Not sure what's wrong..

[Qwerty3159]

Yesterday my snake shed, complete. He also shed around the 29th of December and then the 3rd of the last month as well.
I noticed today he was moving very slow and seemed to be having trouble getting around. I picked him up and his whole underside felt very soft- softer than normal. Are snakes softer after they shed? I don't handle this guy a whole lot because he's so little and I don't want to smoosh him so I wouldn't really know lol. Anyways the lines between his ventral scales have darkened a bit looking like stripes but I don't think that is the problem. The problem is he's just acting bizarre, moving strangely, and holding his back end off the floor.

Overall he's been lethargic and slow-moving, has been holding his tail off the floor with random parts of his body elevated, and hasn't been doing much. He also crawled right through his food without glancing at it, which is very unusual with him. He's doing some tongue flickering now and then so he's not totally listless :confused: He's been pretty much problem free and I'm stumped.

Any advice?

[d_virginiana]

This sounds exactly how one of mine acted when she had some parasites that are uncommon to snakes (bizarre sheds and everything). They are common in mammals though; has he been eating mice?
I'd recommend getting a fecal test done at your vet. They're pretty cheap, and even dog/cat vets will usually do fecals even if they don't usually treat reptiles.

[Qwerty3159]

He/she is eating fish and occasional nightcrawlers as of now, and has been since August when I got it. I would assume parasites would have showed up before now? Regardless I'll try to get a fecal test done.

[d_virginiana]

I don't know a lot about parasites; there could easily be others that cause similar problems living in fish. It may not be that, but it sounds similar enough that you may want to check on it.
The thing that really sounds like what I dealt with is the soft skin and extremely slow movement. I've never seen anything else quite like it.

[Qwerty3159]

Thanks- it's worth a try.
His behavior has gotten a bit better. Could the softness be from the shed?

[d_virginiana]

I've never had a normal shed that ended up that way. The only time was when dealing with the parasite; apparently it destroyed connective tissue and cause the skin to be ridiculously soft.

[Qwerty3159]

Huh.

I wouldn't have guessed parasites. Do you remember the name of the parasite, by any chance? If not it won't make much difference just curious.

[d_virginiana]

Nah, don't remember. All I remember is that it's one that's more typically found in mammals, so they didn't catch it at first.

[Qwerty3159]

Alright, well thanks :)

I guess some good news is that he's at least hydrated- as I've caught him drinking at least four times today.

[guidofatherof5]

You will very rarely see parasites in stool. It takes a fecal float and a microscope to see the eggs.

[Qwerty3159]

I'm gonna try and have a fecal test done at a vet's. Unfortunately, this is of course two days after I changed the paper in his tank, and he refused food today, so I might have to wait a little bit before I actually have feces available to test!

[slipknot711]

let me know how it works out please. Also if you know of a reptile vet let me know?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

When is the last time you noticed new feces in the cage? Crawling around with his taiil up in the air could mean constipation or a blockage. Any pics?
i'm gonna try and have a fecal test done at a vet's. Unfortunately, this is of course two days after i changed the paper in his tank, and he refused food today, so i might have to wait a little bit before i actually have feces available to test!

[Qwerty3159]

Last time there was feces was two days ago after he had eaten and digested. There is no new feces as he refused food yesterday. I haven't tried yet today.

[Qwerty3159]

Sorry for the double post but I missed my window of time to edit lol. What would cause constipation? I'm fairly sure he has cleared out everything he had in him from the feeding several days ago. His temps are fine and he moves all around the tank thermoregulating and drinking. I'll try for a pic later.

[snakegirl909]

Ashley, I know of a reptile vet, but it is prob too far away from you.
If he went two days ago after he had eaten and digested it wouldn't be constipation i don't think. What have you been feeding him?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

If it's been that recent it's probably not a blockage or constipation. Most of the time when they crawl around with there tail up they're trying to pass fecal matter so it was just a thought! If it was some type of blockage you would most likely feel it by gently running your finger down the snakes belly, but since it recently passed feces that shouldn't be the case.
Sorry for the double post but I missed my window of time to edit lol. What would cause constipation? I'm fairly sure he has cleared out everything he had in him from the feeding several days ago. His temps are fine and he moves all around the tank thermoregulating and drinking. I'll try for a pic later.

