Rush's Thamily!!

[Rushthezeppelin]

Gonna go ahead and start a new thread since I have more than just Delilah now.
As of this moment this is my Thamily

Delilah the Marcianus
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/9F4C763F-BD27-4812-8751-6C4DB2F62033.jpg

Joan the Red Albino Radix
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/B51E90B5-82B1-4F17-AE1E-F6994AE94493.jpg

Eliza the Red Albino Radix
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/6D73582C-7615-4B0A-821D-1E43E8512CED.jpg

Betty the Sitralis
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/BB4542CF-B28C-44CD-B921-C9E61ADEE80D.jpg

[Rushthezeppelin]

Update on Joan, she just had a 100% perfect shed within the last few hours. Still hasn't eaten for me yet though, but w/e she's got plenty of fat stores atm so she will be just dandy waiting a few more days.

[d_virginiana]

OMG that eastern is so TINY! It makes me miss when mine were little bobble-headed babies :D

[Rushthezeppelin]

HAHAHAHA that is exactly what I've been calling her...a little bobble headed snake ROFLMAO. She is so freaking adorable, especially watching her eat. Speaking of which all 3 of them have eaten now. Finally got Joan to eat some worm but she's eccentric and takes forever as they are chunks sized for Betty so she will eat one chunk and spend the next 5 minutes cleaning herself and wandering in her tank, then take another chunk. It's quite cute how much of a clean freak she is. Eliza is total opposite and hoovers up one chunk after another barely even taking the time to get the first one halfway down her throat before thrashing around while grabbing the next. Betty is a dainty eater but she was still the first to eat. Betty is also COMPLETELY fearless. She has never flinched at me and barely even spends any time in any of the hides lol. All three are quite the bunch lol.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Joan's post shed glamour shots:

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/03C69B51-DDE3-4CC7-A51D-ABE0064AF586.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/5921EBC4-9681-4EAA-8DD9-6845C141DB47.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/A0BE091E-E1A5-4CEB-964C-283C44BC096A.jpg

[Rushthezeppelin]

Also noticed just after lights out Betty went and curled up on top of the basking rock soaking up the rest of the heat in there.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/4A607941-4327-42C3-812B-E6FF0E983C25.jpg

[Tommytradix]

betty used to hang out on the edge of the water bowl all day or curled up next to it.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Was the she the watch for all the others? Lol

[Rushthezeppelin]

Turns out it was Eliza that shed, Joan is currently working on her shed right now. Got the top off, working on getting the bottom loose now.

[Rushthezeppelin]

She's out now. Had the same issue as Delilah with it breaking at the tail but I helped her the rest of the way and she's now got a complete shed.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/95B84707-44BE-4BC8-9BDD-CE93B37CE1AE.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/3F556A22-0CC7-4B87-94D7-1BA65E041EF4.jpg

[Albert Clark]

Great looking crew of Thamns! Congrats.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Great news, Delilah ate her first unscented pink today. Sniffed it for all of two seconds on some hemos and hit it. So proud of her.

[Rushthezeppelin]

I'm starting to wonder if Delilah might be getting a little too fat. I only really say this because of the difference in muscle definition between Joan and Delilah. Joan is a muscle tube while Delilah has a bit of squish to her. Also her back is more rounded where as Joan has a prominent spine ridge. Also Delilah is just as big around as Joan despite being about 4-5" shorter. Their heads are almost the same size though. Kind of odd that Delilah is the one that always wraps tightly on the fingers (almost uncofortably) when I handle her where as Joan doesn't ever hold on to me tightly.

[Albert Clark]

Aren't they two different classes of thamnophis? Delilah is checkered and Joan is radix, right? They will always look different bc of the genetic makeup and different muscle ,skeletal, fat reserves in general. It's like comparing oranges and tangelos. Radix is a heavier bodied thamn than marcianus. I think locale plays a factor also.

[guidofatherof5]

Aren't they two different classes of thamnophis? Delilah is checkered and Joan is radix, right? They will always look different bc of the genetic makeup and different muscle ,skeletal, fat reserves in general. It's like comparing oranges and tangelos. Radix is a heavier bodied thamn than marcianus. I think locale plays a factor also.


