breeding garters

[deadhead]

hey guys really wanting to expand my collection as I have breeding corns for quite some time now and am wondering what garter would be best! I really was interested in checkers but haven't found any morphs other than granite and albino so was leaning toward the plains garter or eastern garter any recommendations? Also what would be the outcome of a melanistic albino eastern?
Thanks in advance!

[Zdravko092368]

Easterns and Plains are your best bet, they have the most morphs available, are the easiest to obtain(besides checkereds) and are generally easy to care for. A melanistic x albino makes an amelanistic melanistic, but they are called Snows since the guy who ran the garter breeding show back when these first came around called them that.

But they don't look like snows and are not created by an Anery x Albino like a typical snow in other species, they are basically a brown looking melanistic, solid brown no pattern.

[deadhead]

Thanks for the info it helped a lot! And now is there no anery eastern? And if that would be considered a snow then what would an anery x albino be? And also what is the difference between the strains of albinos in plains like the Christmas. Iowa, etc are they compatible? Sorry for all the questions and thanks again!

[Zdravko092368]

I really don't know much about Radix, radix masters are Guidofatherof5 and Tommy T. Radix. I'm sure they'll post eventually.

[Tommytradix]

this is what the snow easterns look like lol11772

[Tommytradix]

plains are a great garter to start with they are very easy to breed and care for all strains of radix are compatible and the 'christmas' is just an iowa albino bred to a red plains then the offspring were then bred back creating red albinos

[Tommytradix]

1177311774​11775

[Tommytradix]

thats my femal high red albino plains and heres my male red plains1177611777

[ObsidianDragon]

Just throwing out there that there IS a third morph of checkereds: pastel! I think someone was working on crossing pastels with granites, but I never found out what happened with that.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Thanks for the info it helped a lot! And now is there no anery eastern? And if that would be considered a snow then what would an anery x albino be? And also what is the difference between the strains of albinos in plains like the Christmas. Iowa, etc are they compatible? Sorry for all the questions and thanks again!

no there is no anery eastern. Easterns are not normally red so an eastern in their natural form is anerythristic but we dont call normals anerythristic

[Tommytradix]

no there is no anery eastern. Easterns are not normally red so an eastern in their natural form is anerythristic but we dont call normals anerythristic
how do you explain flames and erythristics then? in canada flames are all over even here in new jersey i have caught flames. erythrism is very common in easterns

[BUSHSNAKE]

flames and erythristics are morphs...a flame or an erythristic eastern without the red is just a normal eastern, if all easterns looked like those then maybe there would be anerythristics...have you ever seen an anery eastern?...i haven't, can you even picture one in your head? albinos dont have red, you have to add it

[Tommytradix]

1179711798i can picture them lol

[Tommytradix]

they were found in 2008

[Albert Clark]

;);)
Just throwing out there that there IS a third morph of checkereds: pastel! I think someone was working on crossing pastels with granites, but I never found out what happened with that.

That person was Jeff Benfer , aka "the garter snake morph". What became of that was pastel het granite checkered. I understand both he and Scott have since stopped working with the granite checkered morph altogether. Sad because the granite, imo, is a beautiful morph. Peace.

[Jeff B]

;);)

That person was Jeff Benfer , aka "the garter snake morph". What became of that was pastel het granite checkered. I understand both he and Scott have since stopped working with the granite checkered morph altogether. Sad because the granite, imo, is a beautiful morph. Peace.

The granite checkered is one of my favorites. I had to slim down my collection, do to time constraints, but I plan to get some again someday to work with. The pastel is a suttle morph.

[Jeff B]

plains are a great garter to start with they are very easy to breed and care for all strains of radix are compatible and the 'christmas' is just an iowa albino bred to a red plains then the offspring were then bred back creating red albinos

Tommy, your statement "all stains of radix are compatible" is not technically correct. The "Iowa strain" albino is a T- and the "Nebraska strain" albino is a T+, just as with most snake species (and other animals too) in which these two types of albinism are present in a species they are NOT compatible. If you breed a pure "Nebraska strain" to a pure "Iowa strain" you will get all normals. This has been proven many times. Confusion can arise now a days because so many times these two types have been bred to each other or hets and possible hets arrise, so there are a lot of radix circulating that are visual for one type but hidden or unbeknown to the owner; het for the other gene.

