My first Garters! What species are they?

[boyer45]

Hi everybody, I finally have my first Garters!! Yay!! I am so happy. I have been trying to catch one all summer.:D I finally found a couple hanging out in my yard. I think they are the Plains Garter Thamnophis radix but I am not sure. I live in St. Louis, Mo. and I know there are only 3 species here. They are both doing great and eating with no problems.Thanks for your help!!

[boyer45]

Sorry guys, I put this in urgent care and I don't know how to delete it. It is not urgent and I meant to put it in general.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Perhaps we can just say that it was urgent from somebody to confirm that indeed those are Radixes you have. Wide dorsal and very dark patterning with smaller checkers than a checkered. Pretty darn sure it's Radixes. Very healthy ones at that (I don't know if the pics are of the same one). Should give us some good full body shots of that one, looks to be a girl and halfway decent chance she's gravid if shes WC (or if not just had her clutch, she's certainly fat enough). If she's not she might become next year if she has stored sperm.

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking T. radix - Plains Garter Snake
Here's the range map for them Page 236 of "The Garter Snake Evolution and Ecology by Rossman, Ford and Seigel

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//744/medium/T_radix_range.jpg

[boyer45]

Thanks! The pics are of the same one. It is the smaller one. The bigger one is hard to photograph because it hides every time I open the cage. I will try to get some more pics today. The one in the pictures shed a couple of days after I caught it.Do they do that when they are gravid?

[Rushthezeppelin]

Yes they do often shed especially before actually birthing scrubs.....granted a full grown snake will still shed without being gravid though (they just don't shed as often).

[BUSHSNAKE]

they look more like a sirtalis sp. to me

[boyer45]

OK so here are some pics of the larger one. They are not great but I have to take what I can get.I hope they start to trust me soon so they don't head for the hills every time they see me!!:( The smaller one is about about a foot when fully extended and the larger one is about a foot and 1/4th. I noticed that they have two small yellow lines on their heads. They are very short and separate. you can kind of see them in the first pics I posted.

[guidofatherof5]

Those are lines are called parietal spots.

[Albert Clark]

I initially thought they were Easterns.

[boyer45]

Do these parietal spots help with identification?

[guidofatherof5]

Do these parietal spots help with identification?

Yes, only to say it's a garter snake not a specific species of said. Ribbon snakes which are Thamnophis don't have them though.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Yes, only to say it's a garter snake not a specific species of said. Ribbon snakes which are Thamnophis don't have them though.

Funny you say that. I thought I found a ribbon the other day, but apparently it was a garter (had a parietal spot) and might have been some new morph I totally passed on ><

[Rushthezeppelin]

12709

[guidofatherof5]

Yes, only to say it's a garter snake not a specific species of said. Ribbon snakes which are Thamnophis don't have them though.


Funny you say that. I thought I found a ribbon the other day, but apparently it was a garter (had a parietal spot) and might have been some new morph I totally passed on ><

I should have clarified my other answer Rush, not all Ribbon snakes lack the parietal spots. Thamnophis sauritus (Eastern Ribbon Snake) and its subspecies(nitae,sackenii,septentrionalis)doesn't have them* To quote The Garter Snake Evolution and Ecology, page 250. *"The light parietal spots--if present at all--are small and rarely bright or fused together"
Sorry for any confusion.

[boyer45]

Thanks so much for all of your replies, I am so glad I found this forum! I can tell you guys have a lot of experience with and info about these snakes.Just a little good news, the bigger garter ate two pinkies today. I just scented them with night crawlers and down they went. I didn't realize how easy it would be.Thanks again

[Rushthezeppelin]

Its usually not that easy lmao. Wasn't near that easy with my checkered. I wasted 3 pinks completely on her. Finally took fish scented the 4th time.

[boyer45]

I seem to have good luck when it comes to getting my snakes to eat. It was the same with my baby Dekayi. I hope I didn't just jinx myself.

[joeysgreen]

The parietal spots are found on the western ribbon snake (at least some of the time); which is the species also found in St. Louis. I'm unfamiliar with how radix look in your area but the sirtalis are very variable. The radix should have black bars on their labial scales while the others don't. The lateral stripe will also be on scale rows 3 and 4 (at midbody), while 2-3 on the sirtalis.

Glad it's eating well for you.

[Tommytradix]

Definitely radix

[Tommytradix]

im thinking the 2nd one looks more like a parietalis