Throat Lump

[Simland]

My eastern garter has developed a throat lump on the under side of its throat. I noticed it the day before yesterday but it seems to have doubled in size, now.

Is this cause for concern? Should I rush to a vet, or wait and see how things develop? He doesn't seem bothered by it at all. He's eating normally and maintaining the same level of alertness / activity as before and it doesn't seem to cause him any pain. I touched it when I first noticed it and it was pretty soft, not hard.

I feed him nightcrawlers (nothing that could have wounded it from inside). Bedding is natural top soil without additives and some gravel to help shedding. I've had this snake for a year and a half and never had this problem before.

I read that it could be a respiratory infection due to too much variation in temperature. I don't believe the temperature drops enough for that to be the cause.

I'll try to take pictures and post them soon, but I wanted to fire off this post as quickly as possible.

[Simland]

Here are the pictures.

The good news is that it, somehow got back to the size it was the day before yesterday... it might even be a bit smaller. I don't know why it looked twice the size earlier today. I strongly doubt it was because of a food lump since its meal was clearly much further down its body (but I guess one of the worms could have been stretched out and a bit curled up in its throat.

Anyway, at the moment, the lump is small enough that was actually a bit difficult to take pictures from angles that make it visible. I did manage to take a few, however. (Sorry for the poor quality. I never use my camera in fully automatic mode, so that option didn't even occur to me until after and I had to artificially increase the exposure a lot.)

The first one makes it look worse than it actually looks from that side. In reality, it's pretty much invisible on the right side.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13049&stc=1http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13050&stc=1http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13051&stc=1http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13052&stc=1

[guidofatherof5]

I think a vet.visit is in order. Could be an abscess, cancer, tumor, etc. Money well spent in my opinion. Keep us posted, please.

[Albert Clark]

Sorry to see this and I agree that it should be evaluated by a herp vet. It's very suspicious bc of the location ( near the airway and esophagus) so it has to interfere with breathing and swallowing. Even though the animal is still eating it must be difficult for him to get his food down normally. This probably will just become more problematic over time sorry to say. Was this guy wild caught or captive bred? Keep us updated. Good luck!

[Simland]

It was wild caught a while ago, for educational purposes. I'm trying to find a vet.

I'll post future developments, but, so far, at least it doesn't seem bothered by it, so hopefully I'll find a vet in time for this to be cured easily.

...should've done that research a long time ago, but I guess I was hoping not to need one...

[d_virginiana]

Hopefully this is something that can be easily dealt with. If he's not showing symptoms of anything, maybe you've caught it before it really becomes a serious issue.

[Simland]

I couldn't find a specialist in my area but I made an appointment with a veterinarian who treats snakes and other reptiles from time to time. She says it's most likely inflammation because it's too soft to be something like an abscess.

No treatment seems to be required for the time being other than giving him baths in case the inflammation is due to dehydration (he doesn't look dehydrated but its substrate was a bit drier than usual last week...)

Bottom line is, she said not to worry as long it doesn't get bigger and he keeps eating and acting normally.

He didn't have much of an appetite this weekend, but, I have my fingers crossed that it's just a normal "I don't feel like eating on schedule" moment.

[guidofatherof5]

Glad you found someone to look into the problem. Please keep us posted.

[Zdravko092368]

I've seen this with ahttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/#99503070) few of my easterns, my big female has had a lump like that for two years and it hasn't impacted her at all. Unfortunately I woulnd't be able to tell you why it's there or what it could be though.

[Albert Clark]

Glad to hear that a professional inspected the swelling and doesn't think it's serious! Congrats.

[Simland]

I was a bit worried since he ate less than usual last weekend and earlier this week, but I gave him a pinkie for the first time yesterday and it took it right away (once I scented it with worm smell). I was skeptical about the scent working since he had refused a worm the same morning, but it worked.

