Well I finally caved and took your advice now I have a sick snake.

[AntTheDestroyer]

Well you all officially scared me into to treating my cages with provent-a-mite. I treated the substrate and let it dry for over an hour before putting my young California red sided garter back in. I followed the direction on the label, which in my opinion are incredibly vague. I treated yesterday afternoon and checked on him periodically through out the day. I walked into the room thirty minutes ago and he was not hiding which is weird for this time of night. I looked closer and noticed that he seems to be having seizures. For the last thirty minutes he has been moving his head around wildly while opening and closing his mouth. I am not sure if the treatment caused this but it just seems like too big of a coincidence. Does anyone know what this could be and what I can do for him? Please I am really worried.

[guidofatherof5]

Remove the snake immediately and wash it off. Keeping the snake out of that enclosure.

[guidofatherof5]

This sounds like a reaction I've seen in a very small percentage of snakes to Provent-a-mite.

[guidofatherof5]

Please keep up posted about this situation.

[AntTheDestroyer]

Ok he is out. Now do I just wait?

[guidofatherof5]

If you can get some air flowing around him that might help. Did you wash him off?
Yes, all you can do now is wait. I so sorry to here this was happening.

[Tommytradix]

is he on rodents or fish?

[d_virginiana]

I don't have much experience with this at all (never seen this reaction to PAM) but it might be a good idea to give him a supervised drink of water... Like, supporting his neck so that his chin is barely touching the water so he can get a drink if he wants, then lifting him back away once he's done. I've noticed very sick snakes often won't drink on their own, and I can't imagine how being well-hydrated could possible make the situation worse, but it might help a bit.
Also if the water dish is large enough for him to swim in, I think it would be good to replace it with something small enough that he can only drink out of it. You don't want him to crawl into the water for whatever reason and suddenly have a seizure.

[guidofatherof5]

I don't suggest water at this point. Provent a mite reactions cause neurological problem so being in or around water could be dangerous.

[d_virginiana]

Listen to Steve, not me!


I don't suggest water at this point. Provent a mite reactions cause neurological problem so being in or around water could be dangerous.

So would you suggest totally removing the water dish for now? If so, how often/when is it safe to offer water? (I'm curious, but mainly for clarification for Ant)

[guidofatherof5]

Once the snake returns to normal movements and actions it can be replaced.

[AntTheDestroyer]

If you can get some air flowing around him that might help. Did you wash him off?
Yes, all you can do now is wait. I so sorry to here this was happening.
Yes I did. I used a mild soap as well but kept is away from the sensitive areas.


is he on rodents or fish?
He has been on scented pinky mice consistently for a month or so now.


I don't suggest water at this point. Provent a mite reactions cause neurological problem so being in or around water could be dangerous.
Good to know. I hope he will be ok.

[AntTheDestroyer]

Unfortunately he did not make it through the night. This was my worst fear about treating for mites when I was not even sure they had spread. This has been a terrible two weeks with dealing with the first snake debacle and now this. I am so upset right now. What a complete waste of money and especially a life.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm very sorry to here this. My condolences.

[Albert Clark]

So sorry to hear this story and it's so unusual for this to occur. When you initially treated the enclosure did you remove the water dish? I know this is after the fact but the water dish should be removed prior to the enclosure being treated.

[Albert Clark]

Ant, I really feel partly responsible for this and I am willing to partner with other forum members to replace your California red sided. I can go half or 1 third the cost to be mailed to Jeff as soon as possible. If Jeff still has any left. Steve, is that something you will be willing to do? Are there any way other members will partner in to help Ant get a replacement red sided garter?

[AntTheDestroyer]

I appreciate your words and actions Albert. I did remove the water bowl and did not put it back in the cage until the snake went back in.

[Tommytradix]

Unfortunately he did not make it through the night. This was my worst fear about treating for mites when I was not even sure they had spread. This has been a terrible two weeks with dealing with the first snake debacle and now this. I am so upset right now. What a complete waste of money and especially a life.
sorry to hear. ive been treating monthly with provent-a-mite for about 6 months now and have never had a problem. last year i had a concinnus die from seizures because of an all fish diet. she wouldnt eat anything else.

[guidofatherof5]

Ant, I really feel partly responsible for this and I am willing to partner with other forum members to replace your California red sided. I can go half or 1 third the cost to be mailed to Jeff as soon as possible. If Jeff still has any left. Steve, is that something you will be willing to do? Are there any way other members will partner in to help Ant get a replacement red sided garter?

I too am willing to help pay for a replacement.

[guidofatherof5]

I left a message at Jeff's home to give me a call to discuss this situation.

[Albert Clark]

Let's see if we can get Jeff to go in with us and and make this happen within the next couple of days. Maybe two more members will chime in with their pledges.

[guidofatherof5]

Any help would be appreciated in this situation. I'll report back as soon as I hear from Jeff.

[Albert Clark]

Sounds great then Steve! Do you think we should move this to a different venue or start a new thread to request a replacement red sided garter for Ant?

