Ooohh...that looks strange =(

[DEKAN]

Well I was cleanning the water area and then I saw a little bump on the right side of my snake :eek: ...She acts normal, but that thing wasn't there...My little sister could not take a clean shot, the snake was moving too much.

Maybe you know waht could it be :( I'm really worried about it.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3479/s5000809wg4.th.jpg (http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s5000809wg4.jpg)
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4530/s5000810af9.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s5000810af9.jpg)

:confused:

[Lulu Bennett]

a better pic might be better. but what would be a lot better would be to get it straight to the vets. i truely hope its nothing but you can never be too sure xxx

[enigma200316]

I agree....I'd take it to the vet soon as possible!!!!!

[Thamnophis]

I agree....I'd take it to the vet soon as possible!!!!!

That is probably the best thing you can do. Good luck!

[Howler]

Now I know I've seen something like that before and I've heard something similar...but I can't remember how it turned out. Let us know what the vet says, hm?

Might be some sort of liver problem but I think the liver is actually up a bit higher in garters...-drags hand down face- ...Ugh I can't remember.

Hope it turns out alright.

[adamanteus]

Hi Robert, it is hard to see exactly what we're looking at in that picture. I think a trip to the vet must be the wise course of action. In the meantime, can you post a clearer picture?

[DEKAN]

It's a little bit hard to find vets for snakes aroud here, but I'll go on Monday to an Herpetology Lab from a University, they give their services to any person that goes and needs help. If they can't find the problem there is another clinic a little bit far from my house, speciallized on wild Mexican Fauna (already sounds expensive...lol)

Here are a better shots

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4065/s5000813ca0.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s5000813ca0.jpg)

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7052/s5000812fu4.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s5000812fu4.jpg)

[DEKAN]

So...bad news and good news.

It was a worm parasite, so the fish were infected or something. Today she stayed for surgery. http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2043/908572171qg0.gif

She's going to stay at the Herpetology Lab for a month, so 50 insulin syringes were asked. Yep she is gravid...so, I think that not all the babies are gonna be mine :mad: . Sad but true.

I'm gonna visit her each week...hey they have no choice, that's why I'm paying for.

All the members that feed their snakes with fish alive, beware of parasites, so the only way to get rid of them, is with frozen fish.

[adamanteus]

Sorry to hear that Robert. But at least you caught the problem in time. Wise words about the frozen fish.

[drache]

sorry about the worm, Robert
but what a relief she'll be fine

[Sid]

Sorry to hear about the problem, Robert. Thanks for communicating the results to all of us and hope all goes well.

Sid

[Thamnophis]

What I am curious of is how they determined the worm infection and what kind of worminfection is it?
Is it a worminfection in the bowls or under the skin?
What is the treatment?
Why does the snake has to stay for a month at the vet´s clinic?
What is going to be done with 50 syringes?

I know... questions, questions, questions.

[Lulu Bennett]

also to add to thams questions, you said not all the babies are yours. why???:confused:

[DEKAN]

What I am curious of is how they determined the worm infection and what kind of worminfection is it?
Is it a worminfection in the bowls or under the skin?
What is the treatment?
Why does the snake has to stay for a month at the vet´s clinic?
What is going to be done with 50 syringes?

I know... questions, questions, questions.

So I was asked about the diet of the snake, and appears to be very common in those kinds of fish to have parasites
(But then...how all the pet stores sell this kind of fish for food? That's so dishonest :mad: ), so he told me that he have seen something like that and the snake had the same diet.

The treatment, was surgery to extract the worm, the ones that grow under the skin like you said (dracunculus medinensis) BUT, he only saw her, nothing more, so he could be wrong...and some antibiotics (he didn't say wich ones, tomorrow I'll ask him) by the way, not the nicest person I've ever met http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7101/shakeheadzh1.gif .Imagine that professor that thinks he knows everything, and tries to make you feel bad or make a fool out of you. I was so angry, I'm paying, They're not making me any favor. And I'm not in there for someone to tell me how I need to grab my snake (like a small child) and tell me things I already knew, just because I didn't study Biology. At that moment I was saying in my head "And that's why other cultures don't like mexicans...For just a few, we get labeled".

And the reason about the time she's gonna stay there is because, he said that reptiles take too much time to heal, I don't know if it's true, I've never had a sick snake =(

The 50 syringes..Ohhh, that's because it was a service to the University like "charity", I did pay for everything (And it wasn't cheap) , but suddenly it was a sort of requirement not charity or something...Can u believe that!!!

