View Full Version : !!garters illegal in Ontario!!
Pinky
07-15-2007, 09:14 AM
:mad: I just found out some pretty scary news from a local pet shop owner...It is now ILLEGAL to keep or collect any native snake species in Ontario!This of course includes Garters!!!A man was recently given the option of a $50 000 fine OR three years in jail!You may how ever obtain a permit from the Government which took the shop keeper a couple of years to get!So all you Ontario res. with garters...HIDE!!!
adamanteus
07-15-2007, 09:18 AM
That's just what the world needs...another silly rule!:rolleyes:
garterman07
07-15-2007, 10:37 AM
i hope your going to be alright with that law, that sounds just wretched. i just recently found out about a bad one my self, aparently i can't sell or purchase any tss or tr in wisconsin, because its native...that also includes any sub. i hope you can manage mate.
Morph
07-15-2007, 10:42 AM
surely animals captive before the release of this law are legal. and its not your fault if they breed ;)
i hope your going to be alright with that law, that sounds just wretched. i just recently found out about a bad one my self, aparently i can't sell or purchase any tss or tr in wisconsin, because its native...that also includes any sub. i hope you can manage mate.
My neighbor state, Georgia, has the same law. You can't buy, sell or keep any snake native to the state.
Sid
That sucks. I hope they dont do that to pa cause i love easterns.
adamanteus
07-15-2007, 03:13 PM
My neighbor state, Georgia, has the same law. You can't buy, sell or keep any snake native to the state.
Sid
How do they police these laws? They can't really go door to door looking for them!:confused:
How do they police these laws? They can't really go door to door looking for them!:confused:
Really?????
Do they have a snake census?lol
Pinky
07-15-2007, 03:19 PM
How do they police these laws? They can't really go door to door looking for them!:confused:
No but there r alot of trouble makers with big mouths!!!all it takes is for them to get wind of it and that's it!!espesially in my town...gossip is a trade for some people!lol:mad:
adamanteus
07-15-2007, 03:20 PM
No but there r alot of trouble makers with big mouths!!!all it takes is for them to get wind of it and that's it!!espesially in my town...gossip is a trade for some people!lol:mad:
Ahh, that's so true!
Elliot
07-15-2007, 03:23 PM
They can also police by doing what they're doing already, make it illegal for them to be sold to that area. I don't think they would find out if you had one unless someone gossiped like you said.
Yea it makes more sense then a snake census lol
How do they police these laws? They can't really go door to door looking for them!:confused:
Tips from individuals and DNR officers in the field mainly. So, don't get caught there with a snake hook, only be seen with your camera on field trips.
Sid
This kinda stuff is nonsense.Next we cant eat the fruits native to there!!
ssssnakeluvr
07-15-2007, 06:13 PM
shhhhh!!! someone might hear you!!!!
Pinky
07-15-2007, 07:30 PM
Not too hard for me to bite my tounge it's my kids I worry about telling the worng set of ears!LOL
GarterGuy
07-16-2007, 09:46 AM
That sucks. I hope they dont do that to pa cause i love easterns.
Ummmm...hate to break it to you, but they have. You can only posess or collect a single individual speices of native PA herp that's not a species of interest, threatened or endangered. You can get permits for I think about $20 per snake this year yet to "grandfather" any snakes you already have, but the collection of any more would be considered illegal. If any one in PA is interested, I have copies of the current herp laws (as of Jan. 2007) for the state. They do make allowances for colour variants that occur outside the state, like melanistics, flames and Fla. blues and also don't count "specialty" morphs like albinos and such. (Had to fight to get that put into the laws!!!)
Roy
Serpentine99
07-16-2007, 12:31 PM
I for one think that the state governments have gotten so bad that they can make any law they want and not even ask the public how we feel about it. I bet they didn't ask one owner of a native animal before they made some of these laws. You want to save snakes, why don't try to prevent people from spreading myths about snakes so they won't kill them.
I went to the city the other day where my dad's the landlord of a house. I went to go see what some kid's where looking at and they had killed a black garter with orange stripes. Unbelievable coloration, and they killed it. I tried to keep calm and ask them why they did it, and they're response was they thought it was a copperhead. :mad:
Why don't the incorporate native animals into the school curriculum? Oh wait forgot, Federal government says we have to study for standardized testing, don't even get me started on them.
