Making a west coast trip.

[Hybrid]

Hey all, mostly a lurker here but I'm heading to west coast with the new lady and wanted to share some field herping with her. I only own ball pythons these days but she has really taken to the reptile lifestyle and loves the idea of flipping stuff for field looks at pretty snakes.

Would love some ideas on where to look for some really nice California Red sided as we have about 2 weeks to travel and may head up to Washington with a stop in Oregon for other pretty morphs. Would love to see some Puget Sound blues too.

It's a big trip and I'm not local obviously to know where I'd be successful.

Any help appreciated.

[Albert Clark]

Welcome Hy, the Marin county and the Humboldt county areas in beautiful California ( actually Northern California) are just a few of the main locales where you would be assured to run into the Calif.red sided garter. You will have to be careful not to mistakenly collect the San Francisco garter bc they are federally protected. Be careful bc inspectors and Parks officers will be watching. It might help to snatch up a hunting license ahead of time. The blue Pugets are also protected but a hunting license will help you there also. i think the applicaion fee is a 50.00 charge, well worth it. The area in Washington State is Pierce county where the Pugets abound.

[Hybrid]

Thanks for the great advice. I have field hunted since I was a kid. Didn't even think about a license. Being an adult sucks. I'll try to figure that stuff out.

[SheffieldReptiles]

You can't collect any garters in the state of Washington. So you can look for them but can't remove them from the area. And there is no license or application to be able to collect them either.

Hunter

[Albert Clark]

You can't collect any garters in the state of Washington. So you can look for them but can't remove them from the area. And there is no license or application to be able to collect them either.

Hunter
I just spoke to a resident of Washington State recently and they relayed the information about the hunting license and being able to field collect specimens. However there is a limit to how many individuals you can obtain. Unless I misunderstood him. As a matter of fact he is a garter snake breeder.

[guidofatherof5]

I do believe Hunter is correct. Been that way for a few years now. I'll give WA DNR a call later this morning and get it straight from them to clarify the situation.

[Albert Clark]

Okay, cool. Pugets are protected at the state level so it's not a federally protected species. I believe they can be collected for research purposes and educational venues as long as you have a valid hunting license. Like I said , this is what I understood but I could certainly stand corrected.

[Albert Clark]

Thanks Steve!

[guidofatherof5]

About an hour ago I spoke to Jim Coffin of the Washington Fish and Wildlife Program. Special permits are required for collection(scientific collection) of any native species (not given out too often and not to the general public). He sited Code WAC 232-12-064 Hope this helps.

Scientific Collection Permits | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=232-12-064 (http://wdfw.wa.gov/licensing/scp/)

[Albert Clark]

Thanks again. Very helpful. So , it's a permit and not a hunting license that's required. Belonging to a herpetological society which are usually affiliated with colleges and universities might suffice as a scientific collection. Especially the ones with herpetological or veterinary programs. Possibly?

[SheffieldReptiles]

Anyone in Washington state who attempts to sell you T. Elegans, T. Ordinoides, T. s. fitchi, or T. s. pickeringii is doing so illegally. Even if we are legally possessing them (real gray area on legal ownership) we can't sell them or their offspring.

Hunter

[Albert Clark]

Wait a minute, first you outlined that there was no way to obtain specimens from the state of Washington of T.s.pickeringi. Steve researched the laws and found that there is certain legal criteria to obtain w/c or collected individuals. No one is trying to do anything illegal or has done anything illegal in my neck of the woods. Op asked for specific locations to collect T.s infernalis as well as T.s pickeringii and I gave the information as I thought was appropriate. Actually Steve contacted the the appropriate agency and got the exact requirements for the op. The law does have specific criteria in Washington state for such so I am not sure about any "gray area".

[SheffieldReptiles]

Al,
I was saying you can't keep wild garters from Washington for the average garter keeper. Scientific collection which Steve is 100% correct about, doesn't apply to most of us. But the legality of anyone in Washington trying to sell you the previously listed garters still is illegal. The gray area I was talking about is due to the fact that in the laws there is written some ways you can be able to possess them, but you have to have a large amount of documentation. And you still can't sell them or their babies even though you legally brought them into the state.