But unfortunately there are not many reptile vets. So whatever at this moment is good. =(

I say it again...only in Mexico!


also to add to thams questions, you said not all the babies are yours. why???

Oh...I'm really sad about it, and that's me...really--> http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/5126/908572171yb2.gif

I don't think he's gonna give all the babies, I'm pretty sure he's going to steal a few for the University, I don't trust him, I'm also thinking, about picking her up in a week or two, but I'm also afaid that she still needs some treatment.



Thank you all for your support :o

[drache]

wow
I guess you're really at their mercy for treatment, so they can make the rules
I'd be fuming - and even worse because of the need to be diplomatic
what can you do
at least she does get treatment
thanks for taking care of your snake despite these difficulties and expense

someone posted a couple of months ago about a gravid snake with a worm
there were autopsy photos because for that snake it was too late
will try to find the thread

[DEKAN]

Wel I just Exploded today....http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/492/rant2qi1.gif

I took my snake and my money back, the guy has no education...I'll take her to a better place with people who do have education and care for animals.

So I arrived and nobody answered the door so I came in, the guy didn't say anything so I asked him...What was it?...the response was "Oh, I'm going to open her" , as you can imagine, the snake was lef 24 hrs, and then he started to check some papers while me and my sister where standing there like trees for half an hour, so...I found another teacher (very kind woman) and told him that we where really upset. So the guy kang out the phone and he asked: "Bad treat from whom?"...I just said FROM YOU!!! wive me my snake, the syringes and my money cause you didn't do anything to her...she could die and you just leave her.

So in less than a minute I had the snake and all my money...I'm gonna talk to the chief of the area, tomorrow...this can't stay like this, people like him sould not be assigned to the public.

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, I know that type. :mad: They don't give a crap about the client (or patient) and they can be really condescending. Sometimes you just have to "explode".

[adamanteus]

Good for you, Robert. You kind let these self opinionated types push you around.

[Thamnophis]

What a story. Thanks for sharing.

Try to get some faeces from the snake and take this to a "normal" vet. Eventhough this one might have no reptile experience, mostly they can determine worm(-eggs) in the faeces.

But if the snake only has a bump and does not look ill and acts normal you might consider to just leave her alone.
She can give birth to her young in peace than.
All this vet-trouble gives her a lot of stress, I guess.

[joeysgreen]

Can you shed more light as to what kind of worm and where it was? Was it subcutaneous, intracardiac, in the lung, in the coleom? Did they tell you the genus, species or even just the family of worm?

Thanks, and I'm happy you were able to find someone to attend to your snake :)

Ian

[DEKAN]

Well...today it's the minor surgery, with only local anesthethic cause she's gravid, I have to call the vet at noon, to see what was it for sure.

As I was talking to him, he said that could be other reasons for the little bumps on her side, but in this case (cause of her diet) could be a parasite worm as the other vet already told me.

Also he said me that he don't recommend a diet on frozen fish :confused: , cause the skin of the snake could break on some vitamins definciency. And I was like "...no way" but then his asssistant brought some pictures, Ewwwww... So he says that the best way to keep a healthy snake is to feed her with pinkies and sometimes the frozen fish, but an only pinkie diet is the best. So, just keep in mind this comment ;)

On saturday I'll pick up my snake and then I'll have more information, I hope he keeps the worm or whatever he found, I have my camera ready :D

And...I'm going to register my snake into my gouverments laws, It's a little wierd the terms on the "contract" but I can asure that the babies are gonna be legally mine...

[Kurly1]

Wow, you and your poor liitle snake have been through so much :( . I am glad that you have a good vet taking care of her now and hope everything goes well. I am happy that we have started our snakes on pinkies now. I still have a few frozen minnows in my freezer that we were thinking about giving him every now and then but after hearing about the problems your snake has from eating fish I am wondering if I should just throw them away!

Please continue to let us know how she is doing.

[Snaky]

I don't think the problems comes from giving frozen fish. A lot of garters have been raised on it ( sometimes even solely on it ) and if the fish you give are raised healthy, it should not give any problems.

Although I also try to give some variety with pinkies, fish, worms, chicken, ...

[Thamnophis]

I also do not agree with the vet about the frozen fish.
I have given this for many years and never had a problem.
But I give always some vitamin/mineral/calciumpowder on the food.

If a good fish is frozen in the right way (fast and very cold) than it is as healthy as a live one.
Parasites sometimes die when the fish is frozen, but not always.