GarterGuy
07-16-2007, 11:12 PM
Luckily in PA, there were a lot of us hobbyist who got to put in something for the new laws that came out. It was kind of funny, but they stated that they had no idea that the herp keeping communitiy was so large or how the laws they were going to be passing would affect them. For what they are, they're in place to help protect the native species from exploitation. It does suck a bit, but at the same time, I'd rather be able to go out and see stuff in the wild then only be able to see it in a tank. With the allowances that were made, people are still able to keep they're animals and get more....just with a few exceptions.
Roy
Ummmm...hate to break it to you, but they have. You can only posess or collect a single individual speices of native PA herp that's not a species of interest, threatened or endangered. You can get permits for I think about $20 per snake this year yet to "grandfather" any snakes you already have, but the collection of any more would be considered illegal. If any one in PA is interested, I have copies of the current herp laws (as of Jan. 2007) for the state. They do make allowances for colour variants that occur outside the state, like melanistics, flames and Fla. blues and also don't count "specialty" morphs like albinos and such. (Had to fight to get that put into the laws!!!)
Roy
So for me to have an eastern is illegal?????
and yes im interested in the herp laws!
GarterGirl
07-17-2007, 04:12 PM
ILLEGAL TO KEEP A GARTER?
THAT'S CRAZY!
THEY'RE HARMLESS!
THAT'S THE WORST LAW I HAVE EVER HEARD OF!
Good thing they don't have that law here!
phew
Lulu Bennett
07-17-2007, 05:52 PM
ILLEGAL TO KEEP A GARTER?
THAT'S CRAZY!
THEY'RE HARMLESS!
THAT'S THE WORST LAW I HAVE EVER HEARD OF!
Good thing they don't have that law here!
phew
mikhaila i think its more to protect them from being taken out of the wild in large numbers leaving the wild population crippled and then the best chance of seeing the native species is in tanks... i think its a good idea to be honest. i personlly dont agree with WC snakes being kept as pets. they have freedon and space. im not having a dig at thoes that do thats your porogative, its just my opinion.
O w/c snakes only o ok thats good by me.
GarterGuy
07-17-2007, 11:57 PM
So for me to have an eastern is illegal?????
and yes im interested in the herp laws!
No, it's not illegal. You can have ONE native herp that's not on the special interest list.....you just can't have two.....that were wild caught. You can have as many as you want that are captive bred, but you need to have documentation stating that they are captive bred snakes. I'll be posting the herp laws for PA on here soon. It's several pages long and I'm trying to filter out the stuff that doesn't deal with snakes (ie. snapping turtles and such).
Roy
thanks i get it now. Ill be looking for it.
drache
07-18-2007, 06:52 AM
I've had wild caught snakes and I have some now
most of them adjust over time, but some I end up forever feeling sorry for
I don't think it's a good idea to take them from the wild and I think it'd be great if just enough were taken to develop strong captive bred populations
perhaps snakes in the future could come with breeder papers just like pure-bred dogs, cats and horses - not so much for the "class" factor as is common with those species, but so that we can keep protected species as long as we can document that they were CB
enigma200316
07-18-2007, 07:15 AM
All Snakes Were Wild At One Time Or There Would Be No Captive Snakes!!! So In Some Way Everyone Who Has A Herp Has In Some Way, Be It Wild Caught Now Or Threw Decendent Lines Has A Wild Caught Snake............
drache
07-18-2007, 07:34 AM
All Snakes Were Wild At One Time Or There Would Be No Captive Snakes!!! So In Some Way Everyone Who Has A Herp Has In Some Way, Be It Wild Caught Now Or Threw Decendent Lines Has A Wild Caught Snake............
that is true
we were all wild at one time
many habitats used to be intact and undisturbed at one time
at one time it never occurred to folks to catch large amounts of snakes in the wild and sell them for five bucks a piece at their local expo, because it's an easy way to make a buck
times have changed
as much as I don't like the laws, I even less like the people who made it necessary to pass laws like that
KITKAT
07-18-2007, 09:45 AM
that is true
we were all wild at one time
many habitats used to be intact and undisturbed at one time
at one time it never occurred to folks to catch large amounts of snakes in the wild and sell them for five bucks a piece at their local expo, because it's an easy way to make a buck
times have changed
as much as I don't like the laws, I even less like the people who made it necessary to pass laws like that
Dogs and cats were wild animals once too. Just because it was 2000 + years ago does not mean they weren't.:rolleyes: So following this logic, ALL animals are wild, and are not domesticated. :eek: LOL!
enigma200316
07-18-2007, 11:06 AM
My opinion was simply to say that it is wrong to say I dislike people catching wild snakes because thats how you got your CB snakes, so in saying that, we are all guilty of having wild caught snakes....in some way or another!!!!!!