What do you mean by "classes"

[Rushthezeppelin]

Aren't they two different classes of thamnophis? Delilah is checkered and Joan is radix, right? They will always look different bc of the genetic makeup and different muscle ,skeletal, fat reserves in general. It's like comparing oranges and tangelos. Radix is a heavier bodied thamn than marcianus. I think locale plays a factor also.

Touche their northern range seems to begin where Radix's southern ends and thus would need to be built differently for the habitat. Just didn't know if all garters had that same basic body structure.

[Albert Clark]

What do you mean by "classes"
Classes being the classification of the subspecies as it refers to individuals. Example, marcianus versus radix and concinnus versus infernalis. The scientific classification is "reptilia". Then genus being the genotype of "thamnophis". ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Classes being the classification of the subspecies as it refers to individuals. Example, marcianus versus radix and concinnus versus infernalis. The scientific classification is "reptilia". Then genus being the genotype of "thamnophis". ;)

Yeah, but what did you mean by "two different classes of Thamnophis" I should have clarified my original question.

<font size="3"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDfYHrAYU7c

[Albert Clark]

Yeah, but what did you mean by "two different classes of Thamnophis" I should have clarified my original question.

<font size="3"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDfYHrAYU7c

The class of species as it applies to the individual snake. Delilah is a T.S.marcianus and Joan is a T.radix . Both , of course , thamnophis but different in their classification. Not only that, but physical genetic makeup, bodily characteristics, and adaptability to a certain region or locale. Aquatic versus terrestrial. mountainous versus plains, etc. :)

[guidofatherof5]

The class of species as it applies to the individual snake. Delilah is a T.S.marcianus and Joan is a T.radix . Both , of course , thamnophis but different in their classification. Not only that, but physical genetic makeup, bodily characteristics, and adaptability to a certain region or locale. Aquatic versus terrestrial. mountainous versus plains, etc. :)


I understand now. You were using the word "classes" outside the taxonomic design. Thanks.

[Albert Clark]

Oh, ok. Got it Steve. Thank you for the clarification. Just trying to allay the fears of Rush about the physical differences of her species. Explaining how body mass and physical , genetic makeup pertains to the various species. Thanks .

[Rushthezeppelin]

Just to clear things up I'm a guy...regardless thanks for clearing things up, I figured it was a case of much ado about nothing.

[Albert Clark]

Just to clear things up I'm a guy...regardless thanks for clearing things up, I figured it was a case of much ado about nothing.
Yep, got it! Now I know. Guess you never stop learning. Thanks for making me aware. Oh and on a side note I reached out to Kevin about the mosquito larvae and he is at the Daytona repticon and couldn't answer my questions at this time. Keep you posted.:):)

[Albert Clark]

Rush, I just got word that I was wrong about mosquito larvae and it's called mosquito fish and the other food used by the breeder is soldier fly larvae! Not mosquito larvae at all. The mosquito fish are a small mosquito larvae eating fish used in ponds and backyard water gardens. The soldier fly larvae aka" Phoenix worms" are used in manure management, and bioconversion of organic waste material. Larvae are sold as feeders of herptiles and tropical fish. They store high levels of calcium for future pupation which is beneficial to herptiles. The larval stage is a plump, flattened organism. They are in the kingdom of animalia but fall in the class of insecta. Didn't find anything on chitin containing. Sorry for the mixup on my part! :)

[liveunderoath]

I have used mosquito fish to feed northern water snakes. They look pretty much like ugly grey guppies.
They are also very easy to breed just like guppies.

[d_virginiana]

In regards to different garters being built differently, you can see that in the same species from different locales too. There was a thread on that several years back, but apparently male easterns from southern locales tend to keep the bobble-head look (comparatively large eyes and a large head compared to a pretty thin neck) into adulthood where it's not nearly as noticeable in easterns from other parts of the country. Just thought that was interesting.