[DEKAN]

Well...it was just a comment, if frozen fish has worked for you, use it, The problem in Mexico is that not many of these fish are kept in good conditions, the're too cheap.

My snake is good, the surgery was excellent, you won't even notice the stitches :D.

And I took a picture of the worm, my vet wasn't there so his assistance didn't knew about the kind of worm, but he's going to send me all the information on a e-mail.

Here is the picture.
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1470/wormdy8.jpg

[adamanteus]

Yuk!! Good that you got a photo of "the beast"! Hope the snake recovers quickly.

[Stefan-A]

Mmmm.. roundworm.



Right?

[adamanteus]

Looks it, Stefan, but I wouldn't want to be the one to speculate.....What do I know about Mexican parasitic worms?

[enigma200316]

I would bet you know a little more about mexican worms than you let on.......:D well thats if you have that stuff over there anyway..(hint,hint)

[adamanteus]

Justin, If I had anything Mexican in my collection I would just have to brag about it!:rolleyes: I'm afraid that (so far) all my Garters are North American.

[Elliot]

Well Mexico is technally part of North America.:rolleyes: :D lol

[enigma200316]

well that one went over the head,under the feet, and right out the front door.....:) :rolleyes: ....I was talking about TEQUILA with Worm in it!!!!!!

[adamanteus]

well that one went over the head,under the feet, and right out the front door.....:) :rolleyes: ....I was talking about TEQUILA with Worm in it!!!!!!

Of course! Please excuse me, I forgot to mention that I'm totally stupid!!:o

[enigma200316]

thats totally ko derf...(thats ok fred, just a stupid joke)......:)
anyway we all have are moments..........:D

[DEKAN]

So he said that is a kind of worm that grows under the skin it's an Macdonaldius spp. and that could be more in her...but she could be dewormed.

Any ideas what could I get to feed my snake, I'm little afraid that the stitches get loose if I offer her a big piece of meat or something. :confused:

Thanx for your help

[adamanteus]

Yeah, I agree, small food items would be best for now. Can you get trout for human consumption from the supermarket, and cut it up small? Or try scenting pinkies with fish?

[DEKAN]

Ok...nice idea, I'll try the trout, if don't then I'll try the pinkies...all my family is against that but...it's my snake :D

[joeysgreen]

Nutritional defiencies from frozen fish might be from feeding frozen fish parts, as opposed to the entire fish, like a minnow. This would explain how some people have done well on this diet, while apparently others have had disasterous consequences. Even so, for the poster deciding if to through out the frozen minnows, don't worry about it. Defiencies are not obtain from a few meals. They are a result of a lack in the overall diet. Therefore even if you decide to no longer use frozen fish to avoid this problem, a few meals spread out will not contribute to a problem.

That is a cool worm, I've only read about them. For other's interested, it is a nematode, but not the typical roundworm found in the gut. These adults live in the vascular system near the heart. Offspring are in the form of microfiliaria, or microscopic worms that swim around the blood. They must be transmitted via mosquito or tick (mites too?) prior to becoming sexually mature. Now what I find interesting is that this was found externally. Was this a migrant that left the large vessels? Was a blood sample taken to look for microfilaria? Chemotherapuetics havn't proven very beneficial, however if vectors of infection are eliminated then the snake cannot get any more worms; the remaining problem being any adults it already still has.

I love this stuff.. so glad your snake has done well :)

Ian

[Josh]

Now when you say trout do you mean like normal trout?

[Elliot]

Like the rainbows and brookies and browns you can catch up there will work.

[adamanteus]

Now when you say trout do you mean like normal trout?

That's what I use...normal supermarket Rainbow Trout for human consumption. Probably best to avoid the one with spinach and ricotta stuffing though!!:rolleyes:

[DEKAN]

Well...bad news :(

The trout didn't work, I put a small nightcrawler and nothing, she looks thin...today I'm going to buy a pinkie and scent it with fish...The new terrarium, has changed and this may be the cause of stress for her, it has only newspaper, cause the vet said that the contact with the peat moss could infect the wounds :(

[Snaky]

Bad to hear. I hope it works...

It's true though what the vet said, the best way to keep everything clean is to use newspaper.

[adamanteus]

Robert, it may well be the stress of all the vet visits, surgery etc that has upset her and put her off feeding for a while. Give her a little time to regain her composure, and hopefully she'll start eating again. I agree, it is very important to keep her enclosure completely clean at this time.

