mouth rot

[rickymar81]

I mite be taking in a checkered with mouth rot. How do I treat it

[Albert Clark]

Chlorhexidine and or/ betadine solutions. Actually I think the chlorhexidine is more specific and they both should be diluted with water. You can get a 10ml syringe to draw up the solution and irrigate the mouth. Be careful and hold the animal in a head down position to facilitate drainage of the fluid and to minimize aspiration and swallowing. Chlorhexidine is also known as Novalsan. Good luck. Also, depending on the severity of the mouth rot you should consider a vet for this bc it may require other treatments,

[rickymar81]

Ok thank you very much

[d_virginiana]

For long-term treatment (because if you quit treating when it looks like it's gone, it WILL come back) you can use Hibiclens. You can buy it at most pharmacies. It's milder than other treatments, so it's better suited for long-term treatment IMO. It's good to start with the treatment Albert recommended and then pick up the Hibiclens after the major symptoms have been treated.

Additionally, I'm sure you already know about this, but you need to use separate equipment for this snake. If it's truly mouth rot and not just a mouth infection it is highly contagious.

[rickymar81]

For long-term treatment (because if you quit treating when it looks like it's gone, it WILL come back) you can use Hibiclens. You can buy it at most pharmacies. It's milder than other treatments, so it's better suited for long-term treatment IMO. It's good to start with the treatment Albert recommended and then pick up the Hibiclens after the major symptoms have been treated.

Additionally, I'm sure you already know about this, but you need to use separate equipment for this snake. If it's truly mouth rot and not just a mouth infection it is highly contagious.
That great to know, I did not know that mouth rot is contagious. Thank you

[joeysgreen]

Mouth rot is just a generic term for stomatitis. ie, an infection in the mouth. It rarely is contagious in nature, but with any new pet, strict quarantine for 3 months is recommended. See other threads for descriptions of quarantine.
The first, best treatment is the proper husbandry I presume you are going to be offering this snake when it arrives.
The treatments recommended are just topicals. They will reduce the surface microflora in the mouth, but that is it. They are irritating to the tissues, so can definitely be overused. Chlorhexadine comes in many forms, but Nolvosan is one. When combined with proper husbandry this is often all that is necessary. However, many (I"ll vouch for all) cases are better off with veterinary care. Worst comes to worse and it's a very mild case, and your vet tells you to do the same thing as suggested by previous posters. You havn't wasted your money, because now you have had a professional look over your whole snake, you can be happy you are on the right track and there isn't anything else going on. This is a good idea with any new pet. With many cases, treatment will include debridement, flushing, and systemic medications to treat the infection and manage pain and discomfort. The sooner such treatment happens, the better.

I hope this helps,

Ian

[d_virginiana]

If I'm not mistaken there are two different conditions that are both often referred to as 'mouth rot'. One is the generic sort of mouth infection that generally isn't contagious. The other causes a cottage-cheese like discharge from the mouth and is more contagious.
I may be wrong but I think I remember conversations on here about the type of infection with the discharge being different from run-of-the-mill mouth infections...

[BUSHSNAKE]

i had a bad bad mouth rot outbreak in my collection couple years back. I dont think mouth rot is just one thing, i think it could be secondary to anther problem...i really dont know but what ever i had spread through the collection and i think it started with one animal. i lost alot of garters...eastern blacknecks, santa cruz garters and cuitzeoensis...it was devestating and have no clue where it came from, ive never
seen anything like that ever in my life. Still kills me to think about it.

[joeysgreen]

Mouth rot is generic for any mouth infection. The "cottage cheese" is pus. Reptiles have heterophils instead of neutrophils (types of white blood cells). These cells lack peroxidase, the enzyme that breaks down pus and turns it into that liquid that we may be familiar from dogs, cats, horses, humans etc. The presence of puss in the mouth is more a measure of severity, and not the causative pathogen.

Mouth rot is also generally only a symptom of illness; but can be localized due to trauma, parasitism, dental disease etc. I'd say 99% of mouth rot cases are husbandry related... either poor overall, or the heater breaks unknowingly, improper brumation techniques, etc. The account provided by Bushsnake (I'm sorry for your losses :( ) is certainly indicative of an infectious pathogen, especially in a household where husbandry is well controlled. There are no documented pathogens that cause exclusively mouth rot, however many that can present as such; paramyxovirus perhaps? Nonetheless, to have this diagnosed requires sampling and laboratory diagnostics like culture, cytology, PCR or histopathology.

