Egg binding

[MiddletonMouse]

I have a 2011 marcianus who has been in fine health for me up until now. I found two dried up "slugs" in her viv this morning and, thinking she had finished "laying them' took her out to check her over.

There's a distinct lump near her vent and I'm wondering what to do next. I've phoned my emergency vets but there are no reptile folk on call today as its the weekend.

If she doesn't pass the other slug I do have an appointment with an excellent vet on Tuesday that I could use as the animal I was going to take could wait. I'm just wondering if this is an emergency situation in which case I could take her to another vet tomorrow but I know she's only really just started out with exotics.

Is there anything I could do for Cayelyn today? I have avipro and water soluble calcium and multivitamins. I also have baytril on standby for my pet rats. She seems ok in herself and ate 2 pinkies and some smelt on Friday night. I assume the slugs appeared yesterday.

She's not been with a male and I have no male marcianus in the house. I have an infernalis male but I've never put them together.

[Tommytradix]

i just had a litter where my girl started dropping slugs for 2 days then a still then 2 live all in all took 3 days so i wouldnt worry just yet just let her be and if by tuesday the situation hasnt improved then i would reccomend going to the vet

[d_virginiana]

It can take a while to pass slugs, sometimes days like Tommy said. If things are really going south, she will seem to be in obvious distress and likely start rolling in an attempt to pass the remaining slugs (I had this situation a couple years ago that was complicated by other health issues).

I wouldn't feed again until this is over though. If you do need vet intervention, food in the system can complicate that. Just make sure she stays hydrated, and offer water if she doesn't seem to be going for it on her own; I have some snakes that don't mind at all when I offer them water and will start drinking while in my hands, and some that freak out if I do it, so only do it if she's calm about it.

[Albert Clark]

The other issue with slugs or unborn "in sac" babies is that the mother really should not be disturbed. Her lay box should be adequate with moss and substrate conducive to promote the passage of any live scrubs. A 24 to 48 hour period of extreme quietness and complete lack of disturbances is required. Even if there are retained products of conception this is needed. Inability to pass material can be problematic. There is a warm soak and massage therapy to help stimulate the passage. Only if the product, slug , binding in sac baby is close to the vent. Also its a very gentle massage to avoid any rupture or prolapse of the cloaca. Usually the female will pass the products as long as she is allowed to remain undisturbed for a period of time. :) A herp vet will have oxytocin that can induce a more steady contraction to aid in the passage.

[d_virginiana]

There is a warm soak and massage therapy to help stimulate the passage. Only if the product, slug , binding in sac baby is close to the vent. Also its a very gentle massage to avoid any rupture or prolapse of the cloaca.

I'd want to add that massaging slugs/anything else out should probably be a last resort, and preferably something a vet or breeder who knows what they're doing has shown you how to do. It has it's place for sure, but I'd want to drive the point home that that can do serious damage if someone does it improperly.

[Albert Clark]

Absolutely Lora! actually all the references point to having the vet do it. Thank you for pointing that out.

[d_virginiana]

Absolutely Lora! actually all the references point to having the vet do it. Thank you for pointing that out.

I figured that's what you meant, just wanted to make that extra clear since it's so easy to read something on the internet and miss/misinterpret something :)

[MiddletonMouse]

Unfortunately she didn't pass the slugs by the time our appointment came round so I took her in to see the vet yesterday. She had an ultrasound which revealed two stuck slugs so was given an injection of fluids into the area wlong with an injection to stimulate contractions. I was told to bring her back today if she hadn't passed them and sadly she has failed to do so. Given it was Friday night possibly Thursday that she laid the first lot and we're now fully 5 days forward I'm starting to get really worried about her. I hadn't provided a lay box until Saturday as I had no reason to think she was carrying slugs. Her behaviour was (and still is) the same as its always been and she fed well on Friday night.

Hopefully my vet can sort her out.

[guidofatherof5]

Unfortunately she didn't pass the slugs by the time our appointment came round so I took her in to see the vet yesterday. She had an ultrasound which revealed two stuck slugs so was given an injection of fluids into the area wlong with an injection to stimulate contractions. I was told to bring her back today if she hadn't passed them and sadly she has failed to do so. Given it was Friday night possibly Thursday that she laid the first lot and we're now fully 5 days forward I'm starting to get really worried about her. I hadn't provided a lay box until Saturday as I had no reason to think she was carrying slugs. Her behaviour was (and still is) the same as its always been and she fed well on Friday night.

Hopefully my vet can sort her out.

Please keep us posted on this situation.

