europe

[Tommytradix]

ive always wondered why europe has such great garters lol


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[Tommytradix]

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[d_virginiana]

Those are pretty stunning. Especially the albinos with the bright reds and oranges.

I don't know how representative those garters are of the European garter hobby as a whole, but I imagine there's probably a higher concentration of individuals with desirable traits since it's kind of a hassle to ship them over, so you wouldn't want to waste that sort of time and money bringing in anything but the best.

[Albert Clark]

All those garters are amazing looking! I need one of each, haha.

[Tommytradix]

my theory is the lack of new animals leads to line breeding many generations which intensify the desired colors. for instance the red gene is very strong in them

[d_virginiana]

my theory is the lack of new animals leads to line breeding many generations which intensify the desired colors. for instance the red gene is very strong in them

Probably true. I kind of wonder what the situation with the San Frans is currently... I haven't seen any posts about them in awhile, but from what I remember people were seeing a lot of weird congenital defects likely due to the limited gene pool.

[Dan72]

Sjoerd does have some amazing looking snakes. His photography skills are pretty sick as well, he can really capture the beauty of them.

[Tommytradix]

Probably true. I kind of wonder what the situation with the San Frans is currently... I haven't seen any posts about them in awhile, but from what I remember people were seeing a lot of weird congenital defects likely due to the limited gene pool.
all ive seen is healthly looking snakes so idk

[Tommytradix]

Sjoerd does have some amazing looking snakes. His photography skills are pretty sick as well, he can really capture the beauty of them.
i need a light box ahahaha

[Tommytradix]

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​these arent the healthiest looking radix lol

[d_virginiana]

all ive seen is healthly looking snakes so idk

Yeah, from what I remember that was only a problem with the san frans since the whole European population comes from like 17 original snakes or something. I don't believe it's an issue with any of the other species.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Scott felzer sent alot of those animals over!

[slipknot711]

i need a light box ahahaha
tommy they sell small and cost effective light box setups on amazon.... very affordable

[Tommytradix]

Scott felzer sent alot of those animals over!
that was in 2007/2008 i think thats 6-7 generations ago lol

[Tommytradix]

tommy they sell small and cost effective light box setups on amazon.... very affordable
thanks ash!

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I guess what i'm trying to say is alot of our animals have these same bloodlines, but like you say we do so much outcrossing that it just keeps diluting them. We take so much for granted sometimes and worry so much about making combos and new morphs that we don't focus on line breeding for nicer looking animals. I've got 2 very nice male flame siblings that i want to breed to 2 unrelated females and then i want to hold back the female flames and breed a male from my other unrelated flame that way they will be outcrossed, but i can still breed flame to flame to produce nicer looking flames. That's just one of my plans. I want to produce some nice black on top and fire engine red on bottom flames. I love the looks of the classic flames!
that was in 2007/2008 i think thats 6-7 generations ago lol

[d_virginiana]

I want to produce some nice black on top and fire engine red on bottom flames. I love the looks of the classic flames!

I'll take a couple lol. Flames are my favorite morph.

[Albert Clark]

Put me down for a pair also. I never owned flames. Sounds exciting!:D

[BUSHSNAKE]

most of those garters are from the u.s....wheres the stuff that we don't have Tommy?:P

[Tommytradix]

most of those garters are from the u.s....wheres the stuff that we don't have Tommy?:P
i have never seen animals this high volor for sale in the us. especillay silver red sides lol and red albinos that are born red lol

[BUSHSNAKE]

i have never seen animals this high volor for sale in the us. especillay silver red sides lol and red albinos that are born red lol

hey bud other then the parietalis and probably the similis those are U.S. garters... maybe theyre just better at line breeding for red

[Tommytradix]

hey bud other then the parietalis and probably the similis those are U.S. garters... maybe theyre just better at line breeding for red
thats obvious. i was referring to the quality of the line breeding expect of coarde the high red albino which just looks crazy lol

[Zdravko092368]

most of those garters are from the u.s....wheres the stuff that we don't have Tommy?:P

They have albino chapalas in Europe, some unique form of albino sirtalis sirtlis and of course Tetrataenia... their concinnus look better, higher reds and solid red heads unlike the ones here.

[Tommytradix]

They have albino chapalas in Europe, some unique form of albino sirtalis sirtlis and of course Tetrataenia... their concinnus look better, higher reds and solid red heads unlike the ones here.
also thier crazy looking nebraska radix lol

[reptileparadise]

A lot of the animals shown on this thread are own animals. Regardless of the watermarks, I would have appreciated it if you had credited them accordingly.

In order to give you an insider vision from an actual European....

My 2 cents on the whole 'more colourful lines' thing is quite simple. Europeans like high quality and do not breed for the numbers. We breed to improve what we are seeing. Selective breeding gets you a long way and does not necessarily mean trouble.

San Frans are still kept a lot at this end, however, there was a sudden spike/hype around these guys in 2007/2008 and at some point they had prices of around 40-50€ on them (ca. 60/70 USD). People lost interest and they disappeared a bit. This happens to many snakes. Now, people are realizing they can't find tetrataenia anymore and demand is rising. VERY quickly. Health problems only occur with those breeding for numbers. Selective breeding works like a charm.

[Tommytradix]

A lot of the animals shown on this thread are own animals. Regardless of the watermarks, I would have appreciated it if you had credited them accordingly.

In order to give you an insider vision from an actual European....

My 2 cents on the whole 'more colourful lines' thing is quite simple. Europeans like high quality and do not breed for the numbers. We breed to improve what we are seeing. Selective breeding gets you a long way and does not necessarily mean trouble.

San Frans are still kept a lot at this end, however, there was a sudden spike/hype around these guys in 2007/2008 and at some point they had prices of around 40-50€ on them (ca. 60/70 USD). People lost interest and they disappeared a bit. This happens to many snakes. Now, people are realizing they can't find tetrataenia anymore and demand is rising. VERY quickly. Health problems only occur with those breeding for numbers. Selective breeding works like a charm.
sorry was just amazed at how high the quality was compared to U.S. the one red albino radix does show signs of breeding depression but i think you are doing a great job with everything.

how is the silver parietalis doing? have they bred?

[reptileparadise]

My photos are still being used without my permission.