Garter ID

[MDahms]

Here are the photos of the female snake that I am hoping to have identified. I was told the snakes were purchased at a reptile expo and were CB. They were sold to me as checkered Garters but I am very doubtful of this ID and think they look more like Easterns or a form of the Red Sided Garter. Any help with Identification would be very much appreciated as I am still new to Garters and don't trust my identification skills yet. The reduced red pattern along the side of this snake has me wondering just what I might have.


11503

11502



Mike

[jmonahan]

In my opinion it is definitely not a red-sided, at least not a color phase I've ever seen. It doesn't appear to have any of the characteristics typical of marcianus either. I'm not as familiar with all the colors/patterns found in sirtalis but your snake comes close to some I've seen. At any rate, its an interesting and pretty little snake. It'll be interesting to see how it changes as it grows.

Joe

[snakegirl909]

I love her!!
I'd say some kind of eastern morph. Beautiful snake whatever she is.

[Stefan-A]

Interesting looking T. sirtalis sirtalis.

[slipknot711]

i too think its an eastern... that red is so vibrant tho!!!!!! gorgeous snake no matter what... remember, we love garter snakes pictures here! dont be shy!

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Very nice! Pure thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis from up north.

[MDahms]

Thank you everyone, for the help in identifying my Garters. I'm happy that they are T. siritalis siritalis as I really like the look of the melanistic and the flame morphs. I am most interested in the wild colour forms and T. siritalis sure has a huge variety to offer.

Mike

[d_virginiana]

Looks like an albino T. sirtalis sirtalis with quite a bit of red on him. Looks almost identical to one of mine.

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10452344_10152567298713035_1866463974453720430_n.j pg?oh=849d541ca7487a065fc77c4f94d974e3&oe=55187F19

[joeysgreen]

It doesn't look like an eastern to me, but they are very variable; pretty much anything could pass as an eastern. One of the Thamnophis elegans subspecies comes to mind. How many labial scales are there? What colour are the ventrals? Large amounts of black?

[d_virginiana]

The snake is an albino, so there won't be black anywhere on it. As far as I'm aware only a limited number of species have albinos on the market; checkered, eastern, radix, similis... Can't think of any more right now, but I don't think I've ever seen an albino elegans for sale.

[d_virginiana]

Okay, after I posted that I'm seeing a couple flecks of darker color... Is that black, or is it just really dark red?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

It's just a light colored normal eastern from up north! Maybe Indiana, Ohio, or Pennsylvania. I have worked with some just like it and when bred to flames and ery's they are just stunning! Are you sure it's a female?

[MDahms]

Ok I am a bit confused, who's snake are we talking about now?
Lora your snake does resemble mine, other than the fact that it's albino. Has yours gotten more red with age?
The ventral scales on my snake are a solid olive greenish colour, no black. I tried to count the labial scales and, well, that's not going to happen. The female is still quite small so it's just too hard to see, maybe a photo will help. The other snake is only half the size of the one I am assuming is a female and they were sold as a pair. Next time I take photos I will try to get some better diagnostic ones, the vent and tail plus a macro of the head in profile.

Bluesiritalis I wonder if there are Easterns that look like this here in Ontario. I am so used to seeing very dark black snakes with yellow lines, not this olive green background and black checker pattern. I will have to keep an eye out next summer and photograph the local Garters. There is a good photo on Herptrips.com where an Eastern that looks like my snake was photographed in New Jersey, third page of the New Jersey instalment I believe. That's a great website either way, lots of photos and info there.

I was really hoping on getting a high red Eastern to make a small group, still worried that my two are siblings and I don't really want them breeding if that's the case. I guess I should wait until I have a definite ID before I go looking for a mate. I will work on getting better photos. The larger of the two is calming down but I still like to keep handling to a minimum unless I am going to be offering food as a reward. The smaller of the two is flightily and I don't want to stress it out.

Mike

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Here is one that was found in Indiana that has the red on it. It is a little darker, but it is larger than yours pictured and is wc so it is probably got some stains on it as well.https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7342/14060888983_3166119412_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nqvJqp)

[MDahms]

Nice snake, well minus the chunk missing from it's back. lol
The colouration is quite similar, if only a little darker.