Stefan-A
07-18-2007, 12:05 PM
My opinion is that it's ok as long as it doesn't do any serious damage to the population.
drache
07-18-2007, 12:46 PM
My opinion was simply to say that it is wrong to say I dislike people catching wild snakes because thats how you got your CB snakes, so in saying that, we are all guilty of having wild caught snakes....in some way or another!!!!!!
I just feel that it's a matter of degree
I blame the small number of people who have no sense for the fact that there seems to be a need for restrictive laws
yet in light of the fact that there is something worth protecting . . .
I like to support captive breeding and the people who practice it
I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a snake to keep as a pet or breeder, but I am a bit put off by - say - the people who take a lot of them from the wild, don't treat them well, and then sell them cheaply
when there are no laws, it becomes difficult to do anything about those people
KITKAT
07-18-2007, 12:47 PM
My opinion was simply to say that it is wrong to say I dislike people catching wild snakes because thats how you got your CB snakes, so in saying that, we are all guilty of having wild caught snakes....in some way or another!!!!!!
I understood, but had to be difficult!:p
enigma200316
07-18-2007, 12:53 PM
I to wouldn't be in favor of those who keep taking theme....it should be easy enough to take a couple and breed from there and sell or what ever,
after all that shouldn't hurt unless don't take care of them and keep doing it.....
Lulu Bennett
07-18-2007, 12:54 PM
Today 06:06 PMenigma200316 My opinion was simply to say that it is wrong to say I dislike people catching wild snakes because thats how you got your CB snakes, so in saying that, we are all guilty of having wild caught snakes....in some way or another!!!!!!
if that is a snide did at me i said i personally couldn't give a t*** if you or anyone else wanted to keep WC snakes but i wouldn't keep then because all their life they have had the fredom to wander and then get shoved into a tank nowhere near the size of the area they have been used to. if you buy a baby from someone then from them being born then all they have known is the small box that the pet store keeps them in. i think if you want to keep a native species then you should get papers with the snake saying that they are CB like Rhea said and not WC. thats where the laws should come into place. i think you should beable to keep native species as long as you have the papers saying its CB. As i said before that is my OPINION! i have not said it to cause offence.
im not having a dig at thoes that do thats your porogative, its just my opinion.
im not against catching wild snakes but only if you
1. have the space.
2. have the knowledge.
3. no more than two.
Those are just my beleifs not saying its right.
enigma200316
07-18-2007, 01:01 PM
no, no not at you, just in general of my opinion....
sorry if you took it that way.......truely!!!
adamanteus
07-18-2007, 01:07 PM
It's quite an emotive subject, I guess. In my humble opinion an individual collecting a few specimens for their own personal reasons isn't go to make an impact on the wild population. Commercial collection however, particularly at crucial times of the year, such as emergence from hibernation, could devastate a population. That said, if there were no commercial collecting of reptiles, we in the UK would be asking "What's a Garter Snake"?:rolleyes:
GarterGuy
07-19-2007, 01:04 AM
if that is a snide did at me i said i personally couldn't give a t*** if you or anyone else wanted to keep WC snakes but i wouldn't keep then because all their life they have had the fredom to wander and then get shoved into a tank nowhere near the size of the area they have been used to. if you buy a baby from someone then from them being born then all they have known is the small box that the pet store keeps them in. i think if you want to keep a native species then you should get papers with the snake saying that they are CB like Rhea said and not WC. thats where the laws should come into place. i think you should beable to keep native species as long as you have the papers saying its CB. As i said before that is my OPINION! i have not said it to cause offence.
Have to agree, but the problem is with the documentation of the animals. That's why us in the US can't keep SanFran garters. It's been decided that there's no way to tell the difference between wildcaught and captive produced snakes. Also it's easier and "cheaper" to just say "NO" rather then trying to set up some sort of certification program. I'd definitely pay what ever fees or pay to have my animals pit tagged to be able to work with T.s.tertrataenia.
Roy
Lulu Bennett
07-19-2007, 08:19 AM
no, no not at you, just in general of my opinion....
sorry if you took it that way.......truely!!!
sorry i was having a bad day and was very emotional:( truely sorry xxx friends :D
enigma200316
07-19-2007, 11:05 AM
YES...friends!!!.....I value every ones opinion, and advice, and I also hope every one will value mine!!!!!! I love this site and would never do anything,
to intesionaly hurt any ones feeling.....
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