My blacknecks are built differently than my easterns too. Unless you look at one and think something is off, they're probably not overweight enough to cause problems.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Ya I've used mosquitofish for Delilah before, might need to do that to get the other 3 girls on fish. I tried putting some tilapia in for em and they turned their noses up. Even scented it with worms and they just picked out the few worm bits and left the fish lol. I figure some live fish might entice em to get the taste of fish.

[liveunderoath]

Ya I've used mosquitofish for Delilah before, might need to do that to get the other 3 girls on fish. I tried putting some tilapia in for em and they turned their noses up. Even scented it with worms and they just picked out the few worm bits and left the fish lol. I figure some live fish might entice em to get the taste of fish.
I'm sure they will definitely go for the mosquito fish.

[guidofatherof5]

Would you post up a photo of Delilah and the radix so we can get a relative girth comparison?

[Albert Clark]

I was looking for info on the parasite loads of retail sold mosquito fish to see if it compares to that of rosy reds. I would think it's better to raise your own to be safe. The soldier fly larvae sounds interesting too. I guess eventually I will consider it if I have a issue with the black necks not taking pinky parts scented or unscented.

[Rushthezeppelin]

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/2B523238-79D5-4F88-A380-4E6B6EBDFCC4.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/405365B0-AECF-4A4F-B5AB-D490D826D676.jpg

Joan is ever so slightly more girthy than Delilah but not by much. Delilah is probably 3-5" shorter....I haven't measured her since her last shed and I haven't measured Joan at all yet so just a guess.

[Albert Clark]

As Joan ages she will definitely surpass Delilah in heavy bodied appearance. That is the rule but of course there are always exceptional cases. Who is older anyway?

[guidofatherof5]

Delilah looks fine. No need to worry about her girth. She's a good looking Thamnophis.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Joan is 1 in November. Delilah it's hard to say since she was wild caught but was probably born sometimes last year. According to Tommy, Joan is a bit of a runt though and might not grow too big.

[d_virginiana]

I guess eventually I will consider it if I have a issue with the black necks not taking pinky parts scented or unscented.

Not to get the thread off-track, but guppies work sometimes, but also try giving them different parts of the pinkie if you're having trouble. Sounds bizarre, but my two that were almost ftt would only take very specific bits of the pinkies. One would only eat skin, and the other would only eat red organ meat (heart, liver, and lungs). I eventually got them to eat the other bits by kind of daisy-chaining them in while they still had what they were eating in their mouth lol.

[Albert Clark]

Ok. Kool. I am trying to pick up some of that soldier fly larvae to try as well. The female shed today and scarfed up alot of the pinky parts and frog legs cut up. That's a relief.

[Albert Clark]

Joan is 1 in November. Delilah it's hard to say since she was wild caught but was probably born sometimes last year. According to Tommy, Joan is a bit of a runt though and might not grow too big.
There you go! One of the possible exceptions. On the other hand, runts sometimes outgrow their siblings. They also can become larger than normal unrelated individuals.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Not to get the thread off-track, but guppies work sometimes, but also try giving them different parts of the pinkie if you're having trouble. Sounds bizarre, but my two that were almost ftt would only take very specific bits of the pinkies. One would only eat skin, and the other would only eat red organ meat (heart, liver, and lungs). I eventually got them to eat the other bits by kind of daisy-chaining them in while they still had what they were eating in their mouth lol.

So are you saying you just leave all the oragn connective tissue intact so it just ends up being chained and they eat the rest when they go for their favorite or are you literally sneaking other stuff in their mouth while it's still open?

[Rushthezeppelin]

Hmmm I've noticed today that Betty is hardly tongue flicking at all (and only doing half tongues mostly). Not really many other signs, she's only 6" so she's always been rather slow (plus she never spooks). She ate two good chunks of worm two days ago. I was going to feed them at lunch today but found that my worm supply has run dry so I need to go grab more. Any real cause for concern or should I just keep an eye on her?

