State reptile regualtions question

[Blackavar15]

I sell my captive bred T. s. similis at some of the reptile shows here in Michigan and every time, without fail, someone will come up to me and warn me about DNR C.O.s wandering around the show. I actually work for the DNR during the summer break and am very familiar with all of the rules and regulations regarding the possession and sale of MI herps. Since I'm selling a non-native subspecies I don't think I will ever have a problem, but there's always a little niggling sense of doubt in the back of my mind. My blues always produce a few normal looking green babies and I can see how they could be confused for our native subspecies.

My question is has anyone every had any problems with their local wildlife officials while selling snakes? If you did, what happened and how did you solve the issue?

[d_virginiana]

Maybe find a defining characteristic (like scale counts or something) that would prove your species is non-native, and be ready to point that out to them if they ask you to prove it. It'd probably be good to have a copy of the paper describing the species, which usually has a key, in case you run into a jerk who really wants proof they are what you say they are.

[guidofatherof5]

Good advice, Lora.

[Blackavar15]

My problem is that T. s. similis and T. s. sirtalis are basically identical apart from the coloration, which is highly variable for both species. I've requested a receipt from the breeder, so hopefully that will save me trouble.

[guidofatherof5]

My problem is that T. s. similis and T. s. sirtalis are basically identical apart from the coloration, which is highly variable for both species. I've requested a receipt from the breeder, so hopefully that will save me trouble.

Good idea.

[ConcinusMan]

My blues always produce a few normal looking green babies and I can see how they could be confused for our native subspecies.

Which is why shows here in WA don't allow T. sirtalis at all. Unless it's really obvious it's not native or if it's a CB morph such as flame, albino checkered, snow, mexican species, etc. you're not getting in with it.

This is something you're going to have to contact your state wildlife law enforcement about and have them chime in on your specific situation. Some states do not recognize subspecies at all and so any subspecies of T. sirtalis is considered native. Other states make exceptions for CB morphs. Some states have other laws that apply specifically to shows/vendors. Laws regarding captive breeding and selling might be different than simple posession, collecting, or keeping. I would ask them directly and explain the situation.

[ConcinusMan]

Maybe find a defining characteristic (like scale counts or something) that would prove your species is non-native, and be ready to point that out to them if they ask you to prove it.

That wouldn't prove anything. Scales on his non-native sirtalis is going to be the same as any other subspecies. It's the scale configuration that makes them classified as T. sirtalis in the first place. All 13 subspecies have the same scale counts and configuration, regardless of where they occur.

Scales on a concinnus are exactly the same as they are on an eastern or a similis. That's what makes them all a T. sirtalis. Scale counts/configuration is only useful as a field I.D. tool. It can be used for example to find out if you have a T. elegans or a T. sirtalis in places where they both occur.