Bioactive enclosure

[Rushthezeppelin]

Figured I would go ahead and start a new thread on this. So my plan is to switch to bioactive setup when my new girls come out of QT in about 3 months. In the mean time I figured I could get my colony of cleanup crew and the substrate started up in a rub.

So I started with a 50/50 mix of Jiffy Natural & Organic Seed Starting Mix and ecoearth. This should keep the soil aired out enough to not hold a ton of moisture but enough for the cleanup crew and the Pothos plant that will also be in the enclosure.

I also topped off my soil mix with a ton of oak leaf litter to get my springtails started. There might have been a few in there but most of it was rather dry so I need to go down to the nearby creek and find some wetter ditritous that should hold more critters. I'm going to try and be all local with my cleanup crew. Will also be setting out some halved potatos to attract my isopods (pill bugs).

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11049673_961182127278932_3912998049386713697_n.jpg ?oh=61e0a46e7309309b87f8e39a9f852a87&oe=566EEC85

[Albert Clark]

Wow, looks amazing!

[Rushthezeppelin]

Well I'm currently working on my first bioactive system in a viv (last one is just going to be my bin for mass culturing the cleanup crews in case I need to replenish other tanks). This is going to house the girls together once QT is done until they are full grown and I get did done with my 6' wide viv (then this one will house males). Starting off with a 40 breeder, put a divider in as I'm going to have a very wet soil area for creekside plants along with a pond running basically underneath that soil to keep it constantly moist. There will be an open part of the pond for the girls to swim and maybe catch fish in and a waterfall feeding it.
https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/q83/s720x720/11947594_969469323116879_2516171614426638907_n.jpg ?oh=af9fc87889fe7088a60202aeb127b066&oe=56A74A27

[Rushthezeppelin]

Getting closer to done with this project.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/BC24CB7D-71E7-4512-B13C-79866BECA17E.jpg

Still need to finish my waterfall setup and pumphouse cover but the pond is basically done otherwise and I have the pump keeping things fresh. Need to also build a extension top to this thing, since I obviously have that hill built up quite a bit. Need to get a good plant light and then plant the soil up, then add my bugs and let them establish themselves. I've already added some millipedes to the setup to get those started, pill bugs and springtails I'm probably going to order as it's too dry to find any numbers of them outside.

I also have been letting the albino radix girls test things out along the way for me. I will say one thing, these snakes LOVE water but they have also enjoyed exploring all the other nooks n crannies in here.

Here's Joan enjoying the pond:
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/74718015-981D-4C70-8ED8-2B84C9EDF011.jpg

Exploring the cave:
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/32D2EAC9-4ECE-41A0-9EC5-B697F5EE88C7.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/D103E086-95F7-4F26-BA6E-3497900D688D.jpg

BTW the cave is a really awesome rock I found that was literally two feeder tubes parallel to feed water to stalactites in a cave. The rock at some point sheered perfectly in the middle of the two tubes and left me with an awesome little natural hide.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/0681FFC6-533C-4516-8E28-2C2688E47A13.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/Rushthezeppelin/F11B60E3-02AF-42B2-9921-8270744BDFE3.jpg

I also made small burrows under each rock I put in there so there is tons of natural cover. So far they have only used the cave though. I made sure all the rock (including in the pond) were nice and secure too so they don't get crushed but so far I'm loving the look of this and can't wait to get plants in.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks good.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Also just to be clear, the mix in the first post was bupkis. I'm now using a mix that is 3 parts organic topsoil to 1 part sand with a crapton of crushed leaflitter thrown in for food for the custodians. I will also be adding some whole leaf litter on most of the tank too....it's kinda a natural mulch and helps hold moisture for the plants and the custodians in parts of the tank. It will get nice and dry at the top of the hill and up on Pride Rock there (obvious basking point is obvious). I will probably have a succulent up on top of the hill, pothos on the back wall to climb around on all that coir matting, a fern up front next to the pond and a small bushy grass species somewhere up front too.

[Eddie]

That is an awesome set up! Let us know how it works out.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Should be fully up and running in the next week or two then the radix go in. Then when their quarantine is up I'll introduce my checkered girl into there.

[Jeff B]

That is a great setup. I have a cracked 125 gal aquarium that I want to turn into a vivarium. Might be a good winter project.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Holy crap I would love to work with that. I had an idea pop in my head today to create a tank with a stream/moat going from the side to the front to the side that would be great in such a big tank. And yes, feel free to steal my idea if you want.

[joeysgreen]

IME, don't waste all the work on a cracked tank. Even if it doesn't leak, you'll end up kicking yourself as the crack gnaws at your need for perfection.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Mehh if the crack is on one of the long sides he can always put that in the back and create a foam background or at least throw some coir hanging basket liner on the back. Even on the sides it' don't hurt,especially since garters feel less secure when surrounded completely by glass (IME).

[joeysgreen]

I agree, but the crack would still bug me.

[Rushthezeppelin]

wouldn't bug me one bit but then I'm all about practicality above all else

[Rushthezeppelin]

Well after alot of discussion I'm going another step further with this. So my water feature would be pretty clean and all until the garters decide to poop in there. The size of snake poop compared to slow diffusion of ammonia from fish gills means that ammonia would obviously spike up in the enclosure. Will I'm sure it's normal in our enclosures and in the wild for our garters to sometimes sit in or drink some spoiled water I figured why not try and provide some serious filtration so that the ammonia levels are nice and low within ideally a few hours. The idea evolved from the original idea on a facebook group to incorporate an aquaponics system into the water feature. The other option with water features is frequent full water changes which is a pain. While doable on a large scale there seems to be two slight flaws with going the traditional route. First off traditional aquaponics is designed around a constant low level supply of waste from fish to feed the plants. As we know though alot of herps (sans turtles and very aquatic frogs) poop infrequently and vary from herp to herp on how much they poop in their water. Therefore you would have spikes of waste in the system then nothing at all for who knows how long which would not be good for plant growth..

