Another Feeding Problem Thread

[Simland]

I'm aware of a few potential causes for feeding problems (temperatures being too cold or too warm, desire to reproduce, shedding and sickness). I'm having problems feeding both of my Eastern garters now and I hope they are not sick. I haven't found anything the fits in the other threads.

The larger one (a male that I've had for a year [don't know his age, but he hasn't grown that much in the past year]) was a very regular eater from last fall to last spring. Every other day, I would feed it two nightcrawlers and it would take them quickly, and whenever I would offer him a third one, it would take it too. Then, early in the summer, it shed for the last time and since then it has been a very irregular eater, often going a week or more without eating. Since it doesn't seem to have lost weight, I wouldn't be that worried about it except that it's a departure from what was normal. It has also been a long while since it's last shed. At first I thought the temperature was too warm during the summer, but it hasn't been that warm in over a month and the feeding hasn't gone back to normal. I tried to add fish to it's diet (haven't tried pinky mice yet, and I would like to avoid them), but as soon as the frozen/thawed fish entered the terrarium it started acting wary, testing the air for the source of the smell. When it saw the fish, it backed away from it and when I tried to wiggle the fish in front of it, it faked a couple of attacks on my hand (it's never done that before). Feels like it's had a traumatic experience with a fish before....

The smaller one (probably a female [but I have yet to take a good picture to get a confirmation]) I've only had for a couple of months and she's still in her quarantine terrarium. Two weeks after I got her, she started accepting nightcrawlers. She would take one night crawler every other day and everything was nice and regular. That lasted for a while, but then she started puking parts of the worms out after a few hours or a day. I thought the worms I was giving her might be too big since the ones in that batch were a bit bigger than the ones before, so I started cutting them in half, but the puking continued (now the whole half was puked). Then it hit me that maybe it was a uvb issue, so I gave her a brand new bulb, but the problem continued or rather, if I remember correctly, she just stopped eating, so I thought maybe the temperatures had cooled enough that she was missing a basking light (it would have bee ridiculous to use one this summer, here), so I added one. She still refuses worms and she's alarmingly thin and listless. I've managed to feed her a few guppies, but I don't know how long that will last, because getting her interested in the frozen/thawed guppies is actually kind of difficult.

I don't know her age either, but she's quite small. If you follow the rule that the snake must not be longer than the length + the width of the terrarium, then her ten gallon aquarium is a decent minimum for her, with a tiny bit of room for growth. It's rather bare, though (it's still a quarantine terrarium), but it's not any more bare than some of what I've seen as permanent garter snake enclosures. She doesn't have any signs of sickness that I can see and she doesn't have a mite problem. She also seemed to be in perfect health when I got her. Could she have been turned off worms by the weeks of eating and puking them?

Is it possible to force feed a garter snake?

Also, how do you guys vary your snakes' diets if you don't give them pinky mice? Worms and fish seems kind of limited... not to mention that guppies and platies make for an expensive staple....

Any help with this would be appreciated. I'm rather scared the smaller one will die.

[Rushthezeppelin]

You keep saying "too warm" or "too cold". Are you actually monitoring temps in their terrariums? Also both of them should ideally have a basking lamp on one side so that you create a temp gradient in the viv. Need to try and hit 85-86 in the basking spot and get at least cooler than 78 or so on the cool end (I keep mind down to 73-74).

Also, why the aversion to pinky mice?

[Simland]

Yes, I do monitor the temperatures in their terrariums, but I don't sit in front of it all day, so all I can say is that when I do look at them, the temperatures are in an acceptable range (really wish I could find gauges that remember the lowest and warmest temperature for a period of 24 hours). I don't monitor the cool side very regularly though, I rely a lot on the snake's behaviour. the basking spot is at an ok temperature and splits its time between the basking spot and the cool side, I generally assume the cool side is cool enough for it to wander over to the basking spot for heat.

That said, the temperature monitoring in my smaller snake's terrarium is a bit more difficult than in the other one. 10 gallon tanks aren't very large so I bought a fairly low wattage bulb and the basking spot is actually the top of the main hide and the ground is cooler (and coolest at the other side of the terrarium). It makes measuring the temperature of the basking spot difficult because I can't place a thermometer directly on it (it would either get pushed off or be hidden under the snake).

I'm looking into getting a temperature gun so I can get better spot readings like that. Does anyone know if they work well through glass?

That said, the problem started before the ambient temperatures started dropping. She also doesn't spend as much time basking as I would expect if it was a cold problem (still, I'm hoping that is what it is). And I do manage to feed her fish (although it takes some work...and she'll usually cruise around the terrarium like a zombie for a little while, with the fish in her mouth, before swallowing it... unless she drops it, in which case I have to do the work all over again).

Hopefully it's just a temperature problem. Maybe it started out as a UVB problem and it continued after that was fixed because the ambient temperatures started dropping around then...

[Rushthezeppelin]

Hmmmm, might not be related to temps. I would still get the temp gun for sure, they are infinitely useful. BTW they don't work through glass. Glass is a thermal reflector so there is nothing you can do about. Just make sure you are hitting round about 85 in the basking spot and you should be good.

[Simland]

Are the temp guns easy to use through grid tops and mesh screens, or is there too much of a chance of getting a reading from them (or partially from them) instead of the intended spot?

[Rushthezeppelin]

Ya you will need to remove the lid more than likely. I personally use the iphone flir unit though (got one through my job) grating and I can actually see where the reading I'm getting is.

[Simland]

I finally got my temperature gun and a new thermometer and I double checked the temperatures in the terrarium of my remaining snake. He's not doing too bad, but he's not eating nearly as much as he did at the same time last year. I'm thinking it's a temperature issue, because I switched its tank a few months back and the new one is 2 inches taller, so the light is farther from the bottom.

After double checking, it looks like the previous thermometer I had in the basking area might have given me a reading that was too high, so I'll put more substrate there to bring that area closer to the light.

The odd thing is that my snake no longer hangs out in the basking area. He prefers the cooler side, where the temperature is around 20C. I would have thought it would prefer to hang out at the other end, where the air temp may be too low but is nonetheless several degrees higher and where the surface temp is 32C (unless my temp gun is faulty). It cruises around its terrarium every-now-and-then, but it never ever stays there anymore (that I know of).

He doesn't show too many signs of looking for a hibernaculum, but maybe I'm just not there to see them. ' will see what happens when I raise the substrate.

At least, other than the fact that it eats less then before (but it still eats, thankfully!), it seems ok.