Melanistic garter slow growth

[AntTheDestroyer]

I purchased a melanistic eastern garter(Darth) in August, and when he arrived he was roughly the same size as my T. s. infernalis(Obi). As time passed Obi continued to grow at a pretty noticeable rate, but Darth seemed a bit stagnant even though he was eating consistently. I kind of put it off as the difference between two different species. As some of may know I went on a two week vacation and as I was prepping the snakes for their time alone I realized there was a major size difference between the two. It was to the point that I was worried Obi might confuse Darth for a prey item. Needless to say I separated them, but I am concerned that there is something wrong with Darth. He has gotten a bit more finicky about eating, he eats but refuses to eat anything but worms. This could just be a product of the season. I also don't think this is the issue because he was not growing well even when he was eating whole pinky mice. Has anyone else had this experience with this species or in general?

[Albert Clark]

Well Ant, I think there are several factors at work here and the first has to be the ages of the two as well as the locals from where they originate. East coast vs west coast should be a consideration. Prior to your purchase you don't know the frequency and variability on how Darth was fed or do you? I recently recall other similar posts on a snake eating but not gaining weight and length. Animal was taken to the vet and was found to have a enzymatic deficiency where foods were not able to be broken down and utilized. Thus a nutritional deficiency and abnormality. Of course that is a long shot but in the realm of possibilities. As far as the reptile only taking worms and or nightcrawlers have you tried scenting other foods with the worms? More than one way to skin a snake. Haha.

[d_virginiana]

I have one eastern male who is about three years old, and up until very recently he was small enough that I thought something might be off, but now he's the same size as the other eastern male he lives with; maybe a bit bigger. I have another eastern male who is an absolute giant; almost twice the size of my others, and easily mistaken for a female.

I do have one male blackneck that was nearly ftt who is definitely stunted in some way. He's probably about a year and a half, and is still extremely small for his age. Has mild neuro issues, but those have improved with age and he eats very regularly.

Basically, it can be a health problem, or it can just be how the snake is growing. Odds are he's fine and is just a 'late bloomer'. A picture with something like a ruler as a size comparison might help people tell you if he's behind enough in growth to really worry about though.

[AntTheDestroyer]

Here you go. Thanks for the input thus far. I used serpwidgets to get a total length of 8.98 inches. If I remember correctly he was about six inches when I first received him.

[Albert Clark]

I know that the two granites that came out of that litter in June 2015 contained 3 individuals of which one was a runt. I don't know if you recall the photos I posted on that litter? But that runt almost died like two days later. He pulled through but never really showed any real growth compared to his siblings. He had a great appetite but has only in the past month shown noticeable growth in comparison to his littermates. Do you know if Darth was the runt? Sometimes with runts they hit spontaneous growth spurts and play catch up sometimes dwarfing their littermates.

[Eddie]

His body looks good. I would not worry

[Tommytradix]

My melanistics are growing fast. My female is 27 inches and was born july 2015 my male is 19in. He might be a runt

[AntTheDestroyer]

I am not sure if he was the runt, but that was sure not the way he was sold to me. I wrote the seller an email asking him if he knew anything that could be going on, so we will see what he says.

[Albert Clark]

I am not sure if he was the runt, but that was sure not the way he was sold to me. I wrote the seller an email asking him if he knew anything that could be going on, so we will see what he says.
Very smart move! He should be somewhat of a help with any info. Actually the granite garter has shown growth but it was really very slow as your title suggests. And nothing in comparison to the two littermates. He just shed yesterday but I will have to check the info card and see when the last couple of sheds took place. I will show you the picture of the runt compared to his siblings as soon as I find it. Don't forget to scent other foods with worm in an attempt to get him to eat something different. Good luck with that too.

[Albert Clark]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13078&stc=1This is one pic when the three were born back in June 2015. The runt on the bottom. Smaller head and body all around. Almost died two days later.

[Albert Clark]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13079&stc=1Another comparison pic of him here. He's on the bottom and his brother on the top.

[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful.

[Eddie]

Those snakes are awesome Albert!!

[Albert Clark]

Beautiful.
Thanks Steve! You should see them now.

Those snakes are awesome Albert!!
Tyvm Ed, both males, the reduced pattern larger one I only recently found out was male.

[Albert Clark]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13080&stc=1Ant, this was the runt when he was first born. Notice the very small width and length. This guy was two or three days old in this pic. I really think he was three days old here bc he had spit out some clear fluid and immediately became more active and alert the day before. Wouldn't eat for a few days after that as well.

[d_virginiana]

Has the same configuration my blackneck runt did when he was little. Very tiny and bobble-head looking. For awhile my runt would pass bits of food that were obviously undigested (and I'm 100% sure it was poop and not regurge) but that eventually went away, and his neurological issues have become a lot less prominent.
I don't know how well it holds true across the board, but it seems like ones that are truly runts that have/had health issues as opposed to just slow growers are pretty obvious from a very young age.

[Albert Clark]

Ant, any updates on the melanistic garter ?

[AntTheDestroyer]

I am still waiting to hear back from the seller. His silence is a little suspicious in my opinion.

[snakeman]

Some snakes are just slow growers. Has nothing to do with the seller

[AntTheDestroyer]

If he sold me a runt then it absolutely has to do with the seller. He finally got back to me and said he did not have any idea and agreed that it was not a normal level of growth. He did specifically say it was not the runt and I take him at his word.

[Jeff B]

I don't think that was a snake that I produced,was it? You didn't contact me recently so I assume it wasn't one of my babies unless it was a secondary sale.
I would say that if it is eating and has survived almost a year, that there is nothing wrong with it. A lot of snakes don't eat in the winter even if it is their first winter and kept warm. Babies from a litter all grow at different rates and bigger and fatter is not necessarily healthier. Some snakes are picky feeders their whole lives. Some of my pickiest eaters are good breeders and some of my chow hogs are not. He may end up being your best breeder and live a long fruitful, healthy life. I would not be concerned, as long as he isn't super skinny, which he didn't look in the picture.

[AntTheDestroyer]

No Jeff it is definitely not an animal I got from you. Thanks for your input, it is always appreciated.

[Albert Clark]

Also, food for thought: The litter of granites (two granites and one pastel) born back in June 2015 of which the runt was part of was from a sub adult parent. The dam was a 8 mos. old who really was too young to be bred. That runt continues to feed and thrive but has a slow growth metabolism. I just wonder if he will be that way for life? I suspect he will.