My venomous Garter... total resemblance!

[Muslim1]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/buglight141/Picture1.jpg

[Muslim1]

They evolved from colubrids...

[SSSSnakes]

They evolved from colubrids...

How can you prove that statement?

[Mommy2many]

She's awesome!

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Sweet! Is that a sunset or just a regular albino? I used to work with venomous before my son was born.

[Muslim1]

Regular albino. Garters remind me of cobras. It must be that they are both so inquisitive.

[Muslim1]

Sorry. I forgot there are the high horse know it alls in every forum. They are "thought" by many to have evolved from colubrids. Does that help sweetie?

Steven

[SSSSnakes]

Sorry. I forgot there are the high horse know it alls in every forum. They are "thought" by many to have evolved from colubrids. Does that help sweetie?

Steven

Ask a question and get a snotty answer. You made a statement and I just asked for the facts. I'm not your sweetie.

If I was on my "high horse", I would not be asking the question trying to learn. People who make non factual statements and can't back them up, tend to get defensive when questioned. People who give snotty answers like you are why other people leave forums and why forums are dying.

Have a good day

[slipknot711]

:eek:

[BLUESIRTALIS]

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? LOL! I HAVE HEARD THIS SUBJECT BROUGHT UP MANY TIMES, BUT NOT JUST COBRAS ALL VENOMOUS. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I FOUND IN CLOSE PROXIMTY TO THIS SUBJECT.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsu.edu%2F~kkardong%2FWeb%252 0of%2520KVK_06b%2FPublications%2FEvolution_venom_a pp82.pdf&ei=qUWgU-3aCdWkqAaItILwBA&usg=AFQjCNE7f0d8ttyUPXHgra_UrUo18yGwpw&sig2=C73dpfgTi_CSrDN3Nwq63g&bvm=bv.68911936,d.b2k

[BLUESIRTALIS]

What is the little bump on it's back? Is it a water drop, poop, or is it an actual bump of some sort?
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/buglight141/picture1.jpg

[Muslim1]

Wow. I had one kid crawling on me, dinner on the stove and hadn't slept the previous night. My reply to the "colubrid" statement was uncalled for.

[guidofatherof5]

Wow. I had one kid crawling on me, dinner on the stove and hadn't slept the previous night. My reply to the "colubrid" statement was uncalled for.


May I suggest you post this to that thread.;) We all can have a bad day.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/13537-my-venomous-garter-total-resemblance.html#post256560

[SSSSnakes]

Wow. I had one kid crawling on me, dinner on the stove and hadn't slept the previous night. My reply to the "colubrid" statement was uncalled for.

No problem. Everything is good.

[SSSSnakes]

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? LOL! I HAVE HEARD THIS SUBJECT BROUGHT UP MANY TIMES, BUT NOT JUST COBRAS ALL VENOMOUS. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I FOUND IN CLOSE PROXIMTY TO THIS SUBJECT.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsu.edu%2F~kkardong%2FWeb%252 0of%2520KVK_06b%2FPublications%2FEvolution_venom_a pp82.pdf&ei=qUWgU-3aCdWkqAaItILwBA&usg=AFQjCNE7f0d8ttyUPXHgra_UrUo18yGwpw&sig2=C73dpfgTi_CSrDN3Nwq63g&bvm=bv.68911936,d.b2k

Thanks for the link. No real facts or proof, and when the author starts off like this, "
The venom apparatus of poisonous snakes consists of a fang and associated venom gland (or

glands). ".
I question his knowledge calling a venomous snake poisonous.

Not trying to start any kind of argument. Just pointing out a fact.

[Muslim1]

Water.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I agree, i thought the same thing and wasn't saying these were facts i just googled did cobras evolve from colubrids and this is all i could find. I have been working with herps for over 20 years and know that poison dart frogs are poisonous and cobras are venomous, lol! I will say this back around 20 years ago alot of people called venomous snakes poisonous and some still do.this was just the only thing i could find that stated that venomous snakes evolved from colubrids so i thought i would share so you could see why some people might think this.
thanks for the link. No real facts or proof, and when the author starts off like this, "
the venom apparatus of poisonous snakes consists of a fang and associated venom gland (or

glands). ".
I question his knowledge calling a venomous snake poisonous.

Not trying to start any kind of argument. Just pointing out a fact.

[guidofatherof5]

I agree, i thought the same thing and wasn't saying these were facts i just googled did cobras evolve from colubrids and this is all i could find. I have been working with herps for over 20 years and know that poison dart frogs are poisonous and cobras are venomous, lol! I will say this back around 20 years ago alot of people called venomous snakes poisonous and some still do.this was just the only thing i could find that stated that venomous snakes evolved from colubrids so i thought i would share so you could see why some people might think this.

Very good point Shawn and the fact the author Kenneth V. Kardong has many peer reviewed papers/books published.