[slipknot711]

[QUOTE=snakegirl909;260434]Ashley, I know of a reptile vet, but it is prob too far away from you.
QUOTE]

yeah i think it may be too far away. text me the address or website if they have one? there is one not TOO far from me i think but i had read a few bad reviews. i asked qwerty since hes not far from me

[slipknot711]

any way to get a picture?

[Qwerty3159]

A picture of the vent? Sure. He's pretty listless now so it was not difficult. :(
He also continues to show no interest in eating and without food there is no poop so I'm not sure when I'll be able to get a fecal... I don't think the tail is really a problem and he hasn't been holding it funny since yesterday.


Could his problem be brumation? I think it's odd that he'd start now but I guess anything is really possible.


Regardless, here's a pic. I have no idea why it looks red in one part but I can assure you his whole belly is that greenish cream color and its just the camera acting up. I tried to get his vent right on top of the black bar on the edge of the table- sorry for the poor quality..
http://i.imgur.com/OH6la4Pl.jpg


Edit: Sorry I didn't answer some of these earlier. He's been eating fish and occasional nightcrawlers, and has been fine for 6 months up until yesterday.
Also sorry I didn't see the vet thing sooner. I don't know of any herp vets actually as none of my animals have ever had a problem. I'm looking for one :confused:

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Ok the red is just a reflection from the red item on the table. It might just be me, but it looks like something is restricting about an inch or so above the vent. Are you a 100% sure it couldn't be a partial stuck shed or something. Take a top pic of the whole snake if you can.

[d_virginiana]

Yeah, it does look like something is restricting just above the vent there... Even if this is related to a stuck shed you may still want to get a fecal float done. That's how it started with mine; a stuck shed that was weirdly soft underneath.

[Qwerty3159]

Are you referring to that line dead center in his belly an inch or so above the vent? He's always had those all over most of his belly just its more apparent there due to the angle creating a shadow of it. I don't think its stuck shed because he has shed four times since I posted about them a while ago and they've all been fine. Or are you talking about something else, such as those dark lines.

His shed was complete as of my knowledge but regardless I'll try and see if I can get it off. What is concerning to me is that area above his vent is the spot I sometimes see him holding off the floor along with his tail these past few days so it would make some sense. I'm hoping that that is the cause of the problems.
Should I just do the thing for the eyecaps where I leave him in a tub overnight?


Edit: I just watched him drinking from his dish. A minute later he slithered into his hide and spat all the water up. I get that they can do this when startled or picked up when they're swallowing the water but he randomly just spat up a whole puddle of water. What is going on with my snake :(

I have been examining his past shed skin over and over again and it is totally complete. I have no idea what is doing on with his underside

[d_virginiana]

Spitting up water was another sign of the parasite mine had! If I'm right and that's what's going on it'll get a lot worse pretty quickly; I made the mistake of waiting too long and it damaged her system. The similarities between this and what mine had are eerie.

If you've never preserved a fecal sample before, you can wrap the sample in a damp paper towel and put that inside a plastic bag and keep it in your refrigerator for a couple days. That way you have time to either call your vet and see if he'll do the fecal float for a snake or find a herp vet.

[Qwerty3159]

Okay, definitely getting it looked at. I wish he would eat for me so I can get a fecal sample! I've been a bit stingy with cleaning and there's a little tiny smear on the leaf of one of his plants. Its been sitting for a few days at least. Would that be good enough?

[d_virginiana]

I'm not an expert on fecal samples, but I'm pretty sure it has to be preserved fresh. I don't think it works if it dries out (hence the wet paper towel).

[Qwerty3159]

Ahh OK.
Any advice on force feeding or something? I'm only wanting to do it so that he poops and then I can get a sample.

[d_virginiana]

I wouldn't force-feed. If he's sick and already stressed, my guess is you'd just end up with the food coming back the same way as the water did. Maybe try as many different foods as possible. Mine suddenly started refusing everything but fish (when she would actually take food) when she got sick.