[Jeff B]

There have been many easterns found that have been labeled "anerythristic", however none have proven to be a simple recessive anerythristic....yet. In my opinion most of them have been more of a hypermelanistic polygenetic variant, similar to how the flame or erythristic works, they are also not simple recessives (one gene-creating a phenotype that is either on or off, with no inbetweeners). Erythristics and flames and most easterns called "anerythristic" pass various amounts of their respective color influence to their offspring, without the predictable heritability of a simple recessive gene, like the albino and melanistic genes.

[Tommytradix]

Tommy, your statement "all stains of radix are compatible" is not technically correct. The "Iowa strain" albino is a T- and the "Nebraska strain" albino is a T+, just as with most snake species (and other animals too) in which these two types of albinism are present in a species they are NOT compatible. If you breed a pure "Nebraska strain" to a pure "Iowa strain" you will get all normals. This has been proven many times. Confusion can arise now a days because so many times these two types have been bred to each other or hets and possible hets arrise, so there are a lot of radix circulating that are visual for one type but hidden or unbeknown to the owner; het for the other gene.didnt you produce one of each albino from one parent and the rest slugs? i havnt tried to breed the 2 strains but am pretty sure i seen it on your page awhile back. you really do need to update it lol theres alot that has changed in the past couple years lol

[Jeff B]

The way that litter produced one of each type of albino was both parents were at least het for both of the different and NOT compatible albino types. The example you sited the dad was Iowa snow het Nebraska, and mom was Nebraska het Iowa.
11811

The problem and part of the confusion is because very early on these two albino types were bred to each other to test for compatability, which they were NOT. This produced double hets. Then after many years of breeding visuals of one albino type and het for the other type, there are a lot of visuals (homozygotes) for one type but carriers of one copy of the other gene.

Once you get lower then 50% possible het most people do not even bother to report the possibility, yet some animals may be in fact het for the gene.

[Tommytradix]

Oh ok thanks for clearing that up for me. So then what were the quad hets on felzers page? Sorry for all the questions

[Jeff B]

Oh ok thanks for clearing that up for me. So then what were the quad hets on felzers page? Sorry for all the questions

What Scott refers to as quad hets--he means they are "het" for Nebraska albino, Iowa albino, Iowa snow, and Nebraska snow. Saying they are quad hets, referring to the 4 phenotypes possible in their offspring, is a bit of a misnomer, but to each there own, and quite frankly more people understand this than my technically correct version below.

Personally I would call them triple hets--because their genotype is heterozygous for: 1.Nebraska albino (T+ gene), 2.Iowa albino (T- gene), and 3.anerythristic gene. Heterozygous for 3 genes.
While this is the technically and scientifically correct nomenclature to describe the genotype, I end up explaining this to more people and then in the end when someone asks, "so can they make two different kinds of snow" and I tell them "yes they can" and they say "so they are het for snow" I basically give in and reluctantly say " yes aka het snow".
My point being scientifically correct doesn't have any value if it has no meaning to the audience. So generally, when I sell a multi-het snake I usually post the correct genotype and also add aka " het snow" or whatever, so that if you my audience prefers correct genotype they get that, and if they relate to phenotype possibilities in offspring they have that information as well.

[Tommytradix]

What Scott refers to as quad hets--he means they are "het" for Nebraska albino, Iowa albino, Iowa snow, and Nebraska snow. Saying they are quad hets, referring to the 4 phenotypes possible in their offspring, is a bit of a misnomer, but to each there own, and quite frankly more people understand this than my technically correct version below.