Washington State University - Kenneth Kardong (http://sbs.wsu.edu/faculty/?faculty/17)

Amazon.com: Kenneth V. Kardong: Books (http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27%3AKenneth%20V.%20Kardong)

An Introduction to Biological Evolution: 9780073050775: Science & Mathematics Books @ Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Biological-Evolution-Kenneth-Kardong/dp/0073050776/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403096731&sr=8-1&keywords=Introduction+to+Biological+Evolution+%2F+ Edition+2)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

There is even a few books called Poisonous Snakes.

http://img1.r10.io/PIC/38189964/0/1/300/38189964.jpg (http://www.rakuten.com/prod/poisonous-snakes/221402868.html?listingId=339222701&scid=pla_google_SpeedyhenLLC&adid=17260&gclid=CjkKEQjw8YSdBRChhPXJvPvMztABEiQAkn893p37wUKU 1R9kpbwJkbxZ0E8EJe6y63xLwwSY3z1wuCjw_wcB#)
http://bks5.books.google.com/books?id=ym4Kjg8W9JQC&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&edge=curl&imgtk=AFLRE73PoLs70HoWE6LYrWuRBJPrQrq-jG_NKcAHDSqByZL2Or8YbXINnlUQGqFnwI9qvT8F0dRoo3-wwVjNGaDWyORwnA_h07agFQ-rNFiuMDea1s4JyrUGj7HT16rB5F_fztYzZ_2X (http://books.google.com/books?id=ym4Kjg8W9JQC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Thanks! I thought it was just a water drop, but it was hard to tell.
water.

[SSSSnakes]

Very good point Shawn and the fact the author Kenneth V. Kardong has many peer reviewed papers/books published.


Washington State University - Kenneth Kardong (http://sbs.wsu.edu/faculty/?faculty/17)

Amazon.com: Kenneth V. Kardong: Books (http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27%3AKenneth%20V.%20Kardong)

An Introduction to Biological Evolution: 9780073050775: Science & Mathematics Books @ Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Biological-Evolution-Kenneth-Kardong/dp/0073050776/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403096731&sr=8-1&keywords=Introduction+to+Biological+Evolution+%2F+ Edition+2)

That just goes to show that , just because you get your books or papers published and reviewed, your facts and info can still be wrong. People need to do their own research and check and prove their facts personally. How many times has science changed what it has said was a fact.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

If you read through his article he uses venom and venomous so he knows.he may have just used the words poison in there for the people that didn't know anything about herps so that they would understand. When you write an article you try to make it where everyone understands. All the old timers i know say poisonous snakes lol! Before herps gained so much in popularity alot of people called venomous snakes poisonous because they didn't know any better they just knew if you got bit you either got sick or died so they called them poisonous, lol! How can you say his article is wrong though based on that one statement?
that just goes to show that , just because you get your books or papers published and reviewed, your facts and info can still be wrong. People need to do their own research and check and prove their facts personally. How many times has science changed what it has said was a fact.

[guidofatherof5]

That just goes to show that , just because you get your books or papers published and reviewed, your facts and info can still be wrong. People need to do their own research and check and prove their facts personally. How many times has science changed what it has said was a fact.

I think you're correct, people make mistakes.
I know of a new field herping guide that was just published, it contains at least 1 error. It happens and body of this person's work clearly out shines this 1 error.
The body of Mr. Kardong's work(spanning 40 years) has benefited the reptile community far more then his choice to us the word "poisonous" in place of "venomous"

http://public.wsu.edu/~kkardong/Web%20of%20KVK_06b/index.htm

New Page 1(publication) (http://public.wsu.edu/~kkardong/Web%20of%20KVK_06b/Publications/References.htm)

[EasternGirl]

She is a beautiful snake. I would love to work with venomous snakes one day...when my son is older and out of the house. As some of you may know, I wrote a research paper on venom in medicine two years ago...it's on the forum somewhere. Would like to publish someday. The article will probably get a lot more attention in the medical community after I get my license...hope to educate more of the medical field on the benefits of venom in the treatment of disease.

[SSSSnakes]

I think you're correct, people make mistakes.
I know of a new field herping guide that was just published, it contains at least 1 error. It happens and body of this person's work clearly out shines this 1 error.
The body of Mr. Kardong's work(spanning 40 years) has benefited the reptile community far more then his choice to us the word "poisonous" in place of "venomous"

http://public.wsu.edu/~kkardong/Web%20of%20KVK_06b/index.htm

New Page 1(publication) (http://public.wsu.edu/~kkardong/Web%20of%20KVK_06b/Publications/References.htm)


I'm not saying that because he used the word poisonous instead of venomous he is totally wrong. But as I read the article I find him using words like "probably" and "I propose". These are words indicating he does not have facts to back up what he is proposing. I'm not looking to argue the point, but there is no real proven facts to back up any of this, only speculation.

[guidofatherof5]

Okay, I'm certainly not looking for an argument either.
The way I read your post I felt his reputation was in question and responded to that.
No disrespect intended. ;)

[SSSSnakes]

Okay, I'm certainly not looking for an argument either.
The way I read your post I felt his reputation was in question and responded to that.
No disrespect intended. ;)

As I have said before, no problem, all is good. It is nice o have a friendly debate without insults. This way everyone's points get made and maybe something positive comes out of it. We all need to look at every point with an open mind, but we don't always have to agree with it.

[Masticophis]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/buglight141/Picture1.jpg

Bot small to be tailing really, though it can be done. Cute little things though I prefer colubrids myself to hots.
Was it you handling or was you on the safer end taking photo?

[chris-uk]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/buglight141/Picture1.jpg

Interesting snake. Are those your fingers in the background? Do you have it out on the carpet very often? If you do you're a braver man than me...

Edit - Oops, I just replied to the first post in the thread without realising that someone else had already asked more or less the same as me.