[Albert Clark]

IMHO, I would make sure Betty has a meal every other day. Try to get her to take a live guppy so she can get a nice boost. Remember I had trouble with the runt granite checkered in the beginning. Now, that girl is eating very well.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Need to grab some more guppies from my old roommate.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Betty also seems to be falling asleep quickly and alot today. I just tried giving her some worm chunks and she didn't want any (I tried feeding separate from the big girls this time since Eliza snatched a piece from her last time). I put her down on the basking spot, I know heat is number one thing they need if/when they are under the weather. Think it might be a good idea to go grab a 5g for her for the time being? I'm not sure she's stressed by the other two (like I said she always seems 100% fearless) but I figure this would also do good to monitor her separately from the big girls (as far as I can tell nothing untoward with the tiny poos). Also is it normal for little spaghetti scrubs (well she's a little fatter than that now, she's def gained at least a few tenths of a gram I'd guess since I got her) to have somewhat foldy skin especially around her scrawny neck?

[Tommytradix]

Betty also seems to be falling asleep quickly and alot today. I just tried giving her some worm chunks and she didn't want any (I tried feeding separate from the big girls this time since Eliza snatched a piece from her last time). I put her down on the basking spot, I know heat is number one thing they need if/when they are under the weather. Think it might be a good idea to go grab a 5g for her for the time being? I'm not sure she's stressed by the other two (like I said she always seems 100% fearless) but I figure this would also do good to monitor her separately from the big girls (as far as I can tell nothing untoward with the tiny poos). Also is it normal for little spaghetti scrubs (well she's a little fatter than that now, she's def gained at least a few tenths of a gram I'd guess since I got her) to have somewhat foldy skin especially around her scrawny neck?
you stress way too much bro haha she will be fine!!! they do best when they are left alone a lil. constant looking and handling will only stress them

[Rushthezeppelin]

I really only get to do it on my lunch break and when I get home (I just try and observe them for 10-20min twice a day), but your probably right I am overly wary of any slight change. Still just trying to learn the nuances of these creatures and I've always been a very (overly) observant person. I'm guessing she's probably going into or will be going into shed anytime now as she's the only one who hasn't shed for me yet.

[guidofatherof5]

Could be a retained shed. Folds in skin are a classic sign of retained shed. Best to get her in a container with some water or wet paper towels. Thank Steve Schmidt for this idea of a possible problem
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/11703-retained-shed-indentication-treatment.html

[Rushthezeppelin]

Hmmm they have a humid hide in there, never seen her use it though. I thought the folding was more from her skin having to have so much stretch even to get a tiny piece of worm down. It has been two weeks though and she hasn't shed, I assume they shed really often when they are noodles. She's also seemed rather dull (especially on the top of her head although I don't know what normal is like for her) and I have caught her rubbing her head alot in the past few days. Either way shes in a shed box now, will check on her in 30 and leave her alone for the rest of the night.

[guidofatherof5]

The link I provided tells you ways to see if it is a retained shed and how to get it off.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Well the only clues I have is less activity and the folds that run usually on the sides down the length of her body it's like she's got too much skin sorta is the best way to describe it. I never saw her blue or anything but I don't know how noticeable/quick it is at that age. I'd be scared to have to actually start the shed for her (she's so darn tiny) but she ain't moving much in there right now.

[Rushthezeppelin]

I'm really not sure, I put her back and while there's the lengthwise folds on her she doesn't seem to have any vertical folds when she curves. I'll observe her for a little bit in the morning. Perhaps try some more worms with her.

[Albert Clark]

IMO, I would stick with the hydration, moist paper towels , humid hide and water bowl as ways to energize her. Then feedings. Adequate hydration is the mainstay for homeostasis and precedes nutrition. Remember the cloaca is like a sponge so the moist paper towels is a good way to ensure that she is receiving hydration. I recall when my granite checkered runt looked like she wasn't going to survive after she was born. Then , one day she expelled some fluid (clear) from her mouth and hasn't looked back. She still drank water but wouldn't eat for like a week. I don't know if that fluid came from her lungs, g.i. tract or just a kind of mucus plug. Oh, guess I got side tracked. :D :D

[Rushthezeppelin]

Pretty sure she's hardly moved since last night. She seemed pretty lethargic too last night. When I put her in the shed box she moved all of 2" and didn't move again, she's usually slow but much more inquisitive. She doesn't appear to have breathing trouble though and she's at least got some fat built up on her. I'll check on her again at lunch I suppose.