[guidofatherof5]

If AntTheDestroyer doesn't mind we could continue on in this thread to keep it all together.

It looks like Jeff accepts PayPal for anyone wishing to help.

[Albert Clark]

Sounds good! I will paypal a 60.00 payment tomorrow. How much will you do Steve?

[guidofatherof5]

Let's first hear AntTheDestroyer's thought/feelings on this idea. I think that is important.

[Albert Clark]

Ok. I'm on it. Let's see.

[Zdravko092368]

Really sorry to hear what happened, while thousands of people use prevent a mite without an issue I guess sometimes things can happen,unfortunate that you lost your snake but hopefully the awesome members of this forum can figure out a way to replacehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/#83816086) your animal. Maybe this could be used as a learning experience for us that extra caution should be taken with young garters and prevent a mite, possibly giving it extra time tohttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/#95448123) dry to be on the safehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/#86703243) side considering how small the snakes are?

[Rushthezeppelin]

So sorry to see this ant. I feel kinda bad as I was going to throw out there possibly the use of predatory mites. Supposedly they kill snake mites and then die out when their food source is gone. Don't know if anyone here has experience. Sure scares the heck out of me though and I'm always going to make sure to be vigilant about QT. You can put me down for $10 towards a new garter for him.

[guidofatherof5]

So sorry to see this ant. I feel kinda bad as I was going to throw out there possibly the use of predatory mites. Supposedly they kill snake mites and then die out when their food source is gone. Don't know if anyone here has experience. Sure scares the heck out of me though and I'm always going to make sure to be vigilant about QT. You can put me down for $10 towards a new garter for him.

Predatory mites have been discussed on this forum before I'll see if I can locate the old thread for you.

[AntTheDestroyer]

Sorry for the late reply but I started school again today. Quite the crappy start to the semester, but life isn't always roses and posies. I am blown away by all the kindness being offered by the people on this site. I am definitely willing to pay some money as when it comes down to it I administered the treatment. That being said I also don't want to put people back as I understand money is tight for some folks and this is not a cheap snake. Also I do not mind keeping everything on this thread.

[AntTheDestroyer]

Oh and thank you all, especially guido and Albert. You have made a hard day a bit easier. I am glad I found this community.

[guidofatherof5]

Let's see what we can do as a group to see what money we have. Then we'll get a hold of you to see how to proceed. How does that sound Ant.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Don't mention it Ant...I ain't doing too bad myself so don't even sweat it. The important part is we can help make your thamly whole again.

[Albert Clark]

Once again Ant, I recommended the prophylactic treatment and I feel partly to blame for what happened to the little guy so I will do what I feel is the right thing and contribute to a new replacement animal for you. You are quite welcome and glad that this will be some consolation. I will be sending Jeff my part tomorrow by pay pal. I can do 60.00

[snakeman]

Was this a adult snake

[AntTheDestroyer]

Let's see what we can do as a group to see what money we have. Then we'll get a hold of you to see how to proceed. How does that sound Ant.
That sounds great.

Was this a adult snake
It was not.

[Eddie]

I can offer a killer looking ery/flame eastern 100% het albino. Eats f/t extra small pinks
Just need a shipping address.

[guidofatherof5]

That is a very generous offer Eddie.

[AntTheDestroyer]

Thank you Eddie your offer is very touching. I honestly don't have any interest in the ery flame easterns, and I would rather he went to someone who appreciates what he is.

[AntTheDestroyer]

Just an update for you guys. Jeff sent me an email last night offering me a replacement for the snake that passed. Even though he had nothing to do with the passing of the first snake he is willing to help me out free of charge, what a great guy. I very much appreciate all that offered to help replace my little Shy but I wouldn't feel right taking your money. This is the perfect situation in my mind. You are all a great group of people and I am glad you all accepted me into your community. On a side note I think there should be some discussion on the use of provent-a-mite for garters especially young ones. I just don't want anyone to go through what Shy and I did. I have sent an email to the makers of provent-a-mite so we will see what they have to say.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm going to post a thread about this situation along with usage suggestions and warnings. Hope to get it started and done later this day.

[AntTheDestroyer]

Thank you Steve.

[guidofatherof5]

Thank you Jeff for your generous help in this situation. A thank you to everyone who offered to help also. Quality over quantity on this forum.

[Albert Clark]

YW Ant, I am so glad that this was able to materialize so quickly. I know how saddened the loss must have on you. That's why I thought stepping up to the plate was the thing to do in this type of situation. I am happy to see this come to a positive ending and its amazing what teamwork can do. And its evidenced by this garter snake family. Thanks Steve and Jeff for all your outstanding work and thank you to all the thamly who stepped up.

[snakeman]

Long time ago I killed an adult hognose with this stuff. It was probally about 15 years ago. Pretty sure it was the same stuff. I wouldn't use it on anything. Sorry about your snake

[AntTheDestroyer]

Thank you snakeman. I am pretty sure I will never use it again as well. I am liking the idea if preditory mites if I ever have a problem again but hopefully that will not happen.