I'm continuing the bath treatment because I haven't been particularly good at giving him 2 baths per day (sometimes I was only back long after dark), but the lump seems a bit bigger today. Nothing as dramatic as the first time I thought it had grown, but still...

Do you guys know any anti-inflamatory drugs that can be used for garter snakes. The vet said that would be the next step and she has already prepared a prescription, but, I believe the name they mentioned was metacam and I'm a bit reluctant to go for that, in part because it's probably really expensive since it's a vet-prescription only drug but also because, from what I've read about it, it doesn't seem appropriate. It's said to be only for cats and dogs and the most accurate measurement (to avoid overdose) is one drop per half-pound. My snake doesn't even weigh a quarter of a pound. How am I supposed to split a drop?

[Albert Clark]

I would really think about getting a second opinion from a qualified herp vet for this condition if there is any way possible for you to do that. As far as the anti inflammatory meds are concerned the reptile would need a different drug concentration for the appropriate dosage. I don't know if that is just a band aid on a more pathological condition. This swelling to me should be incised and explored for any infectious process so that could be truly ruled out. Parasitic and other pathogens need to be ruled out definitively by specimen testing and visualization. Just my .02 cents. Good luck. Keep us updated.

[joeysgreen]

Meloxicam (Metacam) is very practical advice from this veterinarian. It is licensed for cats and dogs... you won't find a single drug licensed for reptiles, because there isn't a market for the pharmaceutical companies to excuse the costly process. Meloxicam is a Non-Steroidal Anti-inflammatory Drug (NSAID) that has studies supporting its use in reptiles, which can be extrapolated to use in your specific species. Doses are generally higher in reptiles, up to 0.5mg/kg, to potentially even 1mg/kg. Your vet is very experienced at dosing and making dilutions, so just follow their directions and you should be fine.

As far as additional diagnostics and treatments (like exploratory surgery), they might be necessary down the road, but they are invasive and thus it makes more sense to see how the snake responds to pain and inflammation control.

Ian

[Albert Clark]

The final decision is yours Simland. We are just putting the information out there. All I am saying is a experienced herp vets approach to this condition may be different than the approach given to you already. There is needle aspiration of suspicious swellings that can be done to rule out parasites and pathogenic processes. Needle aspiration is something the herp vet may want to visit with you. But again, good luck. Always a good choice to get a second opinion if it's practical.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I've rescued and rehabbed alot of herps and i've seen this before is some animals with mouth rot/gum infections, and respitory infections that was caused by drainage. If you look hard at the pics it look's like it's mouth is not properly aligned. Have you inspected the mouth for any obstructions or inflammation? Have you noticed any heavy breathing or wheezing sounds?

[joeysgreen]

I agree that sometimes the two are related but I would have hoped an oral exam would have been part of the veterinary visit which has already been done.

[Simland]

I agree that a second opinion is always a good thing, but for the moment it's out of the question since the nearest specialist is about 2 hours away.

Bluesirtalis, I think I see what you mean in the pictures, but it's an illusion. The mouth is ok and an oral inspection was indeed done by the vet. (Thanks for paying close attention to the pictures, though!)

There was, maybe, a bit a swelling inside, way at the back, but even the vet wasn't sure.

I'll wait and see, as long as he doesn't go off food in a worrying way and the lump doesn't get bigger. If there's no change or the lump gets bigger, I'll try the anti-inflammatory drug, and then, we'll see...

[Albert Clark]

That's fine. Great choice. Keep us updated please. This is a very interesting scenario and history of present illness in the reptile.

[Simland]

Just a little update. He's still fine and I never had to try the anti-inflamatory drug.

I wish he were a reliable eater all the time, but, when he goes off food, I don't think it's related.

[guidofatherof5]

Just a little update. He's still fine and I never had to try the anti-inflamatory drug.

I wish he were a reliable eater all the time, but, when he goes off food, I don't think it's related.

Thanks for the update. Glad things are going as well as they are.

[Eddie]

Nice!!