Hets?

[BUSHSNAKE]

every year in the U.S. i see all these gartersnakes that are "hets", like right now you can find het erythristic, het peach flame snow, het erythristic flame snow and het erythristic snow..."genetics guaranteed" and its all bull. I really wonder if gartersnake breeders have forgotten what het even means cuz in the gartersnake community it doesnt mean anything...but if someone calls a gartersnake "northern garter" people are all over it or if someone brings up hybrids your all over it but no one ever says anything about hets that arent hets being sold as hets and it been happening every year for a while now. Its sad.
I apologize if this comes off rude but its something that needs to stop.Have a good day.
Joe

[guidofatherof5]

I consider myself genetically challenged(knowledge about genetics, don't start with the jokes:D) so I wonder if you would explain your point of view on the subject.

[snakeman]

I consider myself genetically challenged(knowledge about genetics, don't start with the jokes:D) so I wonder if you would explain your point of view on the subject.

I don't get it either.maybe they know something we don't.

[snakeman]

I don't know how that quote got in there.

[Thamnophis_Collector]

I don't get that either because if I'm not mistaken erythristic is co dom so how could there be hets, and what's peach flame? It's either flame or it's not. Now that I'm starting to learn more I'm staying away from shady breeders. Just because its a very well known breeder doesn't mean they won't try to make a quick buck on someone new to garters. And It's a shame because it may be one of the main reasons garters aren't as popular in the hobby.

[Jeff B]

I have found by experience that it is just a lot easier for most persons to understand that if the one parent is erythristic and the other parent is snow, the babies are hets for those traits, so that's what I use now. Using het erythristic snow isn't technically perfectly accurate, but I after tiring from explaining genetics to most of my potential customers and most do not care to understand anyway, I caved into using the more commonly used nomenclature. Surprisingly, most customers do not have self-granted honorary PhDs in genetics like Joe Peck and Tom Dickerson.

[snakeman]

But anybody with a brain would know they are not hets.I guess it's easy to take advantage in the garter hobby being most a new to snakes.along with not feeding babies selling them six months old having never eaten.

[reptileparadise]

It is the same with people claiming het. snow... No, het amelanistic and het anery / melanistic....

[Jeff B]

But anybody with a brain would know they are not hets.I guess it's easy to take advantage in the garter hobby being most a new to snakes.along with not feeding babies selling them six months old having never eaten.
Thanks for making my point exactly Tom, anyone with a brain can figure it out, especially if you do a little research of your own and you can see pictures of the parents. Technically Tom they are actually probably heterogygous for many different alleles, but anybody with a brain can figure that out and I'm sure you already knew that didn't you TOM, since you know exactly how the erythristic works at the molecular level, right TOM. A little bit of knowledge is dangerous. You are like a little kid who talks smack about grow up issues, you don't even know what you are babbling about.
I have never sold not feeders or "taken advantage of selling non feeders". I don't need to, I could care less about the money or the business of the hobby. My snakes are all feeding heavy on cut nightcrawlers and/or cut pinkies before they leave my house. What would you know, you know anyway, fact-you have never bought a single garter snake from me. Fact-I bought one snake from you years ago and you sold it as a male and it was actually a female. Fact- Joe Peck has never bought one single snake from me either EVER! I bought what he called a peach flame het snow female from him years ago and then he tells me on a public forum that his peach flame albino daughter isn't a flame, what a moron. You guys really need to look in the mirror.

Both Joe and Tom allegedly self-proclaimed that "they got out of garters" and have "moved on to better things" and yet they are still here trolling around like trolls do. "I apologize if this comes across as rude", but I think someone needs to explain to them what "getting out" and "moving on" really means.

[Jeff B]

It is the same with people claiming het. snow... No, het amelanistic and het anery / melanistic....

Semantics. There isn't science behind those terms, this is the snake hobby kid.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Instigator, lol!
every year in the u.s. I see all these gartersnakes that are "hets", like right now you can find het erythristic, het peach flame snow, het erythristic flame snow and het erythristic snow..."genetics guaranteed" and its all bull. I really wonder if gartersnake breeders have forgotten what het even means cuz in the gartersnake community it doesnt mean anything...but if someone calls a gartersnake "northern garter" people are all over it or if someone brings up hybrids your all over it but no one ever says anything about hets that arent hets being sold as hets and it been happening every year for a while now. Its sad.
I apologize if this comes off rude but its something that needs to stop.have a good day.
Joe

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I see what you're saying, but everybody in the whole reptile hobby knows that snow is a combo morph and uses het snow instead of saying het melanistic and het albino so when bred to together you will get albinos, melanistics/anery, snows, or normal possible hets. It just makes it alot shorter and easier, but it still isn't misleading though because when bred together you will get snows if the parents are het for both traits.
it is the same with people claiming het. Snow... No, het amelanistic and het anery / melanistic....