He probably won't go too long without either eating or pooping for you to get a sample in time. I'd only recommend force-feeding an adult as a very desperate last option; if not it could easily make things worse.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Force feeding is a bad idea at this point. You might be able to stimulate some movement by giving it a few soaks in some very shallow luke warm water and then gently massaging the belly, but be very cautious while the snake is in the wter if the snake is still lethargic.

[Qwerty3159]

Alright. When I get home I'll try a soak

I've offered him fish and Nightcrawlers today and he was absolutely uninterested. I'll keep trying though. I'll buy several different kinds and hope he takes to one before the parasites damage him

[Qwerty3159]

Well he's been soaking for near 40 minutes and nothing yet.
Also I live with my parents (obviously due to the fact I haven't yet even got out of high school) and they seem convinced the fecal test and possible meds the snake would need would be way more than the meager 100 dollars I have to spend for this snake's problem. Any idea of the cost?

[d_virginiana]

Fecal float aren't very expensive. The parasite meds themselves aren't bad (at least in my experience). Combined they may go a little bit above $100, but probably not by much. I feel like you're looking at a fixable problem that's worth treating. If your parents are concerned about cost, you can always call the vet and ask for an estimate.

[Qwerty3159]

Thanks. At least now I only have to wait and hope he passes something for me so I can bring it in.
Sorry if this has been answered already but is the weakness and weird rubbery and soft skin caused by the parasites? Will they be cured? I'd hate to see him suffer any more because just crawling onto his hide drained him.

[d_virginiana]

In my case, yeah, the weakness and bizarre skin texture were caused by the parasites. Again, you won't know 100% about what's causing it till you get the fecal done, but it does sound enough like what I dealt with that IMO it's worth testing for.
You may want to mention to the vet all the similarities to the mammalian parasite issue I had just to be sure they look for those. Not sure if that's something they normally include in a fecal float.

[d_virginiana]

Also, they may automatically assume it's a thiaminase issue since you feed fish and you're seeing weakness and strange movements; I would strongly advise against letting them administer B1 shots before they do a fecal exam. That is what happened with me, and I ended up being glad I told them to hold off till I got the fecal float results back.
That's just my personal philosophy on treatment though; do the less invasive stuff first and see if there's an easy non-invasive fix before you let them do something with more potential after-effects.

[Qwerty3159]

Thanks for telling me that.

Today when I got home he was slumped in the water dish and I thought for sure he was dead.
He wasn't. He's still kicking, drinking from the bowl with gusto, only for it to gush out of his mouth minutes later like a horrific water fountain. Unfortunately, after yet another soak he still hasn't passed anything, and refused about every type of food I could have given him.

I guess I'll wait and see. There's not much I can do if I can't get a fecal specimen!
Should I try adding some sort of medication to his water? I'm sure he keeps a little bit in him each time he spits up so maybe a bit of anti-parasite could help.

[d_virginiana]

Anti-parasitics can cause problems if you medicate for the wrong parasite or get the dosage wrong. I wouldn't do anything in this case unless a vet tells you to.

There's probably SOMETHING left in his system that just hasn't come out yet. You may want to put him in a hospital type setup; remove all decor except for a hide and water dish and paper towels for bedding (if his skin's sensitive he'd probably appreciate that). That way any poo will stand out and it'll be easier to preserve it for the vet.

[Qwerty3159]

I've actually done that already.
The only thing is his tank is his water dish and two hides. Let's hope he fights through long enough to provide a sample. He's soaking now.

[Qwerty3159]

Thank you for all your help guys. I truly am blessed.

Unfortunately, the snake passed away several minutes ago. I wish there was something I could have done. I appreciate all of your input and I hope his last days weren't as painful as they seemed. He will be missed.

Good luck, little guy. You shouldn't have been taken so soon.
http://i.imgur.com/U5EdH4cl.jpg

[d_virginiana]

Sorry to hear that :(

[guidofatherof5]

That's a shame. Sorry for your loss.

[slipknot711]

oh no, im so sorry to hear about your loss. let me know if i can help or help you in getting another. dont be discouraged.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Sorry for your loss!

[indigoman]

Sorry to read of your loss.

[Mommy2many]

I'm so sorry to hear that he passed. Sorry for your loss.

[snakegirl909]

Im sorry for your loss :(