Young Garter Not Eating

[Sneaky Salamander]

Hey everyone! I'll post on the forum later so you can meet my babies, but I have a problem. I've had my garters for about two and a half weeks. I got them from a reptile convention, but I don't know who the breeders were so I can't ask them what they were eating.

Both of my garters have the same set up (it's a two compartment small cage with a heater, water bowl, lots of aspen shavings, and some fake plants) but the Eastern Black-necked (Jack) is eating and doing fine while the California Red-sided (Calypso) is not eating. Calypso seems a lot more skittish than Jack. I originally tried pinkie pieces but they were scared of the tongs and ignored the food when I left them in a tupperware with it for about 30 minutes. I am currently feeding them live rosy minnows (I know you don't recommend them but I'm desperate to get her to eat) by leaving them in their water bowls. I recently added meal worms in another bowl to see if Calypso would eat them, and I am getting earthworms tomorrow to see if those work. I've already force fed Calypso once, because the minnow was about to die cuz the water had evaporated, but I don't want to make that my regular feeding method cuz it will stress her out. How can I get her to eat?

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[Libis]

From what little I understand, garter snakes can't eat mealworms. (They can't digest them.) Beyond that, I should probably leave the rest of this to more experienced people (as I am new to reptiles in general.)

[ObsidianDragon]

Uh...why's your heater on the side? Under tank heaters are usually...underneath the tank. Warmer air is great to a point, but it isn't really helpful when it comes to their being able to digest their food.

UTH's should also be controlled with a thermostat, to prevent overheating. Nobody wants a cooked snake. :(

If your husbandy is off, that could be why one of the snakes isn't eating. Once you fix that, try:

-Putting the food on a plate, covering the enclosure, and leaving the snake alone for awhile. This is how I have to feed my Checkered. Leaving them in their enclosure might help them feel more secure, same with covering it.

-There's a list of fish that are safe to feed garters here: All About Thiaminase - Gartersnake.info (http://www.gartersnake.info/articles/2012/all-about-thiaminase.php)

-You can try earthworms or nightcrawler worm (pieces, if needed).




You might also want some more places for them to hide--skittish animals don't want to feel exposed, although it's nice to see they can hide in their bedding. Mine loves that. :) Makes finding him a PITA, but well.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Ditch the mealworms as they are not a good food source for garters and garters can't digest the exoskeleton of insects . The snake look's healthy. I would say to try fish, pinks, and nightcrawler pcs until you figure out what it prefers and then you can use the preferred item for scenting. I feed my garters nightcrawlers and mice as i've had bad luck with fish myself. Make sure you don't get red wigglers because they are toxic. Nice looking snakes!

[gibble888]

For your ca red... earthworm chunks with a little water...turn the lights off and leave it alone for a while. It may take some time even hours. Do not feed fish of any kind frozen or fresh. Thats all im gonna say about that. Good luck

[Qwerty3159]

I am far from an expert, but you might want t rip that tape off the heat pad, before it melts.

If you have to tape a heat pad, use some kind of foil tape, made to withstand heat.
https://www.google.com/search?q=foil+tape&biw=1024&bih=657&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=DQvQVMC9HJPfgwTDnYOADg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg

[d_virginiana]

For your ca red... earthworm chunks with a little water...turn the lights off and leave it alone for a while. It may take some time even hours. Do not feed fish of any kind frozen or fresh. Thats all im gonna say about that. Good luck


There is no reason not to feed fish. Many members of this forum do. It's important to know which fish have Thiaminase in them so you can avoid them though... There's a 'safe fish' list somewhere I'm just having a hard time finding it.
"Sally's San Fransisco Bay Silversides" are a good brand of frozen fish you can try.

[gibble888]

Check out the sick garter thread...sounds like exactly the same problem i was having y3ars ago. I stopped feeding silversides and every snake that did not eat them ever is still alive today. Every snake that had even a bite is gone. Some take longer than others. Same exact death. That is not coincidence. Why risk it when we have earthworm s and pinks.

[d_virginiana]

lol Tell that to all the wild garters that eat fish-heavy diets.
I've been here long enough to have seen dozens of SUPPOSED B1-deficiency garter threads-- supposed being the key word. Unless a vet confirmed something prior to death or via necropsy, you don't know that that's why your snakes died. There are a dozen things that can cause seizures; plenty of them are environmental. You could have gotten a batch of silversides contaminated with something; goodness knows things like that can happen with all food items.
We 'risk it' because certain fish simply do not contain Thiaminase, which is what causes the B1 deficiency.