[guidofatherof5]

I would check for a retained shed now.

[guidofatherof5]

How long did you leave her in the shed box and what kind of shed box do you use? A great place to check for a stuck shed is where the cloaca meets the side of the snake. Hold that area under running lukewarm water and rub that area with your finger.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Hmmm had her in the shed box for about an hour. Small rub with holes and shredded wet paper towels as well as a rough rock. Tried my best to maintain it at 85. I'll try cloaca rubbing here in a bit. She has shown slight improvement though. She's a tad bit more active and alert and moving a tad more so that's a good sign. Shes in her own critter keeper now so there's chance of the other causing her undo stress. Got the humid hide and a rock in there too. So often do little neonates shed usually? I'm assuming it's more often than the once a month or so of young adults like Delilah.

[Albert Clark]

Actually the frequency of young garters shedding is normally every 4 to 5 weeks to keep pace with rapid growth. Mature snakes less frequently. Different factors such as illness and injury and pregnancy can affect shedding frequency and quality. :cool:

[Rushthezeppelin]

I guess yearling would be the more apt term then sorry.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Sadly Betty did not make it through the night :( Still can't really seem to tell what happened, but unfortunately she lost her fight.

[Albert Clark]

Sadly Betty did not make it through the night :( Still can't really seem to tell what happened, but unfortunately she lost her fight.
Wow! I totally did not expect that! So sorry for your loss. I know that its a hard pill to swallow. My condolences. In the natural, garters are such a fragile species especially as hatchlings and juveniles. You and all of us here also know you did your best and sometimes our best isn't enough. I always thought that was why garters produce so many offspring, bc the mortality and morbidity is so high. :( :( :(

[Rushthezeppelin]

Thanks for the kind words Albert. I've been telling myself all morning that she's just vulnerable as a little scrub. I understand lots of things can happen and sometimes they can be born with a defect. I'm assuming she was probably less than a month old (Tommy would know better than I). In hindsight though perhaps I should have QTed her separately from the bigger girls but she didn't really show signs of being stressed by that. I don't know : /

[Rushthezeppelin]

On a possitive note the other girls are doing good. Joan is still being picky about eating (eating some but not filling herself) but she doesn't seem to be losing weight and I'd imagine she's just still getting used to her new home. Eliza is as ravenous as ever about food. Just trying to keep things fresh for them in QT by rearranging things for them every time I change their bedding (every 2-3 days, they are poop monsters).

[Albert Clark]

Yeah, got you. I understand totally. The susceptibility of hatchlings overall is a thin line. I did think she was older though. You said less than 1 month? The whole shjpping experience and new environment. Like you said who knows what congenital defects she had. We all do the best we can and hope for the best. Sorry again.

[Tommytradix]

Betty was a cb from a wc. I only kept 3 of the 37 or so scrubs born she seemed to be thriving and was about 7 weeks old when I sent her but I know as well as anyone things can turn fast with babies Sorry to hear she's gone

[Tommytradix]

On a possitive note the other girls are doing good. Joan is still being picky about eating (eating some but not filling herself) but she doesn't seem to be losing weight and I'd imagine she's just still getting used to her new home. Eliza is as ravenous as ever about food. Just trying to keep things fresh for them in QT by rearranging things for them every time I change their bedding (every 2-3 days, they are poop monsters).its not good to let them gorge themselves Joan is just trained to eat what she needs lol

[Rushthezeppelin]

Betty was a cb from a wc. I only kept 3 of the 37 or so scrubs born she seemed to be thriving and was about 7 weeks old when I sent her but I know as well as anyone things can turn fast with babies Sorry to hear she's gone

Didn't know she was that old, okay. I guess scrubs come in all sizes, especially in a big litter? Thanks for the condolences though, and thanks for letting her have a home with me for her short time.

[Tommytradix]

Eastern babies are one of the smallest

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry to hear about your loss. R.I.P. Betty

[AntTheDestroyer]

Sorry for the loss Rush. At least you gave the little girl the best life she could have while she was around.

