growth around mouth

[Spacehawk]

This is a western black neck garter. He has developed this growth on his face. Has anyone ever seen anything like this?12353

[Tommytradix]

looks like mouth rot. have you noticed any labored breathing?

[Albert Clark]

Hi, sorry to see the condition of the western. Welcome to the forum and how long has he or she had the condition? What type of enclosure is he housed in and is he w/c or captive born and bred? Is he housed with other reptiles or in a enclosure by himself? Has he sustained any kind of trauma? What is he eating? Live or frozen thawed?

[Albert Clark]

Hi, sorry to see the condition of the western. Welcome to the forum and how long has he or she had the condition? What type of enclosure is he housed in and is he w/c or captive born and bred? Is he housed with other reptiles or in a enclosure by himself? Has he sustained any kind of trauma? What is he eating? Live or frozen thawed? It's hard to tell what it is. It could be what Tommy thinks and it could also be alot of different other possibilities that's why we need more of a history to make a connection with what it may be. How old is this garter?

[d_virginiana]

My gut feeling is that this is an infection caused by some sort of trauma. If you're checking on your snakes regularly I think you'd notice mouth rot before it got to this stage; it kind of takes awhile to get revved up. I've also seen things that look similar to this that can be caused by tumors, but that's not that common.

Answering the questions Albert asked will help us better assess the situation. Also, is he still able to eat? That's an important one.

In the meantime though, if he's not housed by himself, you need to separate him out. Extra snakes around could stress him when he's already not feeling well, and you don't want anyone else to catch it if it's contagious.
To help treat is (because it definitely looks infected to me) you can dilute betadine or chlorhexidine (brand name Hibiclens) in water and use a Q-tip to swab the affected area. You can find both at CVS. Hibiclens is more mild than betadine, but when I've dealt with mouth infections I usually start with the betadine, then once the infection starts to clear up switch to the Hibiclens. You can swab up to twice a day (I usually recommend once, but this looks more intense than a lot of mouth issues I've seen).

[Albert Clark]

Sorry about the double post folks. Idk what happened there.

[Albert Clark]

Yes, what Lora says and some is true. Certainly could be caused by trauma. Could also be abcess.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like an infection that can be common due to a bite from another snake or a splinter from substrate. Looks like there is also some retained shed on the lower jaw area. Hibiclens works very well. In the past I have taken my snakes to the Vet. for this situation. The Vet. takes a sterile needle and pokes the area to get the blood flowing. Then treatments with the Hibiclens(50/50 mix with water) After watching this procedure my Vet. told me to do it at home if I was comfortable with it. I've also seen this happen because of retained sheds on the lips. I would first make sure all the retained shed is removed.

[d_virginiana]

Steve walked me through how to do this procedure when I had a very small baby that got an infection from injuring himself biting the silicone on the side of his tank. Within two days the infection had cleared up almost completely. I will say it's incredibly nerve-wracking though.

[guidofatherof5]

I remember that situation. You did well.

[joeysgreen]

I would say poking it with a needle is not a good idea. It might work in many situations but the risk of causing additional damage and causing pain is not worth it. If you go to the vet and they tell you to poke it with a needle, however unlikely, at least you get someone telling you this after a first hand examination and not a blurry internet photo.

[Albert Clark]

This ^^^. And I would think there would need to be a prescription for antibiotics to prevent a secondary infection. Better safe than have it possibly worsen.

[Spacehawk]

Hey everyone wow thanks for all the replies. Ive basically been working the last 48 hrs and had not seen these responsesso let me start st the begining and if I leave anything out please ask again and I will do my best to answer, im off tomorrw so it shouldnt take me this long again... so yes he has bee to a vet and they didnt help much, they said it wasprobably some kind of tumor and likely would just be progressing thru out his life and I hate that answer bc iam seeing it progress. Yes he is housed alone in a tengallon on aspen. The only possibility of trauma would be him trying to find ways out of his home which he does spend time on but I hadnt seen any "fresh" looking wound, its kind of always looked like a growing scar. He is w/c. He was given to me 4 years ago by someone who didnt want him in their yard and knew that I kept other reptiles amd thus began my love of snakes. Thanks to him I have also learned the importance of not keeping wild snakesas pets. Let me kmow what else I can tell you. I reallycwant to help him out and any ideasor opinions are greatly appreciated

[d_virginiana]

First of all, was the vet a reptile specialist or a dog/cat vet? That makes a BIG difference in how much you want to trust their opinion.

I may not be reading your post correctly, but did you say this has pretty much always been there, just not as bad? If so I think you may be looking at a tumor. Regardless, it does look infected. So while you're figuring out what to do, I think it would be a good idea to start treating the area for infection (the hibiclens stuff I mentioned in my first post). It won't hurt anything and may help.

