Sudden death?

[noparlpf]

Does anybody know why an apparently healthy snake would suddenly die?
I found a juvenile De Kay's brown snake in the x-ray room at work (weird place for a tiny snake) around September and took it in, figuring that with an injured tail and winter coming on it might be cruel to release it again. Since then it's been living in a tank in my room. The tail seemed to heal up fine. I've been changing the water and substrate regularly, feeding it what I can find (earthworms and slugs small enough for this thing are hard enough to find even before the ground starts freezing, and no bait shops are open in the winter, but a few sources said mealworms would probably work too and it did eat some of them) but definitely giving it something to eat about every five days. It lived four and a half months and probably grew about two inches. But this evening when my brother and I got home he went to check on it and it was dead, with a mealworm nibbling on it (ironic, huh). Not sure about yesterday because I was out all day, but it was still alive and moving around normally the day before yesterday.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Sorry for your loss! I would say the mealworms killed it, dekay's can't digest the exoskeleton of insects.

[noparlpf]

Really? I've read that they can eat small beetles, spiders, and insect grubs when they can't find earthworms or snails.

I'm not allowed to post links because I'm a new poster, I think, but one source I saw was Animal Diversity Web. Checking its references I did find part of Harding's "Amphibians and Reptiles of the Great Lakes Region" online on Google Books. That's a relatively recent textbook and it says for Storeria dekayi that "Earthworms and slugs form the greatest part of their diet, although snails, pill bugs, soft-bodied insects, and small amphibians are also eaten on occasion."

Could it be that although it can eat them for a while, mealworms aren't nutritionally complete and it needs more variety?

[Eddie]

Mealworms can live for awhile after being consumed. Then they try to eat their way out!!
I have had it happen to me many years ago. It sucks!

[slipknot711]

yes even some lizards have issues eating the bigger superworms because the damage they can do once ingested. for future reference petsmart sells worms.

[joeysgreen]

I would disagree with the mealworm analogy. While they aren't the ideal prey, they, or similar wood munching worms are likely eaten on a regular basis by dekay's in the wild. Many reptile species can most certainly digest chitin with the enzyme chitinase. I can't say specifically if dekay's have this but that is irrelevant to my point. In a healthy reptile, stomach acids quickly drown and kill any prey still living when ingested. However in ill and/or otherwise anorectic reptiles have atrophied stomach's that are relatively dry. In this case a prey item may live long enough to cause some damage. Nonetheless, stories of worms eating out of their reptiles are cases of finding them burrowing in deceased animals either from the inside out, or moreoften finding the carcass after hiding in the substrate.

You must have been doing something well as your snake was growing, but the fact remains that this is a very small snake, that is a prey species itself, thus signs of illness are going to be very discreet. What is observed as a sudden death could very well have been the result of something brewing for weeks. With that said, true sudden death can still happen for many of the same reasons we see in people. Heart attacks, aneurisms, ruptured splenic tumors, toxicities...

I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Most snakes including dekay's and garters can't digest the exoskeleton of insects. Do i think eating one mealworm would kill it probably not, but eating multiple mealworms would likely cause death. This has been a discussion for years on here cause of pet shops telling people to feed garters crickets. Now i realize that some snakes are insectivorous like opheodrys, tantilla, sonora, and several others, but this excludes browns. Northern browns feed primarly on worms and snails/slugs.

[noparlpf]

yes even some lizards have issues eating the bigger superworms because the damage they can do once ingested. for future reference petsmart sells worms.

I didn't go for the huge ones, I got the normal smaller ones.

And I don't have a PetSmart anywhere near me, just a Petco, and although their fridge had a list including earthworms, for some reason the guy said the warehouse wouldn't ship them worms for me. And no bait shops around were open because I guess fishing is seasonal.

[ObsidianDragon]

My local petco doesn't have EARTHworms, but they do have nightcrawlers. I don't know why they list earthworms but don't carry them. Pbbbt.

[noparlpf]

My local petco doesn't have EARTHworms, but they do have nightcrawlers. I don't know why they list earthworms but don't carry them. Pbbbt.

None of those either. Nothing except wax worms, mealworms, and "super" mealworms. The sign on the fridge lists earthworms, nightcrawlers, and half a dozen other things too. The guy at the register even called and tried to order them for me but the warehouse or whatever just refused. No idea why.

[Zdravko092368]

Luckily the bait shops near me sell worms still for ice fishing... Surprised yours dont.

[noparlpf]

Luckily the bait shops near me sell worms still for ice fishing... Surprised yours dont.

The ones where I used to live did; here we don't have any nice lakes or ponds for ice fishing. Most of the fishing here is on the coast and I guess salt water being constantly moved by tides doesn't freeze very well.

[joeysgreen]

Blue, you may very well be correct in that Dekay's cannot digest chitin. With the linear gastrointestinal tract I still don't see a healthy snake getting obstructed or injured from it. Nonetheless, I could expect diarrhea or other disruptions that could certainly cause illness, such that if clinical signs not being observed, "sudden death" would be the result.

Ian