8
23.6
11.8
5.25ª
Adult or >10 g

[KeyLa]

Thanks for your response. From what I understand, they have never been fed anything other than pinkies and with no supplements.

In fairness to the rescue centre, I think they are very good at what they do, they just are not very knowledgeable with reptiles and probably had no idea how to raise neonate snakes.

Still tempted to get one. If I knew for a fact it wouldn't grow much longer than say 30 centimeters, I would snap one up right now. But if I was going to get larger than 60 centimeters, I would probably lean more towards getting one of their kings/corns/milks/rats.

Garters were my first snakes though, so I have a big soft spot for them.

[Tommytradix]

thats all i could find on mice lol they have calcium its just not that much. i never had a problem feeding only pinks until they are big enough for the larger prey. they grew fine. they grew better than other diets ive used except rodents with every few feedings being fish with a multibitamin supplement that 50/50 calcium. when i raised a few babies on worms for 6 months they were significantlly smaller in size and muscle density. i dusted calcium every other feeding too. i also raised a few on just various types of fish with dusting calcium. a couple of the fish eaters devoloped problems and some even died within 6 months of the all fish diet. the only downside ive seen from feeding them pinkies and as they grow increase the size of the rodent was they would store extra fat and if not fed in moderation you can end up with a very fat and obese garter lol its one of those things where you gotta adjust until you find the right regimine that work for your garter.

i agree, they are very small for 3yrs old. my garters are that big at a month old. there is usually one runt in every litter sometimes more and sometimes there wont be one. it would depend on litter size. more babies more chances of deformed/runts.

[guidofatherof5]

Garters are the best kept secret in the snake hobby. Smart, engaging and always fun to work with. Well, unless one decides to sling musk in your face.:D

[Tommytradix]

its not the size of the snake its...........haha

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Do you know how many and how often they are fed? A rescue center probably don't feed as many pinks as we do to grow ours fast. If they only gave them 1 pink a week they wouldn't grow fast at all. Alot of people think that garters are like other snakes, but they have a higher metabolism than most.
thanks for your response. From what i understand, they have never been fed anything other than pinkies and with no supplements.

In fairness to the rescue centre, i think they are very good at what they do, they just are not very knowledgeable with reptiles and probably had no idea how to raise neonate snakes.

Still tempted to get one. If i knew for a fact it wouldn't grow much longer than say 30 centimeters, i would snap one up right now. But if i was going to get larger than 60 centimeters, i would probably lean more towards getting one of their kings/corns/milks/rats.

Garters were my first snakes though, so i have a big soft spot for them.

[KeyLa]

IIRC they said they were fed once per week. I think they were on the same on the same feeding schedule as the rest of their rescues (majority pantherophis, a couple royals, a gopher etc) so I assume they are on a "one rodent per week" schedule.