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I got a strange one for you. I had a little tan eastern that was born normal and was told it could color up a erythristic and that it was 100% het snow (aka dbl het melanistic and albino combo). It was the result of a ery/flame bred by a snow female. As he started to grow he began to color up and is now an ery/flame which i bred this year to 2 wc females and both litters had visual flames in them. I thought this was strange considering he was not born a visual flame at birth. This may change the way we look at flames because that means that some of the normals could color up to flames. Has anyone ever heard of this before?

[Jeff B]

I got a strange one for you. I had a little tan eastern that was born normal and was told it could color up a erythristic and that it was 100% het snow (aka dbl het melanistic and albino combo). It was the result of a ery/flame bred by a snow female. As he started to grow he began to color up and is now an ery/flame which i bred this year to 2 wc females and both litters had visual flames in them. I thought this was strange considering he was not born a visual flame at birth. This may change the way we look at flames because that means that some of the normals could color up to flames. Has anyone ever heard of this before?

Yes that is exactly how it works. Some color up over the first year or two more than others and some at different rates as well. We can't predict how that will pan out, dispite ridiculous claims that I have seen from both Joe and Tom that if it doesn't have color when its born it never will.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I always thought that flames had to be somewhat visual at birth so it threw me for a loop.
yes that is exactly how it works. Some color up over the first year or two more than others and some at different rates as well. We can't predict how that will pan out, dispite ridiculous claims that i have seen from both joe and tom that if it doesn't have color when its born it never will.

[snakeman]

Quit being butthurt and making stuff up.there is a reason we never bought anything from you.we know better.I still have three garters.co dominant and het are not the same thing.you know this.yet you still claim they are hets along with your shyster buddy.surprised you even commented without trying to sell something.the one thing I agreed with lingo about is you only show your face when you are trying to sell something.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I think the term peach flame is for lower end flames that have a peachy color down the side still flames just not as much color. Don't hold me to this though. That's just the way I understood it.
I don't get that either because if I'm not mistaken erythristic is co dom so how could there be hets, and what's peach flame? It's either flame or it's not. Now that I'm starting to learn more I'm staying away from shady breeders. Just because its a very well known breeder doesn't mean they won't try to make a quick buck on someone new to garters. And It's a shame because it may be one of the main reasons garters aren't as popular in the hobby.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I think the reason garters are not as popular in the hobby is because lots of people cringe when they see how small the babies are and don't like the idea of cutting up pinkies, fish, and worms to feed them. At least this is what I have been told at shows by lots of people. They admire how beautiful and active they are, but don't want to deal with the hassle of feeding them as babies. They want to throw a pinky in the cage and be done. I love working with garters, but this is what I was told by several different people at shows and on forums.
I don't get that either because if I'm not mistaken erythristic is co dom so how could there be hets, and what's peach flame? It's either flame or it's not. Now that I'm starting to learn more I'm staying away from shady breeders. Just because its a very well known breeder doesn't mean they won't try to make a quick buck on someone new to garters. And It's a shame because it may be one of the main reasons garters aren't as popular in the hobby.

[Thamnophis_Collector]

I got a strange one for you. I had a little tan eastern that was born normal and was told it could color up a erythristic and that it was 100% het snow (aka dbl het melanistic and albino combo). It was the result of a ery/flame bred by a snow female. As he started to grow he began to color up and is now an ery/flame which i bred this year to 2 wc females and both litters had visual flames in them. I thught this was strangeconsidering he was not born a visual flame at birth. This may change the way we look at flames becthat means that some of the normals could color up to flames. Has anyone ever heard of this before?

You may be on to something, but if i had a similar litter I would sell the ones with no red as normals 100% het snow and just let them know its from an ery/flame x snow breeding. Would definitely not call them erythristic or flame hets.

[Jeff B]

You may be on to something, but if i had a similar litter I would sell the ones with no red as normals 100% het snow and just let them know its from an ery/flame x snow breeding. Would definitely not call them erythristic or flame hets.

That is exactly how I have always sold them. Some will color up more than others though. I mean heck it's not like anybody makes money on garters. They sell so cheap it's sad for how much work it is.

[infernalis]

I have always been pleased with the hets I get. They always prove out when bred.

[Jeff B]

Quit being butthurt and making stuff up.there is a reason we never bought anything from you.we know better.I still have three garters.co dominant and het are not the same thing.you know this.yet you still claim they are hets along with your shyster buddy.surprised you even commented without trying to sell something.the one thing I agreed with lingo about is you only show your face when you are trying to sell something.

