Got Dekayi Babies? I Do!!

[boyer45]

Well, I thought I had two Storeria Dekayi boys.....Until I woke up one morning and had about six more. I was so excited! Then I woke up two days later and had about 15 more.:eek: They are the cutest little things. I let most of them go but kept some too. I don't have slugs in my yard but have plenty of night crawlers. I have been feeding them the babies and cutting up bigger ones. I give the moms night crawlers but do a calcium supplement and I am wondering if I should do a vitamin supplement as well. I don't know what else to feed them. It doesn't seem to be a great diet. Any other ideas on what to give them? Here's some pics of the little guys.

[Rushthezeppelin]

OMG they are so tiny!!!

[guidofatherof5]

Very small earthworms and slugs are a good way to get them eating.

[Zdravko092368]

Did they actually eat nightcrawler pieces and how long after they were born did they take them? My dekays gave birth to 16 babies 3 days ago and this afternoon I only managed to have 6 eat of the 16, 5 ate slugs and 1 ate a worm piece but it's the tiny garden worms not nightcrawler which seems too big even cut up.

I catch slugs by putting wooden boards or flat stones in my garden/yard and watering underneath them so they'll stay moist.

Also yes, they sure are born tiny, mine couldn't be more than 3 inches long and thin like spaghetti.

[boyer45]

I have been digging up the baby nightcrawlers from my yard. They are the really tiny bright red ones, I assume they are night crawlers because my yard is full of them.I also started buying small night crawlers them from a bait shop.I cut the thinner ones into mouth size pieces. Mine started eating the day after they were born. It's hard to to tell whose eating since they all look alike, but I feed them everyday so if I miss some they can eat. I have two tiny babies that I hunt down to make sure they have some too. I got my first experience with food aggression the other day when two of them were fighting over the same piece of worm. Yikes!!

[Zdravko092368]

Doesn't sound like the typical Lumbricus terrestris, which is the nightcrawlers I have in my yard, they only come out at night after it rains. I believe this is the species fed in captivity and referred to as the Canadian nightcrawler or dew worm. The ones you are digging up are probably a smaller earthworm species and the same type i've been using with my browns, they live closer to the surface.

[boyer45]

Could be, I am definitely not a worm expert. I do know that I found a nightcrawler bigger than my adult Dekayi when I was digging the other day, it was huge. I have been buying baby nightcrawlers from a bait shop and they have been eating these too.

[Zdravko092368]

Could be, I am definitely not a worm expert. I do know that I found a nightcrawler bigger than my adult Dekayi when I was digging the other day, it was huge. I have been buying baby nightcrawlers from a bait shop and they have been eating these too.


Just make sure they are actually nightcrawlers and not red wigglers which can be toxic.


And yes nightcrawlers can live over six years and become monsters, if you go out at night after a thunderstorm you will find massive ones. The largest i found in my backyard was 16 inches, bigger than any dekays I've ever seen.

[guidofatherof5]

Most red worms wouldn't be found in the soil. Might just be young night crawlers. The earthworms I mentioned are usually the Rosy-tipped worm - Aporrectodea rosea,

How to identify: the Rosy-tipped worm | OPAL (http://www.opalexplorenature.org/rosy-tipped-worm)

[Zdravko092368]

Most red worms wouldn't be found in the soil. Might just be young night crawlers. The earthworms I mentioned are usually the Rosy-tipped worm - Aporrectodea rosea,

How to identify: the Rosy-tipped worm | OPAL (http://www.opalexplorenature.org/rosy-tipped-worm)

Yup, you don't really have to worry about the worms you dig up in your yard. I was more concerned that the bait shop may be mislabeling red wigglers as young nightcrawlers.

[boyer45]

Thanks so much for the information about the worms.The pet shop I was going to ,before I found the bait shop, sold me red wrigglers and told me they were fine for my adult snakes! No the ones from the bait shop are nightcrawlers and Steve I have found the earthworms you are talking about in my yard too. I just wish I knew if they ate anything else besides worms and slugs. My snakes seem to be doing okay but I thought they would have to have a more varied diet to be as healthy as they can be. Thanks again!!

[guidofatherof5]

HerpNet.net - Iowa Reptiles and Amphibians - Brown Snake - Storeria dekayi (http://www.herpnet.net/Iowa-Herpetology/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44&Itemid=26)

[Zdravko092368]

They have been knows to eat snails as well as rarely insect grubs/larvae, other than that I have heard of adult females eating extremely small worm scented pinky mice.

[guidofatherof5]

Witnesses a group of neonates start feeding on snails(pulling them from the shell) seconds after I released them into their home habitat.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Wouldn't the shell actually be some good calcium for them or are they probably unable to break them down?

[guidofatherof5]

Might be but they do have some sharp edges. The newborns I released knew what to do. They were all over those snails.

[Rushthezeppelin]

I'm assuming they probably eat them whole in the wild though if they are able.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm assuming they probably eat them whole in the wild though if they are able.

I've never read it or seen it, yet. My guess would be what the neonates were doing is stand for all of the ages.

[Zdravko092368]

I've never read it or seen it, yet. My guess would be what the neonates were doing is stand for all of the ages.
(http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/#63876670)

Yup, pretty sure dekays have special teeth specifically for pulling snails from their shells. I think i'm going to have to go on a bike ride to a nearby field and collecthttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/#65793375) some snails for my dekayi scrubs after you mentioned how readily they took them upon release.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Interesting

[Rushthezeppelin]

Found a reference to it, sure enough they have specialized teeth https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=X5lccUgyxDIC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=Hard%C2%ADing,+J.+1997.+Am%C2%ADphib%C2%ADians+ and+Rep%C2%ADtiles+of+the+Great+Lakes+Re%C2%ADgion .+storeria+dekayi&ots=8wP5s4TDxy&sig=O0B0lDHUiE8sMEdNqNxmCJb8Jp8#v=onepage&q=storeria%20dekayi&f=false

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like there are a couple studies that mention the "Specialize teeth"

Harding, J. 1997. Amphibians and Reptiles of the Great Lakes Region. Ann Arbor: The University of Michigan Press


Ditmars, R. 1936. The Reptiles of North America. New York: Doubleday, Doran and Company, Inc..

I'll see if they are available for viewing.

[guidofatherof5]

That you Steve Schmidt for putting onto the track of this. Not the link you sent me but this should work.
worldbiodiversity [licensed for non-commercial use only] / Storeria occipitomaculata (http://worldbiodiversity.pbworks.com/w/page/66836924/Storeria%20occipitomaculata)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/storeria.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/storeria1.jpg

[Rushthezeppelin]

Super cool.

[guidofatherof5]

Here is the study Steve Schmidt wanted me to post. This is by Rossman and directly talks about snail extraction by the Brown snake - Storeria dekayi Thanks again Steve Schmidt.

http://worldbiodiversity.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/66838018/RossmanMyerStoreria1990.pdf

[guidofatherof5]

The sequential photo is awesome in this study. Great read.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Cool study but I kind of cringed at their substrate choice.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks kind of like vermiculite to me. What do you think it is rushthezepplin?

[Rushthezeppelin]

They said it was small crushed pebbles....looks small enough I would be worried about ingestion, especially with sticky prey like gastropods.

[guidofatherof5]

Agreed.