lump/swelling under tongue

[chloe]

Has any one seen anything like this before. I moved my 2year old florida blue male into another viv with another florida blue male and the next day he had a big swelling in his mouth under his tongue. I took him straight to the vet and the vet thinks its a tumor, but said i could try antibiotic's first. What do you guys think? I am sure a bit of puss came out of it today when i was giving him his anti biotics. I am not convinced it is a tumor, i didn't think tumors could come up so quick.


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//567/medium/snakes_007.jpg

[chloe]

Second pic

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//567/medium/snakes_010.jpg

[adamanteus]

Is it possible they fought over a piece of food or something, and he's been bitten inside the mouth?

[chloe]

Thats what i originally thought. But the vet didn't and thinks it is a tumor. But i insisted i would try anti biotics first.

[adamanteus]

I've never heard of a tumour coming up so fast. Also, if you saw puss, there must be a lesion (or puncture wound?) for it to come from. My bet would be it's an injury.

[Sputnik]

I think you were right to insist on antibiotics. It's a little odd the vet suggested it being a tumor, tumors appear much slower, certainly not overnight. A bite sounds far more plausible.

[drache]

I would guess either an infected injury or a cyst
cysts can develop sometimes rapidly
either way antibiotics would help
it's extremely rare, though not impossible, for a tumour to develop so fast

[Lulu Bennett]

i would say you need to change your vet. let us know how the antibiotics work. i hope he gets well soon xxx:(

[Thamnophis]

My guess is an infection and I would certainly try antibiotics.

[ssssnakeluvr]

my guess would be an abcess....tumors take time to grow. give the antibiotics a shot first....

[Sid]

Best of luck with the problem. Certainly hope all goes well.

Sid

[joeysgreen]

Some things arn't adding up. Puss in reptiles is not something that will flow out of an opening. It's caseous or cheesy. This could have been serum, saliva or some other idiopathic fluid.

Most things, be it an abscess, cyst or tumour don't appear overnight. An easy way to dismiss this was that it went unnoticed until now. If it did truely happen overnight, it might lead me to think of an injury hematoma or blockage of a salivary duct ect. The first three are still possibilities too.

As per the veterinarian. I might think he's seen this type of problem many times before, and thus dismissed it as a tumour as all the outcomes are all the same. Or perhaps he's it's an educated assumption based upon mammilian experience. Either way, without knowing the vet and being there to discuss his thoughts, it's pointless to guess why he suggested what he did. All I can offer is what procedures I might think are appropriate, me NOT being a vet.

For any unknown lump, the first sensible cause for action might be to find out what it is. Everything from fine needle aspirates, tissue biopsies, cultures, and imagery are available to veterinarians. With this information, I would add it to how it is affecting the snake (discussed history, examination, behavior, bloodwork) to come up with likely differental diagnostics and a treatment plan as needed.

Now my way out there guess on what I think it is without even seeing the snake... my money is on a salivary gland tumour. They are more common than many people think.

I hope all turns out well for you and your snake.

Ian

[adamanteus]

Most things, be it an abscess, cyst or tumour don't appear overnight.
Now my way out there guess on what I think it is without even seeing the snake... my money is on a salivary gland tumour.

Seems a little contradictory to me, Ian. I still think a tumour would develop gradually.

[Snaky]

Most things, be it an abscess, cyst or tumour don't appear overnight. An easy way to dismiss this was that it went unnoticed until now.

What Ian wants to say it that it may have grown without you noticing untill suddenly you see a huge lump. This is something that happens quite often, although you might think that it's something you see easily...

[chloe]

He looked fine when i moved him into a different viv and i fed them and the next day i saw the swelling, i thought i would have noticed it when i moved him, but maybe i missed it. I saw a pin prick size of what i thought was pus come out at the front of his mouth when i was giving him his antibiotics. I can't tell at the moment whether it is going down or not. I will give it a few more days. I think it has gone done a bit but not sure if i am imagining it. If it is a salivary gland blockage, would the antibiotics clear it?

[joeysgreen]

To further clarify my guess, the tumour can be small, and grow slow, but at some point the saliva is blocked, and the resultant backup is quick.

There are many reasons, injury perhaps the most common, that a salivary gland may be blocked. All of the aforementioned guesses can do so. Antibiotics may help if it's infection related, or they may help by preventing an infection so the body can heal the cause naturally. In the end, if antibiotics don't help, further diagnostics are needed to proceed. I would ask your vet about this, or if you feel uncomfortable asking your vet to pursue this manner or for a second opinion, by all means look for another. ARAV (http://www.arav.com) is a good place to start.

Ian

[Sputnik]

Considering Chloe lives in Wales, I don't think ARAV are going to be much use to her, Ian. Can't imagine she'd want to catch a plane accross the Atlantic to her next appointment. :D

[joeysgreen]

um, ya, you are right that I overlooked where she lives, however ARAV is a worldwide organization with MANY European members. I did a quick search for Wales, and didn't come up with any, but since I don't exactly know where Wales is, it could be my fault. Barring that, contacting some British vets (that's close isn't it?) and seeing if they have any contacts that are closer.

To make this even more complete, Wales undoubteably has a veterinary association which will be a good source for more leads if not more. Additionally, the British Small Animal Veterinary Association has a good chapter devoted to reptiles and might be another to contact.

Also googling Wales Reptile Vet turned up some leads, many from Herp Vet Connection (http://www.herpvetconnection.com) which is a client based referal list.

Ian

ps, after proofing my post it sounds like an "in your face" kind of response. It ain't, I'm just trying to be helpfull but don't know how to reword it more appropriately. :o

[Lulu Bennett]

joey i am sure it help alot. thanks for taking your time and looking that up. xxx

[adamanteus]

Chloe, any change to the swelling in the snakes mouth? I hope all is well with him.

[Sputnik]

ps, after proofing my post it sounds like an "in your face" kind of response. It ain't, I'm just trying to be helpfull but don't know how to reword it more appropriately. :o

Lol, nah, don't worry. I realise you're only trying to help. :)

[chloe]

Hi everyone

Thanks for all the info. He seems to be getting better, the lump has definately stated to go down and he ate yesterday.

[Sputnik]

That's great news, Chloe!

[Sid]

Hi everyone

Thanks for all the info. He seems to be getting better, the lump has definately stated to go down and he ate yesterday.

Congrats, and hope for a speedy- full recovery.

[Lulu Bennett]

Hi everyone

Thanks for all the info. He seems to be getting better, the lump has definately stated to go down and he ate yesterday.

awww thats great news chloe. just hope it gets better from here. keep us updated xxx

[Odie]

Totally cool news, Chloe :D

[drache]

good news, Cloe
it sounds like he's okay then

[hissy100]

Great news, i was worried for you. I had a garter once that developed one of those bumps and about two weeks later it died:(

[Odie]

I own two Northwestern Garters (T. ordinoides)
One's got white stripes and the other has yellow Can we see some pics? :D

[hissy100]

Can we see some pics? :D
Look at my gallery, There are some pics there.

[Odie]

:cool: thanks.
Dose White Lightning have red spots on its belly?
Request better close up!

[Cazador]

Hi Chloe,

That's really encouraging news! The antibiotics are a great first chioce before resorting to excessively expensive procedures. I hope your snake continues to improve, but in the meantime, be sure to turn up the temperature to around 30-31C to give its immune system a little boost. Cheers,

Rick

[chloe]

Thanks Rick, it has completely gone now and he is back to normal