[guidofatherof5]

There were many indicator of a possible retained shed. A moist shed box isn't usually enough for some of these snakes, a wet shed box is. At times they will have to stay in a shed box for as much as 24 or more hours unless you intervene and help them get the shed off.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Well Eliza is in blue again already. Eyes were milky and all her colors very faded and kinda pastelish. Gonna try and let her do her thing but I'm keeping an eye out for any problems. I don't foresee any though as she performed her last shed flawlessly.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Forgot to update, Eliza had another perfect shed a on Sunday. Joan has been acting a little out of the ordinary (what little I have of her ordinary behavior). I left the humid hide in there and she has spent alot of the past 4 days in there, sometimes hours at a time. She didn't seem to show any hints of being in blue and considering her skimpy appetite I'm sure she's not grown enough to even warrant a shed (pretty sure it's been about 3 weeks now since she shed last maybe less). Is this concerning? I'm just a bit worried she's gonna go getting herself scale rot sitting in there so long but I'd imagine she would come out and dry herself when she feels it absolutely necessary. Should I be concerned any? Perhaps she thinks my ambient here (usually around 40-50) is too dry?

[guidofatherof5]

I don't think you should be too concerned. Keep the shed box clean as garters love to poop in water and moist areas. Less then 3 weeks since the last shed is nothing to worry about without other indicators that she needs to shed.

[Albert Clark]

I don't think you have much to worry about bc shedding is a cycle that has to run its course. It can vary on the duration and coincides with food intake and growth. Scale rot doesn't usually occur from just moisture it comes from the associated unsanitary conditions of the enclosure floor as well. Just be sure to go in and change the substrate or at least spot clean.

[Tommytradix]

She shed for me about once a month you have to take into account that she is a runt and won't grow much more

[Rushthezeppelin]

I figured she just liked taking saunas lol. She seems to just love water in general. In the the tank these are eventually going into I've built a water feature (almost done with the waterfall but the pond is complete) and she absolutely LOVES swimming in it. She goes diving in it and flicking her tongue around all underwater and trying to probe the rocks for crevaces (I made sure to fill around the big rocks with tiny pebbles as much as possibly so they wouldn't get stuck or have a rock roll onto em). Can't wait to get the rest of this big project done. And yes I've been changing PT bedding every 2 days since they got here (sometimes only one day if I fed them the same day as the last change....little poop monsters lol).

[Rushthezeppelin]

Wow so I buggered up.....but got very lucky. Last night I got in my Delilah's viv to give her some worms, she's in shed but even then she rarely turns down a meal (far from a problem eater lol). So I turn lights off and go to bed, wake up today and go to work. A full 8 hour work day later I drop by my apartment before having to make a swing by my office only to find that I left her viv wide open (this is a wood viv with sliding glass front doors and maybe a 2" lip so nothing at all to stop her). Amazingly she was curled up near her basking spot, still nice and in blue. She went probably about 20 hours with her viv open and didn't even think about escaping. Granted she was mostly blind in shed and a full belly, so she probably doesn't want to do much of anything besides bask at this point. I still have to think I'm doing something right though in my husbandry (besides obviously leaving the viv open ><) to have that happen.

[guidofatherof5]

I have some that refuse to leave their enclosure and others that plot against me for a split second escape.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Joans been plotting on me. I rearranged their thank to have one of the branches kinda pointed up a bit. Sure enough I come home and she's gotten herself half wedged up over the rim and under the topper >< Good thing I have about 3 lbs of bullets in boxes holding down one side and 2 clips on the other so it's "should" be escape proof. Of course you never know when a snake will pull a Houdini on you like Albert's corn did lol. Still seems doubly odd that my WC is the one without even thinking about escaping when given almost a full day to do so and one of my CBs is probing the defenses like crazy on the other tank ^_^

[Albert Clark]