Personally I would call them triple hets--because their genotype is heterozygous for: 1.Nebraska albino (T+ gene), 2.Iowa albino (T- gene), and 3.anerythristic gene. Heterozygous for 3 genes.
While this is the technically and scientifically correct nomenclature to describe the genotype, I end up explaining this to more people and then in the end when someone asks, "so can they make two different kinds of snow" and I tell them "yes they can" and they say "so they are het for snow" I basically give in and reluctantly say " yes aka het snow".
My point being scientifically correct doesn't have any value if it has no meaning to the audience. So generally, when I sell a multi-het snake I usually post the correct genotype and also add aka " het snow" or whatever, so that if you my audience prefers correct genotype they get that, and if they relate to phenotype possibilities in offspring they have that information as well.
i understand exactly what your saying. and i think they idenitify with the term het snow cause thier more popular than anery personally i prefer anery over snow and dont really use the term het anery. last year i bred albino het anery x albino het anery and didnt produce any anery about 1/4 of the litter was snow and 3/4 albino lol thats the main reason i started saying het snow. i just did a snow x anery pairing so can i expect half snow and half anery? every time i think something is going to happen it turns out to be different i bred a pair that is double het for albino and anery and produced different results every time the last time i bred them i got 11 albinos 6 snows 3 normal looking phenotype and 1 anery the first time i got 11 albinos and the rest were normal looking

[Jeff B]

i understand exactly what your saying. and i think they idenitify with the term het snow cause thier more popular than anery personally i prefer anery over snow and dont really use the term het anery. last year i bred albino het anery x albino het anery and didnt produce any anery about 1/4 of the litter was snow and 3/4 albino lol thats the main reason i started saying het snow. i just did a snow x anery pairing so can i expect half snow and half anery? every time i think something is going to happen it turns out to be different i bred a pair that is double het for albino and anery and produced different results every time the last time i bred them i got 11 albinos 6 snows 3 normal looking phenotype and 1 anery the first time i got 11 albinos and the rest were normal looking

Tommy,
Your first breeding you referenced"last year i bred albino het anery x albino het anery and didnt produce any anery about 1/4 of the litter was snow and 3/4 albino lol thats the main reason i started saying het snow.
Your breeding in red cannot produce anerythristics, please google punnet square and learn why not.

The second breeding you referenced"i bred a pair that is double het for albino and anery and produced different results every time the last time i bred them i got 11 albinos 6 snows 3 normal looking phenotype and 1 anery the first time i got 11 albinos and the rest were normal looking"
The result 6 snow,11 albino, 1 anery, 3 normal is reasonable for what is the expected probability ratio is 1:1:1:1
The results of 11 albinos and the rest (?number) is not impossible but would be suspect that the male that did the breeding was actually an albino either introduced by you or by the person that had her before you, unless you raiser her.

[Tommytradix]

thanks and the male came from a friend who got him from scott same male both times. my snow x anery breeding will produce anery though right cause the male is viaually anery?

[BUSHSNAKE]

1179711798i can picture them lol
WHERE?? all i see are dark looking easterns LOL...dude if wanna believe those are anerythristic then go for it i just thought it would be nice for you to hear another point of view.

[BUSHSNAKE]

The granite checkered is one of my favorites. I had to slim down my collection, do to time constraints, but I plan to get some again someday to work with. The pastel is a suttle morph.

mine too...i cant believe you got rid of those Jeff, i was wanting some granites but i have enough projects to keep me busy for a long time

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Oh no, not again! Lol! Who knows what's really going on with this color phase/morph. What's strange with mine is out of my f1's around half of them colored up to be just black and blue with some white under the chin and still a visual pattern. I don't know that i would call them anery since it don't appear to be a recessive trait, but since the Mohr and West Virginia are labeled as anery and they look very similar to the anery redsideds and plains I can see why they were labeled anery to keep down the confusion. (of course you don't consider the anery red sideds and the anery plains anery either do you Joe? You also don't consider the blue axanthic axanthic either do you?) In my opinion without further genetic testing we don't really know about half of the morphs we work with, but can only label them as accurate as we can determine from breeding results and appearance this will be my first year breeding siblings together so we will just have to see what pops out. The cool thing is some of them look kind of like the blue axanthic plains and some look like the anery plains (very dark).I can't wait to see what the f1's bred together will produce.
where?? All i see are dark looking easterns lol...dude if wanna believe those are anerythristic then go for it i just thought it would be nice for you to hear another point of view.

