possible t. e. vagrans x t. s. fitichi hybrid?

[FireRedGarters]

Hey guys this isn't my photo I found it on another forum, but I find it very interesting. I've always wondered if hybridization happens because their population over laps in my area what are your guy's thoughts on this? Here's the image link. https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3944/15587413591_721f3902b5_b.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

wow

[Zdravko092368]

That's an interesting snake for sure.

[Eddie]

Very cool looking head. I wonder if its a hybrid or a morph?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I would say 100% vagrans/morph!

[BLUESIRTALIS]

If you look at it's pattern, color ,and head structure it all screams vagrans to me! I think the reason they thought it could be a hybrid was because it was found in an area of both vagrans and fitchi and has a little red coloration on it's head, but that's obviously a mutation. A hybrid wouldn't explain the pied looking nose and a hybrid would probably have more fitchi characteristics. Even the eyes look red! I would love to work with an animal like that it would be neat to see what pops up in future breedings! Just my opinion though!

[joeysgreen]

I agree with Bluesirtalis

[slipknot711]

wow gorgeous!

[snakegirl909]

Thats beautiful! I agree that it looks like a morph and not hybrid.

[MasSalvaje]

The original rational for it possibly being a hybrid had to do with the number and placement of head scales, including labial scales. Although the pattern is interesting for sure, there is more than the OP eluded to. As they mentioned it isn't their photo.

*I am not implying any of you are wrong by suggesting it is 100% vagrans, only that their is more to the story than appearance.*

-Thomas Wilder

[slipknot711]

found this, didnt read thru it all but maybe this will help Field Herp Forum • View topic - Possible Hybrid Wandering Gartersnake (http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20785)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I saw pics of this snake a few months back, but I just now read through it and that's strange about the supralabials. It looks like a pure vagrans though, weird! As far as the size of the eyes go though they look completely normal other than the color. Either way that crazy pied color nose and those red colored eyes looks more like a morph than something created by a hybrid. Very neat snake!
The original rational for it possibly being a hybrid had to do with the number and placement of head scales, including labial scales. Although the pattern is interesting for sure, there is more than the OP eluded to. As they mentioned it isn't their photo.

*I am not implying any of you are wrong by suggesting it is 100% vagrans, only that their is more to the story than appearance.*

-Thomas Wilder

[MasSalvaje]

It should be noted that there have been specimens of vagrans found that only have the 7 supralabials so even that muddies the waters as far as morph/hybrid possibilities. The only possibly conclusive way to determine this is through genetic work.

-Thomas Wilder

[Jeff B]

Very unique looking snake. The eyes say morph to me, kind of leucistic looking.