Brumation 2013

[gregmonsta]

Well, last weekend marked the start of brumation for my posse. It's going to be a sad state of affairs in my living room for a couple of months with the majority of my collection headed for the deep sleep. I thought I'd give a quick rundown of this years process as I've tried different things over the years.

The snakes had been denied food for 2 weeks and I dropped theiir basking temps from 30C to 19C over the course of a week and a half.

Recently, I switched all of my main enclosures to cocopeat as a substrate. It took a little while to get the water/peat ratio right but I started thinking that this soil mix might make a good brumation medium. I tubbed this with a drier layer on top and provided a large hide and waterbowl for each of the groups.

Tubs ready and waiting

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//839/medium/hib1.JPG

Each snake was weight checked and the females got a good once over to make sure that they were empty/not trying to double clutch/etc.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//839/medium/hib3.JPG

Snake groupings:
Parietalis and radix females
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//839/medium/hib2.JPG

Parietalis boys
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//839/medium/hib7.JPG

Radix boys
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//839/medium/hib8.JPG

[gregmonsta]

Infernalis, marcianus and 'Florida blue' sirtalis girls
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//839/medium/hib6.JPG

Infernalis, marcianus and 'Florida blue' sirtalis boys
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//839/medium/hib9.JPG

Beena trying to escape!
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//839/medium/hib5.JPG

Marina attempting some form of sign language
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//839/medium/hib4.JPG

Off to the kitchen cupboard we go ...
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//839/medium/hib10.JPG

Temps started at 15.6C on the first day (with the door having been open). This dropped to 14.3, 13.7, 12.4 on each successive day after. Temps have remained steady at 12.4C since.

Based on previous years I expect this to drop below 10C around the beginning of December and plan to bring the marcianus and 'Florida blue' sirtalis back out by mid-month. The others will remain with the temps not expected to drop much below 6C at its coldest. Wakey time for these will be mid-Jan. and the warm-up process will be the reverse of the cool down.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice family photos.;)

[SD Reptiles]

Nice collection ;-)

ps : just saw that we have eachother on facebook :-)

[CrazyHedgehog]

I have bought some cooling stats this year with fans for brumation. Gonna leave them in the tanks in the house, but use curtains and and the stats with cooling if it gets to warm in the house.

[gregmonsta]

I have bought some cooling stats this year with fans for brumation. Gonna leave them in the tanks in the house, but use curtains and and the stats with cooling if it gets to warm in the house.

This sounds intriguing. How will this work? Will they be in a separate room or will they remain in a living space? Also, are the fans just shifting air or is there a cooling element attached? I ask because I'm not sure a fans on their own in a room with a high ambient temperature throughout would be enough. They would simply be moving air as opposed to cooling if the ambient temperature in the room as a whole is the same.

[CrazyHedgehog]

Yes they are gonna be in the front room, but we are going to set the fans up on the vents on the cool side, this is right by the window, (no posh double glazing and its pretty cool this side of the room, even when the heating is on!) and behind the tank on the outside wall for the other ones. we have cooled over winter before in this room (lights and heating off, and tank glass covered) and they tend to go off food, but it probably hasn't been cool enough for a proper brumation. Hoping this should just be enough to lower to better temps.

The cooling stats work as normal stats, but the other way round, if the temps hit a certain temp the fans come on to cool slightly. We are going to give it a go, if the fans do just move the air rather than cool, we can easily pipe to below the floor boards (where it is definitely a lot cooler).

Its funny though, we stood at the stall discussing exactly your thoughts. When we cool, its not far off the temp, just worry it fluctuates a little too much, so hoping this will help stabilise the temps better. It can't be any worse than without, but I will keep you posted as to whether it works or if we totally wasted our money!:o

[gregmonsta]

Fingers crossed with that project ;). Piping leading to a coolspot would've been my suggestion.

[gregmonsta]

First check-in at the weekend. Temp still stable at 12.3C. Snakes doing fine. Parietalis and radix are displaying a preference for submerging themselves in the waterbowl. Marcianus and sirtalis are favouring the 'dig deep' method.

[guidofatherof5]

Love the updates, keep them coming.

[chris-uk]

Thought I'd share my brumation plans (you didn't intend this thread to just cover your brumation did you Greg?).

The only place I've got that will get cold enough consistently is going to be the garage. So I'm going to have the problem of ensuring that temps don't drop too low through the winter as the garage is detached and pretty much follows the outside temps.
Last winter we had our washing machine in an outhouse and I used a tubular heater on a thermostat to keep the temps up around 5C, according the the max/min thermometer I had sat on top of the washing machine it did a good job. However, heating a privy-sized outhouse is not the same as heating a double garage, so I'll be assembling a "brumation chamber" in the garage. I've got several sheets of Celotex insulation boards which I'll put together as a box, the tubular heater will go along the back wall with it's thermostat at the level of the lowest brumation box.
I've also got a weather station with an external temp/humidity sensor and max/min alarms, so that will be used to monitor the temp in the brumation box and give me reassurance that the heater is working. I'm also toying with putting my webcam in there as well purely so that I can check temperature on the thermostat and weather station sensor remotely.
I'll be getting all this setup over the weekend. We've got lows of 3C and highs of 8C forecast, so I'll monitor the max/min for the first couple of nights before introducing the first snakes.