Nice Rush. You have the fantastic club garter enclosure haha. They are all in the sauna or otherwise enjoying themselves. Mine are in 10 gallon quarantine tanks. I did try to make it comfortable with the varying temperate zones and a couple of hides. But that was a kingsnake and her first night in a new enclosure. Lol. Actually her second night so still very much acclimating.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Speaking of acclimating, Joan finally ate her first decent enough meal to where I could see a bulge in her belly. Good sign that she is finally getting comfortable. Also Delilah just had a perfect shed yesterday morning and ate a pink again (fish scented although I wonder if I needed to as she seemed more like she just wanted privacy for her meal than the fish smell). Eliza is same as always, super active and super hungry lol. I think she's already put 1 1/2" to 2" on in her last two sheds.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Been a good while on updating. As of the other day though Joan and Elizah are out of quarantine and are now being cohabed with Delilah. I decided to use the opportunity to go ahead and get them on a bioactive setup. I would have done them in the 40 I was working on but I keep changing my mind on how their water feature and such should be done and ended up deciding to go ahead and look at even bigger before they get the water feature as their land was only going to be 2x2 and I felt they will outgrow that fairly quick. So I decided to go ahead and do a bit more of a basic land only setup in a 20h I have for the time being. The 40 is going to be used for the plant filtering sump on the water feature so I wanted it available for that.

So far everything is great and I gave them time to meet eachother in the open area of my bedroom where I can easily coral them but not make them meet eachother in a more confined space. Joan and Eliza were just as interested in her as she was of them. She didn't shy away, just lots of tongue flicking :D So far they have been doing awesome in the setup and I've caught all three in a big ball in the basking spot once so far :D

Looks like all 3 are going into blue though. Eliza is definitely deep in blue (only way you know with albinos ^_^), Delilah just started clouding in her eyes today and Joan is probably a few days or so from being noticeable (she's had white scale tips for about a week) in her eyes. They should do great though, most people doing bioactive with snakes report great sheds even with previous problem shedders. I have plants on the cool side that I keep pretty well watered and also Delilah surprised me by burrowing under the water bowl right next to the plants effectively making a wonderful humid hide. Warm side is still bone dry with the substrate and 40%ish humidity so they have plenty of area to dry out if need be.

Pics inc.

[Rushthezeppelin]

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/AC294051-FDC2-40E5-9A51-09BAB07B1F56.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/2B5598D6-EF8F-46F8-9644-1520F9F79E59.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/F5C62E67-BD94-451D-A098-5A2C0E0FCF4A.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/BE6ACE16-6FDA-4380-84EB-7F2E88737C34.jpg

[Rushthezeppelin]

Delilahs burrow :D
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/63F73811-1971-4A1E-BA3F-520A8458E4CA.jpg

Pillbugs I collected to tidy up around the enclosure, about 30 in there even though you can't see it (will be trying to gather more tonight). There are also springtails in here but they are a bit hard to capture on camera since they are about 1mm long.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/96833FC2-C94F-4B67-BAF7-9C887FFDB2EC.jpg

[Rushthezeppelin]

BTW there are 5 hides in there (6 if you count the pothos), I made burrows under all the rocks for them (although looks like they didn't need my help). Got a nice temp gradient too from 70 on the cool side to 90 on the basking spot. They really love to explore around and dive down into the leaf litter and then periscope out at me :D

[Qwerty3159]

That's a really nice tank for them. Simple but it serves the job well and looks great.

Plenty of burrowing room!

[Rushthezeppelin]

Here in a few months they should hopefully have a 4 x 2 x 3 or 4 setup. I'm currently trying to procure a nice glass display case that I will convert into a viv with a water feature. It will obviously be bioactive (I'm sold on it based on the burrowing alone not to mention the ease of creating such a big temp gradient) but a bit more fancy with a nice background and fake vines setup for climbing room until the pothos grows in. Also plan on doing two separated basking spot and a small stream leading into the water in that setup.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Got all 3 in the same shot :D
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/8732FD03-343B-4BE4-AB7F-2CA9C7A821AC.jpg

[Qwerty3159]

Cute!

Is that other plant you have in there live? not the pothos.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Dwarf mondo grass. It has been doing awesome under my 22w grow LED. Better than I expected for a grass although it's not as light hungry as the stuff in your yard (been doing great for more than a month too as it was in the 40 when I was still working on trying to set that up, so it's already survived two transplants).