No one is saying you have to feed your snakes fish, but telling new keepers that you can't feed fish because they will cause seizures just isn't accurate.

[gibble888]

Contaminated. ...exactly! Bad batch of SALLY SILVERSIDES...now you got it. Im done flushing mine down the toilet and all i had to do is stop feeding silversides. Maybe its California red sided are more susceptible.

[d_virginiana]

You didn't say anything about Sally's Silversides. You said don't feed any fish fresh or frozen...
Also I think you're confusing thiaminase with potential contamination.

... I had a snake get a mammalian parasite from a batch of pinkies once that she eventually died from. I realize that that was a fluke, so I don't go around telling new keepers never to feed pinkie mice just because I got a bad batch once.

[d_virginiana]

BAHAHA, I just realized this thread is from last september and the OP never made another post.

[gibble888]

Fish have parasites. Its pretty simple. Do some digging in this forum..put 2 and 2 together. Raise your own feeder fish...sure but i know i dont have time for that.

[d_virginiana]

First of all, I do raise my own guppies for young non-eaters. It actually takes next to no time and they multiply like crazy.

Secondly, what are you talking about? Seizures and B1 deficiency are completely different than parasites. Contamination is different from either of them. Which one did you think your snakes died from?
Parasites die if frozen long enough-- actually research what you're saying. I have reason to believe that the store I was buying my mice from was lying about how long/deep they froze them which is why parasites make sense in that scenario. Parasites likely were not your issue with Sally's Silversides.

[gibble888]

I dont give a crap what was in the silversides that killed my snakes...they are dead. Get it!

[d_virginiana]

Uh... Sorry your snakes died. Sucks for you. Really has nothing to do with whether or not silversides are generally safe though.

[gibble888]

Then feed away!! OUT

[d_virginiana]

Have been. Will do. Have a 13 year old still pounding them down and in excellent health.
This whole thread makes next to no sense.

[gibble888]

As long as we have your vast knowledge to keep us all straight;)

[d_virginiana]

Not vast. Just supported. Thought you were out.

[gibble888]

My advise was not for you anyway.

[d_virginiana]

Your advice was flawed. Feeding safe fish is perfectly fine and a practice condoned and carried out by many people on this forum, as well as supported in the caresheet.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Easy guyz, lol! We all have our opinions on what's safe for our beloved animals and this debate has been going on for years. A good reptile keeper would do as much research as they can on an animal before taking the word of one hobbyist anyways. I personally only use fish now as a last resort. I had bad luck with live guppies due to parasites and some frozen tilapia years ago, but come to find out it was the chemicals that the tilapia was treated with. Now i buy fresh tilapia or catch bluegill and clean them and freeze for a few months in case i get an animal that prefers fish or won't eat anything else and as soon as i can i scent and switch them over to mice and nightcrawlers. Now i will occasionally give my adults a treat of fish if i'm running low on mice. In my opinion though i wouldn't use fish as a staple due to the heavy metals in fish and because i like to vary their diet. I also think that fish makes their poo more smelly, lol. I also had a higher success rate on the babies I started out on nightcrawlers and mice parts vs the ones I started on fish. Just my opinion!

[d_virginiana]

I primarily use fish to either get young ones eating or when my oldest one goes off other food. Accidentally ended up with my own guppy colony lol.

I'm not saying fish is the best thing ever, but I feel like to blatantly say that feeding all fish is bad is unfair as it doesn't give someone all the information they need to make an informed choice on it, especially if someone doesn't really know what the problem with the fish was.

[gibble888]

The probloem i had WAS with fish and i know it for a fact...maybe you dont have the same prob thats fine. I just didnt want to see someone have the same outcome as i did and may been extreme in my no fish comment. I've done searches on snakes that are acting odd...like trying to bite their ear off and found sally silversides being mentioned most of the time.

[d_virginiana]

The probloem i had WAS with fish and i know it for a fact...maybe you dont have the same prob thats fine. I just didnt want to see someone have the same outcome as i did and may been extreme in my no fish comment. I've done searches on snakes that are acting odd...like trying to bite their ear off and found sally silversides being mentioned most of the time.

I can get on board with that. I'm all for telling people stories about personal experiences, so long as it lets them make a choice on their own.