Mike

[Didymus20X6]

I've caught lots of Easterns that have those red-colored patterns on their sides.

[d_virginiana]

Yours is def an eastern, but the first glance I took it looked albino to me, then I looked at it again and realized it wasn't.

[Martinz21]

I would disagree with calling it an albino. It isn't missing any black as you can see in its eyes, labial scales, and pattern on the sides. I would almost say that it is lacking either the pigment that causes green/blue I am not sure what that would be, but I don't think it is albino

[MDahms]

My snake is definitely not albino, that's not in question and Lora retracted her earlier comment concerning albinism.
I think it's settled then, it's an Eastern Garter. Thanks for the help everyone. I will still update with more photos when I have time.

Mike

[joeysgreen]

lol, I'm not arguing at all with you Blue but had to chuckle with your reference to "eastern from up North"... "Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvannia" :) Those are all good southern herp'n places for a lot of us !

I've herped Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana and didn't come across that pattern, but did see some nice red's in a Missouri specimen.

When compared to the pictured Indiana animal it almost looks like the OP's snake was bred for reduced pattern.

Ian

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Lol! I meant up north for me! I live in south carolina. I have seen similiar looking animals from all three states. I have also seen similar animals from new york.
lol, i'm not arguing at all with you blue but had to chuckle with your reference to "eastern from up north"... "indiana, ohio, pennsylvannia" :) those are all good southern herp'n places for a lot of us !

I've herped wisconsin, ohio and indiana and didn't come across that pattern, but did see some nice red's in a missouri specimen.

When compared to the pictured indiana animal it almost looks like the op's snake was bred for reduced pattern.

Ian

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I dream of herping Wisconsin someday as they have some of the nicest looking eastern garters!

[Zdravko092368]

Bluesiritalis I wonder if there are Easterns that look like this here in Ontario. I am so used to seeing very dark black snakes with yellow lines, not this olive green background and black checker pattern. I will have to keep an eye out next summer and photograph the local Garters. There is a good photo on Herptrips.com where an Eastern that looks like my snake was photographed in New Jersey, third page of the New Jersey instalment I believe. That's a great website either way, lots of photos and info there.

Mike

There definitely are those easterns in Ontario as i've seen them before. Ontario has nearly every type of eastern garter I can think of, i've found brown, black, blue phase, light green head, olive, silver phase, albino, orange belly, melanistic and flame all this year in Ontario.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I would say you probably have some locales that have that same look. Eastern garters are just so variable. I think you should get a flame to breed to her.


Ok I am a bit confused, who's snake are we talking about now?
Lora your snake does resemble mine, other than the fact that it's albino. Has yours gotten more red with age?
The ventral scales on my snake are a solid olive greenish colour, no black. I tried to count the labial scales and, well, that's not going to happen. The female is still quite small so it's just too hard to see, maybe a photo will help. The other snake is only half the size of the one I am assuming is a female and they were sold as a pair. Next time I take photos I will try to get some better diagnostic ones, the vent and tail plus a macro of the head in profile.

Bluesiritalis I wonder if there are Easterns that look like this here in Ontario. I am so used to seeing very dark black snakes with yellow lines, not this olive green background and black checker pattern. I will have to keep an eye out next summer and photograph the local Garters. There is a good photo on Herptrips.com where an Eastern that looks like my snake was photographed in New Jersey, third page of the New Jersey instalment I believe. That's a great website either way, lots of photos and info there.

I was really hoping on getting a high red Eastern to make a small group, still worried that my two are siblings and I don't really want them breeding if that's the case. I guess I should wait until I have a definite ID before I go looking for a mate. I will work on getting better photos. The larger of the two is calming down but I still like to keep handling to a minimum unless I am going to be offering food as a reward. The smaller of the two is flightily and I don't want to stress it out.

Mike

[MDahms]

That was my plan, either some time this winter or the spring. I am torn between a high red or an orange, might have to get one of each.

Mike

[d_virginiana]

might have to get one of each.



This is how the addiction starts. :rolleyes:

[Zdravko092368]

Let the addiction begin lol. Beware, there's no escape once you're converted.