You can talk **** out your *** all your want Tom but it doesn't change anything. Your right im not on here all the time, wasting time with small talk and crap like this, it's generally not worth my time, because I actually have a life and am very busy. Taking advantage of people has never even been on my radar nor making money and getting rich with garters. I mean come on, you make it sound like I am a greedy corporate mongrel, lol and all I care about is making money and screwing people over is part of the equation. Most of my customers get free snakes with almost every order, and at the least I give big discounts to those who can't really afford what they want. I lost money for 5 years in a row as a legitimate business, and you accuse me of taking advantage of people or misrepresenting. That is so weak, just plain weak. I am not even a legal business anymore, likely all your bad mouthing trash didn't help sales anyway, nor does it do anything positive for the hobby. Erythristic and flames are not codominant and I have been trying to explain that for years, but you think everything is recessive or codominant like ball pythons and think it's that simple...well it's just not always that simple and actually incomplete dominance or polygenetic or both is more likely what is really going on.

[Jeff B]

Here is a erythristic albino het snow that I produced 2 years ago as a baby.
Joe Peck "That not a erythristic albino, that's just a plain albino"
Tom, "Your are trying to take advantage of new people and take their money"
Here is what that same exact snake looked like a year later. I would have never guessed that snake would color up like that.

[jwolfe152]

*So a "het."*may not really a het. by strict definition. This can be validated in the example of Dr.Phil Blais's selective line breeding of the flames, just as the*amount of red can be increased thru selective*line breedings, it will be diluted thru outcrossings.

From Garter Snake Morph (http://gartersnakemorph.com/Snake-Genetics.php)

i have read this a few times and understand very little but i know from reading that the terms used in the hobby are not 100% accurate by definition but are close enough (from what we know about the garter snake genes which apparently is not a while lot) and is used so not to make new words to confuse people. If I'm wrong with my interruption please correct me, as i have said it all confuses me lol

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Agreed!

You may be on to something, but if i had a similar litter I would sell the ones with no red as normals 100% het snow and just let them know its from an ery/flame x snow breeding. Would definitely not call them erythristic or flame hets.

[reptileparadise]

I see what you're saying, but everybody in the whole reptile hobby knows that snow is a combo morph and uses het snow instead of saying het melanistic and het albino so when bred to together you will get albinos, melanistics/anery, snows, or normal possible hets. It just makes it alot shorter and easier, but it still isn't misleading though because when bred together you will get snows if the parents are het for both traits.

You would suspect that, but people are selling animals as het albino 'trait 1', het albino 'trait 2', het anery, het snow 'trait one' and het snow 'trait 2'... They are making up extra hets to make things look more important.

I just wish everybody in the reptile hobby had a brain.........

[snakeman]

Here is a erythristic albino het snow that I produced 2 years ago as a baby.
Joe Peck "That not a erythristic albino, that's just a plain albino"
Tom, "Your are trying to take advantage of new people and take their money"
Here is what that same exact snake looked like a year later. I would have never guessed that snake would color up like that.
Nobody is arguing this.everybody knows they color up.but if a baby from the litter reaches adulthood with no color, it certainly shouldn't be sold as a "het erythristic"

[snakeman]

Definitely not as smart as you look.

[Stefan-A]

Any chance that I could convince you people to calm your tits a little?

[Jeff B]

Nobody is arguing this.everybody knows they color up.but if a baby from the litter reaches adulthood with no color, it certainly shouldn't be sold as a "het erythristic"
who is selling a het erythristic adult?

[Jeff B]

You would suspect that, but people are selling animals as het albino 'trait 1', het albino 'trait 2', het anery, het snow 'trait one' and het snow 'trait 2'... They are making up extra hets to make things look more important.

I just wish everybody in the reptile hobby had a brain.........

to say that babies from this breeding are normals (so as to avoid "making them look more important") makes more sense to you????? seriously???? you don't think there is importance there???? what a joke

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Could the trait 1 and trait 2 be meaning 2 different strains for example schuett albino and florida albino or west virginia anery or mohr anery. Because if it's different strains i would want them labeled as different traits so you know which line you're working with and most them are not compatible with each other anyway for example if i breed a fl albino x a schuett albino i would get normal babies 100% het for both traits.
you would suspect that, but people are selling animals as het albino 'trait 1', het albino 'trait 2', het anery, het snow 'trait one' and het snow 'trait 2'... They are making up extra hets to make things look more important.

I just wish everybody in the reptile hobby had a brain.........

[snakeman]

Any chance that I could convince you people to calm your tits a little?

What do you mean by "you people"lol

[snakeman]

On another note my yellow albino gave birth to 55 babies.they are albino het erythristic,het hypo,het pied,and het jesus.

[Jeff B]

What do you mean by "you people"lol
Now that's some funny **** right there.