Stimulating the appetite of a picky eater

[Qwerty3159]

Hi all. I brumated my checkered garter when he went off food in December problem free, but he still doesn't have much of an appetite.
He's eaten, off the top of my head, a hopper, several mouse pinkies, two rat pinkies, and a few nightcrawlers. This sounds like a lot but it's been close to three months now.
I've tried offering him live minnows, he was hardly interested. He doesn't care for nightcrawlers either. He ate a rat pinky as well as a mouse pinky for me about two weeks ago, and nothing since. I'm concerned because he is losing weight, especially around his head and back regions. He doesn't care much for frozen thawed fish either and really has only ever taken mice readily with me.
Meanwhile, my radix is pounding food like a champ!

[guidofatherof5]

Try braining the mice. That smell seems to get them very excited about eating.

[Tommytradix]

2 weeks isnt a big deal but if you say hes not keeping his weight he may have something else going on. i would get him in the vet for a check up just to make sure. things can go downhill fast with garters.

[Qwerty3159]

Thanks guys.
I'll definitely try braining the rodents again.

It's not that he hasn't been eating for two weeks as much as that he has been scarcely eating at all for the past two months. He has eaten once in a while but he's probably only had the equivalent of three or four good meals in all of this time. He's not rapidly losing weight or anything of that nature, but he has lost a considerable amount since before his brumation.

I'm planning to pick up a food scale so I can monitor his weight and I'll try setting up a vet appointment. He's certainly not starving himself, but whatever he's doing is beginning to take a toll.

[Albert Clark]

Hey Qwert, sorry to hear about the dilemma. When you brumated him, how long did you put him down for? What was the temperature that you kept him at and when did you bring him out? Usually 60 days is enough to reset the feeding clock and 90 days is the route to go when you are conditioning for breeding? Have you ever bred him before?

[Qwerty3159]

He was put down in late December and taken up in Mid February, I think it was about 60 days. I kept him at 55-60 degrees in the basement by keeping the heat off down there.
I've never bred him but I bought him from BHB reptiles as an adult. I have no idea how old he is, but I'll have had him a year in June and he was probably bred before. He ate fuzzies and pinkies for the first couple of weeks and then regularly ate one rat pinky a week until he went off food.

[Albert Clark]

Cool... Have you noticed anything abnormal in his breathing, noisy respirations or any outward signs of illness? The weight loss seem excessive to you though, right? Is he tongue flicking and appearing alert? What about his bowel and and urate production? Anything abnormal that you noticed there?

[joeysgreen]

I have to ask because I don't see the information. What is the enclosure like? Temperature gradient etc.

[Albert Clark]

Great points there jg!

[Albert Clark]

Hey Q, hope the checkered winds up being okay. Good luck with him.

[d_virginiana]

If possible, save his next bowel movement and get a fecal float done; they are usually quite cheap and can rule out some potential issues that could cause weight loss like parasites. Just save the next poo you see in a moist paper towel and take it to the vet (you can keep it in the refrigerator for up to a day before taking it in).

[Qwerty3159]

His behavior is normal, the only thing out of the ordinary was that he was extremely active when I tool him out of brumation but I assumed that to be normal since in the wild they come out in a frenzy of activity. The weight loss doesn't seem too excessive and to me he just looks like he hasn't been eating much in a long time. It's certainly not a weight I want him at and I want to fill him out but I wouldn't go so far as to call it excessive.
His breathing and tongue flicking is fine, he's alert and responsive and does investigate some of the food items k offer him but he usually doesn't eat them. Occasionally when he's excited he makes a very, very faint clicking noose but I browsed this forum with keywords like "clicking" and found that it was a normal noise.
The cage is a 20 gallon long. 4 hides of varying sizes, two on the warm end, a paper towel tube in the center, and one on the cool end. He has aspen bedding and the temperature is about 90 directly under the bulb and it gets a bit cooler to roughly 86 or so in the general basking area. I see him basking in the hottest part somewhat often. The cage is more than long enough for him to move away if it's too warm and I verify the surface temperature with an infrared gun. If it matters at all his last shed was perfect and a month ago.

I'll be sure to save his next stool.

[Albert Clark]

Well thanks for that update and i think joey and lora both have good points. I am not going to pummel you with alot of questions at this point bc its all relative anyway. The definitive diagnosis will be up to the higher minds of science in the exotic vet. I don't want to speculate but i do wish you well with whatever decision you make. Also hope the checkered has a clean bill of health.

[Qwerty3159]

He ate a small pinky today.
I guess that's something. Tomorrow I'll get some more minnows maybe he'll like that. I'll try getting him to a vet by the end of the week.

[guidofatherof5]

If minnows are on the menu then I'd be concerned about a possible parasite infection which might explain the eating troubles. Just an idea.

[Albert Clark]

Q, it's always better to feed guppies over minnows. Especially feeding minnows over a regular period is risky. Better to use them as scenting tools rather than a direct feed. Hey, if he took a small pinky I would roll with that for now. Forget the minnows.

[Qwerty3159]

He's never eaten any live fish in my care. I've just been led to believe that live fish are more appealing and may invite a feeding response. I'd love to give him guppies or another safe fish but they don't sell them anywhere around here.
I agree though, it's better to play it safe especially since he's probably not going to eat them anyways

[Albert Clark]

He's never eaten any live fish in my care. I've just been led to believe that live fish are more appealing and may invite a feeding response. I'd love to give him guppies or another safe fish but they don't sell them anywhere around here.
I agree though, it's better to play it safe especially since he's probably not going to eat them anyways
Gotcha! I see. Yeah.

[joeysgreen]

Why are guppies always better than minnows? Minnows are more likely to be on the natural palate.

[Albert Clark]

Why are guppies always better than minnows? Minnows are more likely to be on the natural palate.
Live fish are always a risk to feed, and bc of the parasitic loads in minnows they are frowned upon as feeding option. Guppies are safer , especially ones that are captive bred. In most big box stores, minnows are overcrowded into tanks and live under very stressful conditions. Thus increasing their chances of being immunocompromised and prone to disease. Minnows are listed as one of the thiaminase containing fish which over time destroys vitamin B1 in reptiles. Same thing for goldfish, which are described as "junk food" and more of a threat to the reptiles health than minnows.

[Albert Clark]

He ate a small pinky today.
I guess that's something. Tomorrow I'll get some more minnows maybe he'll like that. I'll try getting him to a vet by the end of the week.
The other thing to consider is that undergoing a brumation period is stressful to snakes and as they emerge from it, a males main priority is to find females. Some snakes die in and during and also after brumation periods. I know you brought him out several months ago but i think as his feeding clock was reset the desire to breed may still be the overpowering instinct and i would just take that info and keep it in the back of my mind. Good luck either way.

[joeysgreen]

Albert, you'll win me over any time you suggest captive bred (guppies) are better than wild-caught food sources.

[Albert Clark]

Fresh fish from the market is another alternative and works perfectly for all my garters. That has risks also but less so.

[Qwerty3159]

Sorry for not replying or giving an update sooner I have been really busy lately. He ate six very small pinkies over the weekend and then yesterday evening he ate a hairless hopper! I hope the hunger spell is over.
http://i.imgur.com/KFUu7r7.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Great update. Stoke that furnace. :D

[Albert Clark]

Congrats Q! He came out of his refusal mode and gave in to the hunger. Why don't you consider a girlfriend for him soon. Lol

[Qwerty3159]

I've thought about it but I'm not really sure I want to breed anything quite yet.
A male companion, however, isn't out of the question.