[KITKAT]

Bad to hear. I hope it works...

It's true though what the vet said, the best way to keep everything clean is to use newspaper.

On sick or injured snakes, I use paper towels because I fear the effects of the newspaper ink.

And on top of the paper towels, you can scatter torn strips of paper towel. This gives more of a feeling of "substrate".

[joeysgreen]

I too use paper towel, more because it's a bit more textured than newprint. Nice idea with the torn strips!

Ian

[Snaky]

I learn every day.. It might indeed be better to use paper towels, although I've not had any problems with newspapers. But I haven't had any snake's with injuries, I've used it for quarantine untill now. A very good idea with the torn strips.

[KITKAT]

A few weeks ago, when the Nerodia came in with the lawnmower injury, we put her on torn strips of paper towel.

I was shredding paper towels for this purpose, and my husband came in and asked, "Amish paper shredder?"

LOL!:D :p

[enigma200316]

hahaha!!!.....thats funny......how is she doing????

[DEKAN]

Well...she hasn't eat yet :(, so today I went to buy a pinkie...but the pet store didn't have any...until tomorrow :mad:

So...I wish I have luck tomorrow.

I really don't want to force feed her...but if it's necesary, I'll do it :confused:


here is a picture. I couldn't get a clear shot of the stitches and I didn't want to upset her so I just leave her alone :P

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5065/postnc9.jpg

[enigma200316]

from the pic she looks like she doing ok.......so chin up.....:)
how long has it been since she last ate????

[KITKAT]

She looks very good... not thin or dehydrated.

I would not force feed her yet... surgery slows down the peristalsis (movement of the gut) that she needs to digest her food, and depending on how long ago she had the surgery, she may not be up for eating yet.

I'd be patient...:rolleyes:

[enigma200316]

I'd agree with KitKat.....hang in there she will eat......:D

[adamanteus]

I also agree. She appears to have sufficient bulk on her to survive for a good while without feeding. I think the stress caused by force-feeding at this stage would be a step backward. please be patient, Robert.

[Snaky]

Good to see that she looks that well. I also agree with the rest and keep us updated ;)

[New Mutant]

How is she?

[Stefan-A]

How is she?
You do realise that you're bumping a 3-year-old thread and talking to people who haven't been active users for a very long time?

[New Mutant]

No, I didn't. Sorry.

[Stefan-A]

No need to apologize, just don't expect any replies from the ones involved. :D

[KITKAT]

Well, I'll reply... LOL

But seriously, one of the frustrating things that happens in this forum, is when someone posts about a sick snake and then we never hear the outcome!:(

[infernalis]

Well, I'll reply... LOL

But seriously, one of the frustrating things that happens in this forum, is when someone posts about a sick snake and then we never hear the outcome!:(

That seems to hold true all over the net... Either the animal gets better or dies and then the original poster loses all interest in following through.

[Stefan-A]

But seriously, one of the frustrating things that happens in this forum, is when someone posts about a sick snake and then we never hear the outcome!:(
You know what I'd like? Whenever someone's snake escapes, I'd like to know how it escaped and what was done to prevent it from happening again. Preferably with pictures.

[guidofatherof5]

You know what I'd like? Whenever someone's snake escapes, I'd like to know how it escaped and what was done to prevent it from happening again. Preferably with pictures.


Stefan,
Why don't you start a thread on the subject. Sounds like it would be a great resource to everyone.

[Stefan-A]

Stefan,
Why don't you start a thread on the subject. Sounds like it would be a great resource to everyone.
Because I don't expect any contributions to it.

[guidofatherof5]

Because I don't expect any contributions to it.

I would contribute and I have a feeling others would too.
If you don't want to start the thread, I will. Being your good idea, I felt you should get it going.
Credit where credit is due kind of thing.;)

[Stefan-A]

Feel free to do so.

[mustang]

You know what I'd like? Whenever someone's snake escapes, I'd like to know how it escaped and what was done to prevent it from happening again. Preferably with pictures.
ill get pics and iv started a thread but long story short he climbed up the waterfall cord and went out the little corner slit in the lid so i pu insulation arount the inside of the lid :D

[Stefan-A]

ill get pics and iv started a thread but long story short he climbed up the waterfall cord and went out the little corner slit in the lid so i pu insulation arount the inside of the lid :D
Steve started a thread weeks ago.

[guidofatherof5]

Steve started a thread weeks ago.

Here's a link to it, Robert.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/7782-escape-trials-tribulations.html