[Albert Clark]

Wow, this is one of the main reasons that if the snake is born free , it should live free. Of course it's too late for this little guy now. I certainly wouldn't release him into the wild now. That would be cruel and dangerous for him and other wild snakes that he comes into contact with. Did the vet suggest a biopsy of the tumor? Tumors can be excised, especially if they are not malignant. Why don't you try and see if that is a option? Good luck and hope something can be done. :( By saying it's too late, I meant too late for him to be returned to the wild! Not too late for him to be successfully treated. I just wanted to clarify that! :)

[Spacehawk]

Thanks albert. I know what you meant and yes you are absolutly right about wild snakes staying in the wild and I would never do thar again. He was my first snake andthe first yearof having him around inspired such a love for these animals that I know have many other snakes (all of which are cbb) and they have all beem perfectly healthy for the pasr few years. The vet I took him to was supposed tobe "the best herp vet" in my area and when I had him in he basically said hedidmt wanttomess with it and it would put the snake thru more trauma and suffering than the little guy deserves. they alsoput him on a round of anti biotics to see if that would help butit didnt and it seems to just be getting worse. How willi know if it is causing him pain already?

[joeysgreen]

Did the vet recommend any diagnostics or treatment plans? I understand if these are sometimes declined due to financial reasons, but that would give you a better answer than "it's probably a tumor and it'll probably progress". If they weren't recommended and you wanted to pursue such, then consider visiting a different veterinarian. Try looking at www.arav.org (http://www.arav.org) for one more familiar with reptiles. You can also talk with your local vet college, herp club, or even zoo to see who they recommend.

Ian

[guidofatherof5]

Have you removed the retained shed yet? I think you will see a vast improvement in the appearance of this infection once you do. Especially removing the shed from the upper lip. Retained sheds can trap fluids and cause these type of things. I am not a Vet. and don't claim to be one, I only can give you my personal experiences in keeping these snakes over the last 40 years. Best of luck.

[d_virginiana]

Wait... did he prescribe the antibiotics within the last couple days? If so, you won't see any improvement in that amount of time. You have to complete the entire course, and sometimes you won't see improvement till the very end. Also, if the vet didn't do a culture of the infection, the antibiotic they prescribed may not be correctly targeting the bacteria involved.

EDIT: Being as specific as you possibly can will help us give you recommendations more quickly. When you post, think of every little detail you can and write it down even if it seems like it's not important. With something that may be time-sensitive, we want to be able to help you figure out what to do immediately, which we can't do if we aren't sure about when certain things happen.

[Albert Clark]

You will know when he is in pain for the most part when his quality of life really starts to decline. He will stop eating and become listless and probably even agitated and nippy. If you can, try to take JOEYSGREEN advice and get a second opinion? If you are able and that is just a suggestion. Listen to what Steve said also about the retained shed. The tumor is in his mouth and that has to be bothersome to him. Eventually it is going to affect his ability to breathe adequately. I would try another vet soon if I was able. Good luck man, and keep us posted. :(

[Spacehawk]

I dont know that it is in his mouth, it definetely started outside of his mouth and has spread right up to it, I'll have to see if theres a different vet in a nerr by city since my previous vet seemed to feel a garter snake wasnt worth the effort :( and even went as far as to insult the his colors and appearce and brag to me about some garters in a locale in different part of the country that were "far prettier than this guy". Anyway, sorry im just mad at the vet. thanks for your help everyone and I will try my best

[Albert Clark]

We are all pulling for you and yours.That vet sounds like a imbecile! I would think he would be more sympathetic.Maybe his skills are suspect! Hard to believe he has a dvm license. Hang in there.

[d_virginiana]

Is there any way you can go to another vet office or ask to see a different vet within that office? That's a red flag that you need to find a new vet ASAP.

In the meantime, I still think hibiclens treatment would be a good idea. If it isn't already infected, it is kind of an open sore, and that would prevent infection from setting in.

Also, if she's not already, switch her to either newspaper or paper towel bedding. That way bits of dust and bedding can't get caught in the place on her mouth and irritate it.

[guidofatherof5]

Curious, is this the same snake that had a growth/blister on its throat back in 2012?

[Spacehawk]

Yes he is, He had healed into a scar andmdidnt change for a couple years. Then when it came back it started moving upwards towards the mouth, ratger rapidly. Ive been alternating novalsan and betadine a couple days a week. I am working on being able to take a day to drive to the next nearest city for him to be seen by a new vet im hoping I can do this soon.