[Tommytradix]

Oh no, not again! Lol! Who knows what's really going on with this color phase/morph. What's strange with mine is out of my f1's around half of them colored up to be just black and blue with some white under the chin and still a visual pattern. I don't know that i would call them anery since it don't appear to be a recessive trait, but since the Mohr and West Virginia are labeled as anery and they look very similar to the anery redsideds and plains I can see why they were labeled anery to keep down the confusion. (of course you don't consider the anery red sideds and the anery plains anery either do you Joe? You also don't consider the blue axanthic axanthic either do you?) In my opinion without further genetic testing we don't really know about half of the morphs we work with, but can only label them as accurate as we can determine from breeding results and appearance this will be my first year breeding siblings together so we will just have to see what pops out. The cool thing is some of them look kind of like the blue axanthic plains and some look like the anery plains (very dark).I can't wait to see what the f1's bred together will produce.

do you have photos of them?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

118171181811819
do you have photos of them?

[Tommytradix]

118171181811819
wow! imo if thats not considered anery or axanthic idk what is lol im very interested in that pairing will you be holding all them or selling?

[Albert Clark]

What Scott refers to as quad hets--he means they are "het" for Nebraska albino, Iowa albino, Iowa snow, and Nebraska snow. Saying they are quad hets, referring to the 4 phenotypes possible in their offspring, is a bit of a misnomer, but to each there own, and quite frankly more people understand this than my technically correct version below.

Personally I would call them triple hets--because their genotype is heterozygous for: 1.Nebraska albino (T+ gene), 2.Iowa albino (T- gene), and 3.anerythristic gene. Heterozygous for 3 genes.
While this is the technically and scientifically correct nomenclature to describe the genotype, I end up explaining this to more people and then in the end when someone asks, "so can they make two different kinds of snow" and I tell them "yes they can" and they say "so they are het for snow" I basically give in and reluctantly say " yes aka het snow".
My point being scientifically correct doesn't have any value if it has no meaning to the audience. So generally, when I sell a multi-het snake I usually post the correct genotype and also add aka " het snow" or whatever, so that if you my audience prefers correct genotype they get that, and if they relate to phenotype possibilities in offspring they have that information as well.
Jeff, the pastels that I got from you are het for granite checkered right? :)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

If i get babies i will probably hold a couple back and sell the rest, but i'll have to wait and see what pops out! They are all 100% het fl albino too.
wow! Imo if thats not considered anery or axanthic idk what is lol im very interested in that pairing will you be holding all them or selling?

[Albert Clark]

If i get babies i will probably hold a couple back and sell the rest, but i'll have to wait and see what pops out! They are all 100% het fl albino too.
Hey Shawn, I'm in the market for the Iowa strain albinos if you are producing any please hit me up, thanks. Al. :)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I'm not gonna have many radixes available this year. I sold most of mine to focus on other projects. I keep mostly easterns with a few other odds and ends, lol!
Hey Shawn, I'm in the market for the Iowa strain albinos if you are producing any please hit me up, thanks. Al. :)

[Tommytradix]

If i get babies i will probably hold a couple back and sell the rest, but i'll have to wait and see what pops out! They are all 100% het fl albino too.
thanks keep me posted

[Tommytradix]

Hey Shawn, I'm in the market for the Iowa strain albinos if you are producing any please hit me up, thanks. Al. :)
ill probably have more than i can sell lol

[Albert Clark]

Cool Tommy, I will hit you with a pm when they become available.

[Tommytradix]

Cool Tommy, I will hit you with a pm when they become available.
ok