So this led us down a new path of looking at plants used specifically to clean water. As of right now I'm planning out a system where I will have the water feature drain into a shallow sump below the tank with duckweed. The beauty of duckweed (and other plants like water cress and hyacinth) is they have the ability to soak up lots of waste in a very short period of time and use it over long periods. This is obviously ideal for a semi aquatic herp setup. Also just for good measure I'm also going to tie a system in for guppie breeding. I'm going to have two small tanks and two big tanks. Small tanks will be one for brood stock (probably 3 females and a male) and one for birthing/growing fry out. Other two tanks will be further growout and segregated by sex so as to control breeding. I should produce way more than enough with this so I might have to get a predatory fish setup at some point to take care of my excess lol.

[Albert Clark]

Sounds like one serious bio active enviornment you are building! Congrats on the engineering and much success to you.

[joeysgreen]

I agree that plants are a good step in the right direction but you won't have enough for complete balance... your snake will definitely be able to make a gross overload of waste. Think of the food pyramid... which can be matched to the ecosystem pyramid. How much plants do you need to support one snake? It's more like an 1/2 an acre, not a square metre or two. That, and you can't have a closed system... because you are always inputting. You feed your snake and that prey has to go somewhere after the snake is done with it. Plants will grow, but not enough to compensate in a small enclosure.

You are putting a lot of time and effort into this... I would strongly encourage a flow-through enclosure. Drill a drain into the bottom. Water goes in through the top via misting, water fall, whatever, picks up wastes like ammonia and carries it out the bottom. You have the choice to use fresh water as an input, or filter the waste water and recycle it. Either way, an external filter allows larger filtration and easier cleaning. You still want a bioactive substrate and living plants to cycle the solid wastes that don't get carried out the bottom.

I hope this helps, or at least gets the wheels turning some more :)

[Jeff B]

Do you have a sponge between the lava rock and the soil? Where did you buy that and what does it look like?

[Rushthezeppelin]

I agree that plants are a good step in the right direction but you won't have enough for complete balance... your snake will definitely be able to make a gross overload of waste. Think of the food pyramid... which can be matched to the ecosystem pyramid. How much plants do you need to support one snake? It's more like an 1/2 an acre, not a square metre or two. That, and you can't have a closed system... because you are always inputting. You feed your snake and that prey has to go somewhere after the snake is done with it. Plants will grow, but not enough to compensate in a small enclosure.

You are putting a lot of time and effort into this... I would strongly encourage a flow-through enclosure. Drill a drain into the bottom. Water goes in through the top via misting, water fall, whatever, picks up wastes like ammonia and carries it out the bottom. You have the choice to use fresh water as an input, or filter the waste water and recycle it. Either way, an external filter allows larger filtration and easier cleaning. You still want a bioactive substrate and living plants to cycle the solid wastes that don't get carried out the bottom.

I hope this helps, or at least gets the wheels turning some more :)

Actually the specific plants I'm using for this are perfect for the application (I assume you are talking about my water filter system). Floating plants have an amazing ability to soak up LOTS of waste in a matter of hours. Also this is only to buffer the occasional poop in the water (I've only had all 3 of my girls do it twice in 2 months).

Also I am using a flow through system for this....water will come down waterfall from the filter system into the water feature. Then it will have a surface drain to maintain constant water level that will drain down into the filter system (it's basically best described as a fresh water refugium really).

[Rushthezeppelin]

And if you are talking about the land section not being in balance you are wrong. Not sure what your intent was but you haven't replied so I will answer for both possible questions. I know the density of a snake in an area might be 1 to 1/2 an acre in some cases but this does not mean you need half an acre of plants to accommodate for waste. For one there are MANY other animals sharing that half acre with them, many that are much larger and higher metabolism and poop more. Two it's not just plants taking care of waste, it is primarily the inverts used in the system that convert the waste into something that isn't harmful to your herps and is beneficial to plants (technically you don't need the plants in this type of system and some people have herps that destroy them anyway). You have springtails to quickly eliminate the bulk of the wastes mass in usually 24 hours or less and spread it then the isopods do the rest of the job of turning it into natural fertilizer (there are also detritivores that can be used in the system too). There are also aerobic microbes in that system as well. It's not an exact replication of their natural ecosystem but it is a minimal input balanced artificial ecosystem if you will. All that needs to be added is food for the herps, water for the plants and herps and the occasional leaf litter to help sustain high populations of the cleanup crews. Hope one of these posts clears things up for you depending on what your intent was.

[Albert Clark]

Are slugs part of that mini Eco system? And what is their function besides being a potential prey item in the system?

[Rushthezeppelin]

Most people don't tend to use slugs as in addition to eating detritus, most species like live plants too. Obviously they aren't going to last long enough to reproduce in a garter tank anywho lol.

[guidofatherof5]

That's if your garters will eat them. I've had some T. radix that love them and others that refuse to eat them.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Interesting. Well then ya besides the eating plants part common garden slugs are great for keeping things clean (even though you would think the opposite with how slimy they are).