ID help?

[stray13]

https://66.media.tumblr.com/b21a4d71291ee524775161360a3ac6a9/tumblr_o6yxxgsvvj1ue45oyo1_1280.jpghttps://66.media.tumblr.com/dd1292317ea980d78a9ea716386e2a9d/tumblr_o6yxxgsvvj1ue45oyo3_1280.jpghttps://66.media.tumblr.com/3dab75bb5ef86c8a1dbb3d97964cdc4b/tumblr_o6yxxgsvvj1ue45oyo5_1280.jpghttps://67.media.tumblr.com/15d416f8823b813f5ab6d3584f61f9b8/tumblr_o6yxxgsvvj1ue45oyo6_1280.jpghttps://67.media.tumblr.com/be429b1ccdaf2b7c314af904609d2b74/tumblr_o6yxxgsvvj1ue45oyo8_1280.jpghttps://65.media.tumblr.com/b037f90f247ab0b8594ea695c8d8e563/tumblr_o6yxxgsvvj1ue45oyo9_1280.jpg

First four are supposed female, last two are supposed male, based on physical differences around the vent and tail length/thickness. Haven't popped them yet. First time with garters and these guys are so active, I was a little worried to try before handling them a little more to get a better feel for them.

The blue on the female is a little deeper in person, and covers all the area that looks yellow here. Male looks significantly more yellow, and I think may be a good bit younger? He's maybe a bit less than a foot long.

[guidofatherof5]

I would not suggest popping this size snake. Post up some under tail photos and we'll help you out on the sex ID. Are these local snakes? if so where are you located?

[Tommytradix]

they look like dark red sideds (parietalis)

[Albert Clark]

Looks to me it may be a T. butleri. Just my opinion. Could also be T.sirtalis sirtalis.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks a little to slender and long for a Butler's in my opinion. My first thought was Ribbon since I see no dark vertical lines in the supralabials and the body type looks ribbon to me. Anybody done a scale count? Supralabials, infralabials or lateral? Looks like the lateral is row 1,2,3. My kids have misplaced my book. I would also be helpful if we knew the local they are from. I don't think it's Thanmnophis sauritus, wrong lateral count.

[Albert Clark]

Can't really do a accurate scale count from this pic on my end. The location of the op would definitely help. Ribbons t. sauritus and t.proximus are differentiated from garters by their white scale in the frontal orbital region. Also their elongated tails which is hard to appreciate in the pics. The body type appears slender so could be a young t.butler but I can certainly be wrong. Very vivid coloration. Ribbons will also have white scaled supralabials and infralabials with no black markings.

[stray13]

Thank you to everyone for the input!

I was very off on the sizes. The one in the first four is 20", the one in the last two is 17". After settling in a little [these were unboxing pics], the larger one started showing black lines in the supralabials, the other did as well after they were fed. No white scale in front of the eyes on either of them [which is a marker I found looking up the markers for ribbons vs garters because I thought they looked like ribbons]. The larger one [still tentatively female, nice tapering from the vent] is much more blue now, and showing checkering in the dark lines. She[?] colored up a LOT during feeding, will try to record it when I feed again tomorrow. The other one [still tentatively male, doesn't really taper for several scales past the vent] also colored up during feeding, showing checkering and a lighter blue [like the blue on the larger one in the first four pics] that faded again a few minutes later and has come and gone since, a little deeper each time it fades in. I think part of the problem is that they are underweight? Possibly? They seem very thin for their length. Working on getting a scale, no idea how much they weigh. This is my first time with garters, so I have no idea how much stress and weight can affect their colors.

I am in Illinois, not that that will help much :p They were shipped to me from Florida, wild caught. Colored up they look like T. sirtalis similis, the longer one having a nice electric blue color and the shorter more like a sky blue, I think. I have also heard that T. sirtalis sirtalis in that state occaisionally have blue coloring, though?

Thinking a proper ID via shared photos might have to wait until I can fatten them up a little, though I would be more than happy to photo spam with a few of the pics taken over the past few days if anyone is interested :D

[Albert Clark]

Nice. Your location would be important if they were wild caught in your home state. Haha. They all are gorgeous anyway. Cool update, thanks. :)

[guidofatherof5]

Looks a little to slender and long for a Butler's in my opinion. My first thought was Ribbon since I see no dark vertical lines in the supralabials and the body type looks ribbon to me. Anybody done a scale count? Supralabials, infralabials or lateral? Looks like the lateral is row 1,2,3. My kids have misplaced my book. I would also be helpful if we knew the local they are from. I don't think it's Thanmnophis sauritus, wrong lateral count.


Looks like the lateral stripe is row 2 and 3. Sorry for the mistake.

[Albert Clark]

Looks like the lateral stripe is row 2 and 3. Sorry for the mistake.
Yeah, but I missed the information on the blue coloration in the previous op. Didn't take it into account.

[guidofatherof5]

Blue coloration. Possible T. proximus - Western Ribbon Snake

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//744/medium/t_prox.JPG

[Albert Clark]

See that! These garters, ribbons never fit into a one size, fits all approach. Or one , or two colors. Amazing!

[BUSHSNAKE]

Those look like redsides. Male and female would be my guess

[guidofatherof5]

Those look like redsides. Male and female would be my guess

They must be on vacation then:D since T. s. parietalis doesn't range in IL.

[BUSHSNAKE]

I
They must be on vacation then:D since T. s. parietalis doesn't range in IL.

I thought i read they were shipped from florida. Besides i only said they LOOK like redsides

[guidofatherof5]

I

I thought i read they were shipped from florida. Besides i only said they LOOK like redsides

Just messing with you my friend.;)