[Albert Clark]

Cool, at least there is progress however slight. Did the vet mention about the warm soaking and massage as a possible therapy he could perform since the slugs haven't passed? Or does he want to try the oxytocin at a higher dose? I got you as far as the lay box is concerned. I totally understand.

[MiddletonMouse]

Well I took her back to the vet today, he wants to try another lot of injections and if there's no progress overnight he wants to operate and remove the slugs. He's done the same op a few times before and is optimistic that he can help. At this point she is still behaving normally and active and the slugs are very near her vent. He is hoping to try a warm bath and gentle massage later on today once she's had her injections.

[Albert Clark]

Wow, cool. We are all pulling for her and you. Hoping all goes well. Sounds like the vet is super good!

[MiddletonMouse]

Wow, cool. We are all pulling for her and you. Hoping all goes well. Sounds like the vet is super good!

Thankfully my parents had the good sense to research a good reptile vet before allowing me to buy my first garters in 1997. I've since lost them but Caelyn was the first of my current four garters that I've bought/adopted in recent years. We went into an exotics shop a few miles away and I had been pestering the owner about garters as I'd never seen any in. When we arrived this day they had an empty viv marked "checkered garter snakes" but they had all been sold. We asked the shop assistant to check the viv but there were none in there, just then the owner appeared with a load of cricket tubs with baby snakes in, saw me and said "You! You like garter snakes don't you?"

This was her when I brought her home
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o263/CrunchieMac/caelyn001_zpsmwtomiia.jpg

This was her a few months ago
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o263/CrunchieMac/caelyn069_zpsox2aqc1f.jpg

I really hope i get her back OK, I'd be completed gutted if anything happened to her. :(

[d_virginiana]

Well I took her back to the vet today, he wants to try another lot of injections and if there's no progress overnight he wants to operate and remove the slugs. He's done the same op a few times before and is optimistic that he can help. At this point she is still behaving normally and active and the slugs are very near her vent. He is hoping to try a warm bath and gentle massage later on today once she's had her injections.

This is the route my vet went when I had a similar problem. The snake came through the surgery well, but ended up passing about a year and a half later due to health complications unrelated to the surgery. If you've got the money, it has a pretty decent chance of success.

[MiddletonMouse]

Just to keep everyone updated...

Cayelyn didn't manage to pass the remaining slugs so had the op to remove them today.

She did really well and was just starting to move around again when I hung up. She's on pain killer and antibiotics and I've to ring back tomorrow morning to see how she is.

Thanks for all your advice and support. Hopefully our little girl will be back to her old self soon.

[d_virginiana]

That's good to hear. Hopefully she makes a full recovery for you :)

[Albert Clark]

That's a beautiful checkered too! And she looks so healthy. Please keep us updated. Best of luck.

[MiddletonMouse]

Oh well Cayelyn came home yesterday after I'd asked if she could stay at the vet over the weekend as we were meant to be going away up north and my mum is looking after the snwkes for us. Unfortunately madam had other ideas and was apparently striking at everyone that went near her so the vet wanted her home ASAP. Here's what her wound looks like...

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o263/CrunchieMac/DSC_0373_zpskuyxgdfp.jpg

She is home on pain killer and antibiotic and has a post op check next week. She's very lively and wasn't at all aggresive when I got her home so hopefully she'll settle now that she's back in her own viv. I've taken everything out that she might snag the stitches on and she's just on paper towling for now. I'll get you guys a photo of the slugs as I got to take them home as a souvenir.

[MiddletonMouse]

They are much larger than the other ones she passed.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o263/CrunchieMac/DSC_0370_zpsexnj1mmn.jpg

[Albert Clark]

Wow, those slugs are huge! I am so glad that she pulled through all of this . You know what? That is one strong checkered garter female. She looks great! Congrats to you and welcome home to her.

[guidofatherof5]

Glad things are looking better. Did the Vet. say anything about her being able to breed in the future?

[d_virginiana]

Glad things are looking better. Did the Vet. say anything about her being able to breed in the future?

When mine had the procedure done the vet said she should be able to breed no problem and that it would actually be healthier for her to, in order to avoid another litter of slugs.

Of course, that snake died about a month and a half after being mated the following year with the vet's express approval, so...
(To be fair, she had dealt with some other health problems in the past that I believe caused lasting damage, so that may have had something to do with it).

[MiddletonMouse]

I didn't even think to ask about breeding her but I can ask my vet when she has her post-op check next week. She's still doing well and being very good about taking her meds too. She also ate a pinkie mouse on Saturday night while my partner and I were away for the weekend and my mum was looking after the snakes for me.

[Albert Clark]

I really think she is going to go on from here and be just fine. That is one strong checkered garter!