[Albert Clark]

Well, now the op is well informed and well armed with the information posted and researched. We all have some new information on the Washington state Puget sound garter snake as it relates to current legislation put forth by the Fish and wildlife department.

[joeysgreen]

If you're just looking to field herp and not collect, my advice is to spend your mornings (most of the year by 10am it's too hot and the garters are hidden away) at any wetland that has paths or short vegetation nearby. Rock piles near these waterways are also a blessing. The short vegetation isn't a necessity for garters, but more so you have a chance at seeing them.

[Albert Clark]

Anyone in Washington state who attempts to sell you T. Elegans, T. Ordinoides, T. s. fitchi, or T. s. pickeringii is doing so illegally. Even if we are legally possessing them (real gray area on legal ownership) we can't sell them or their offspring.

Hunter

As a matter of fact, no one was ever talking about selling anything so... Op was asking about collecting while herping. He never said he was going there to sell anything so I think this statement wasn't really warranted and borders on being flawed as it relates to the op and his request for location information.

[SheffieldReptiles]

Al,
I was just throwing that information out so all would be informed. Cause it seemed as if you were receiving wrong information about garter laws in the state of Washington. If you would like to continue this conversation, please pm and we can discuss further if need be.

[Albert Clark]

Op was actually asking for locations to SEE t.s infernalis in Calif. and also to SEE t.s. Pickeringii. He never said he was looking to "collect" either sub species. That was my interpretation that he was looking to "collect" either animal. Op never qualified that collecting or bagging wild caughts was his intention. Misinterpretation on my part. Guess I read into it.

[Hybrid]

Just arrived in Kent WA. It's a cloudy overcast day. Gonna see if I can't spot something today and find a few areas to look over the next couple days. Here's hoping the area is kind to me for driving 21 hours instead of 16 to Cali.

[Albert Clark]

Just arrived in Kent WA. It's a cloudy overcast day. Gonna see if I can't spot something today and find a few areas to look over the next couple days. Here's hoping the area is kind to me for driving 21 hours instead of 16 to Cali.
Wow! I sure wish I was there. I'll be relocating to NoCal in 2017 so it won't be long. But enjoy Washington and take some nice pictures to share. Happy trails and keep us posted.

[Hybrid]

So far not much luck. A few very black with thin yellow stripes. Belly scales black as the top though. That's neat. Gonna try one more day. Really hard to hunt as most good ideal locations seem locked in by private homes. It's been a bummer. If nothing else maybe after tomorrow my luck will change as we spend two days in benton county Oregon looking for high red red spotted.

Wish me luck

[Albert Clark]

Way to go ! I wish you much luck. Those really black ones with yellow stripes could be yellow phase pugets. Hybrid, take a picture of those if you see them again.

[Tommytradix]

they also could be ordinoides.

[Hybrid]

I'll post up pictures when my girl emails me them. Lense on camera of phone is cracked. No good pictures using that.

I'm in benton county Oregon. Went anywhere I could get near water and only glimpsed a single "normal" juvenile. I need a tip for spotting the elusive red spotted Oregon garter. I'm exhausted from 4 days of hiking and hunting.

I'm heading to Cali tomorrow if I can't spot something in morning.

[Tommytradix]

you need to go near vancuvor WA for red spots

[Hybrid]

I have been basing my trip off californiaherps dot com. Pictures and the counties they found them. This is insanely more difficult than I remember as a kid. But I'm chasing beautiful morphs over the standard black snake with yellow stripes in Illinois.

Update, drove the entire coastal highway 1 in California. Stopped at several locations. Crescent city. Spotted 3 very bland California red sided. These guys are black with a yellow orange dorsal stripe and very weak red spotting. But that was 20 minutes of looking about 300 feet from the ocean. Literally across the street from ocean side parking.

I have yet to see anything from Mendocino, Sonoma and now in Marin counties. I spent all day looking for and tromping in marsh areas and lagoons. Nothing seen.

[Tommytradix]

you are less likely to find any garters past 10am. it is too hot for them. you have to go between 7am and 9am.

[Hybrid]

It's been insanely cool outside. Very foggy. I dunno how much cooler it could be. One more day of trying and I gotta return to the desert. Wish me luck