[d_virginiana]

Huh, I didn't know about reptiles being unable to form liquid pus.

In my experience injury is another common cause for infections in babies that get over-zealous when it comes to food time. I've had two babies that ended up with severe but not life-threatening mouth infections due to feeding injuries over the years. One bit my hand and injured herself trying to take a piece of my finger with her, and the other bit the silicone on the side of his tank and got stuck for a bit. I think they both injured or ripped out teeth, and ended up with mouth infections because of it.

Regardless of the cause, IMO it's smart to quarantine and use separate equipment for snakes with stomatitis since you don't know whether it could be infectious or not.

[Albert Clark]

Another point to note is infectious stomatitis is acquired from a poor, deficient diet. One lacking in vitamin c and inappropriate calcium and phosphorous levels. The stress suppresses the immune system and makes them more susceptible to infections. :)

[joeysgreen]

... right idea Albert but a little jumbled. "Infectious stomatitis" would specifically refer to a contagious infection. This would be due to a virus for example.
As alluded to earlier, generic "stomatitis" is often husbandry related, and that can definitely be nutritional. While vitamin C can be important, perhaps more significant to this type of infection and more commonly seen in reptiles, is a vitamin A deficiency. Vitamin A deficiency causes hyperkeratinisation of mucosal epithelial cells, irritation and local inflammation which can open the door for infection.
Main message though, is to ensure a nutritious and appropriately varied diet.

Ian

[Spacehawk]

Thats interesting I have not thought about deficincies contributing to a compromisedmimmune system butnit makes sense bc that happens to humans- does a rodent diet provide proper amounts of vitamins A and C for garters to have optimal immune response?

[d_virginiana]

Thats interesting I have not thought about deficincies contributing to a compromisedmimmune system butnit makes sense bc that happens to humans- does a rodent diet provide proper amounts of vitamins A and C for garters to have optimal immune response?

This thread is kind of dead, so you may want to start a new one if you have any specific questions. A rodent diet should be sufficient, but I think it's good to mix nightcrawlers in. Many people also feed fish on occasion, but there are quite a few issues with potential contamination as well as thiaminase, so that's something you should really do research on before trying (just search this site for 'thiaminase').

[joeysgreen]

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but if you are feeding healthy mice that are either live, freshly killed, or frozen for a short period of time then there should be no problem with nutrient deficiency.

[Albert Clark]

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but if you are feeding healthy mice that are either live, freshly killed, or frozen for a short period of time then there should be no problem with nutrient deficiency.
True, bc a rodent based diet is considered complete nutrition. However it is a good idea to stay with a varied diet to supplement the complete nutrition. In the wild , varied diet is the rule. You cant go wrong with that concept.

[d_virginiana]

I look at the varied diet as a way to keep their metabolism where it should be more than a nutritional thing. In the wild they're eating primarily things that digest much more quickly than rodents; amphibians, fish, worms.

[Spacehawk]

Yes I have had my garters on rodents for quite a while cue to the concern of thiaminase

[guidofatherof5]

There is no one perfect food. Each food has something good to offer and by varying the diet our snakes get a balance of the goodness.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Yes I have had my garters on rodents for quite a while cue to the concern of thiaminase

Guppies and mosquitofish are fairly common thiamanase free fish. Try to find a local higher end aquarium store, there's at least a better chance of finding feeders in good conditions. Obviously ask to see the conditions they are stored in. Lucky for me there is a place that sells minnowfish in downtown Austin that is obsessed with cleanliness of their water (they actually buy fancy neutral ph aquarium water for all their tanks and don't even use city water at all) as well as feeding them good food.

[guidofatherof5]

Guppies and mosquitofish are fairly common thiamanase free fish. Try to find a local higher end aquarium store, there's at least a better chance of finding feeders in good conditions. Obviously ask to see the conditions they are stored in. Lucky for me there is a place that sells minnowfish in downtown Austin that is obsessed with cleanliness of their water (they actually buy fancy neutral ph aquarium water for all their tanks and don't even use city water at all) as well as feeding them good food.

Do you know which species?

[Rushthezeppelin]

Do you know which species?

Meant to say mosquitofish my bad.

[guidofatherof5]

Gambusia, good feeder.