The snakes that will be out in the garage will the the ones that need a longer, colder brumation - parietalis, marcianus, cyrtopsis, radix. The Cuitzeos will stay in the their vivs with the heat turned off, as will the infernalis and tetrataenia - daytime temps will max at 21C and night will drop to mid-teens celsius. My two babies (radix and infernalis) won't be brumating.

[gregmonsta]

Thought I'd share my brumation plans (you didn't intend this thread to just cover your brumation did you Greg?).

No worries there ;) my main motivation for starting this thread was the beginnings of the usual newcomer questions on brumation and the process involved. Probably a good idea to have multiple people contribute in between my weekly updates.

The only place I've got that will get cold enough consistently is going to be the garage. So I'm going to have the problem of ensuring that temps don't drop too low through the winter as the garage is detached and pretty much follows the outside temps.
Last winter we had our washing machine in an outhouse and I used a tubular heater on a thermostat to keep the temps up around 5C, according the the max/min thermometer I had sat on top of the washing machine it did a good job. However, heating a privy-sized outhouse is not the same as heating a double garage, so I'll be assembling a "brumation chamber" in the garage. I've got several sheets of Celotex insulation boards which I'll put together as a box, the tubular heater will go along the back wall with it's thermostat at the level of the lowest brumation box.
I've also got a weather station with an external temp/humidity sensor and max/min alarms, so that will be used to monitor the temp in the brumation box and give me reassurance that the heater is working. I'm also toying with putting my webcam in there as well purely so that I can check temperature on the thermostat and weather station sensor remotely.
I'll be getting all this setup over the weekend. We've got lows of 3C and highs of 8C forecast, so I'll monitor the max/min for the first couple of nights before introducing the first snakes.

The snakes that will be out in the garage will the the ones that need a longer, colder brumation - parietalis, marcianus, cyrtopsis, radix. The Cuitzeos will stay in the their vivs with the heat turned off, as will the infernalis and tetrataenia - daytime temps will max at 21C and night will drop to mid-teens celsius. My two babies (radix and infernalis) won't be brumating.

The only thing I would question is the longer, colder brumation for marcianus after reading a paper that indicated possible neurological issues setting in at temps of 6C and lower in this species. This the main reason for my choosing a shorter brumation at the start of the season when temps in the cupboard remained within their comfort zone. In the past I've simply treated them much as you are planning with your Cuitzeos.

[chris-uk]

The only thing I would question is the longer, colder brumation for marcianus after reading a paper that indicated possible neurological issues setting in at temps of 6C and lower in this species. This the main reason for my choosing a shorter brumation at the start of the season when temps in the cupboard remained within their comfort zone. In the past I've simply treated them much as you are planning with your Cuitzeos.

Sorry, forgot to mention that the tubular heater that I used to keep the washing machine at 5C last year will be used to maintain the brumation chamber at 8C. So although the outside temp will drop lower the snakes should never go below 8C.
I'll monitor this weekend when temps should drop lower and check that the heater is doing its job.

[chris-uk]

Couple of photos of my brumation setup in the garage. The issue I have is that ambient temps will drop too low out there and nowhere in the house gets cold enough.

The "box" is made from Celotex sheets. The tubular heater is one I used last winter to stop the washing machine freezing in an outhouse, it's hooked up to the thermostat on the shelf on the right.
On the shelf you can also see an external weather station sensor which sends temp and humidity to the station in my living room (which also has min/max alarms).

I'll be brumating between 6 and 10 snakes in there. Currently unoccupied while I monitor temps for a few days and nights.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/IMG_20131116_165931.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12151&title=chris-27-brumation-chamber&cat=734)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/IMG_20131116_165735.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12150&title=chris-27-brumation-chamber&cat=734)

[gregmonsta]

Looking good Chris ;).

Just checked on my lot again. Same behaviours observed. Both radix and parietalis boys are obsessed with the waterbowl. Sirtalis and marcianus predominantly burying.

[chris-uk]

My brumation chamber is holding temps reasonably steady since Saturday.
Temps in Coventry were 10-12C on Saturday and the chamber got up to around 11C, they dropped to 1C last night and the chamber held out at between 7C and 9.3C. My thinking is that the lower temps are what will kill my snakes so I'm going to see how it gets on tonight when temps are forecast to dip below freezing, but I may wind the thermostat up half a degree to keep the temperature closer to 8C than 7C. I'm not what the hysteresis is on the thermostat, but when the temp is below the 8C it's set at the temp is maintained to within a degree either side of the target.

There may also be a case for increasing the insulation. At the moment the box is deliberately not hermetically sealed so there's some airflow through some cracks. For peace of mind I'll probably fill those cracks, the total internal air volume is around 0.3 cubic metres which should be plenty for half a dozen brumating garters.

[chris-uk]

Cold night last night, the bird bath in the garden is frozen but the thermometer outside the window reckons it stayed just above freezing.

I've had 4 snakes in the brumation chamber since Sunday, and I tweaked the thermostat to raise the temp to around 10C for the first few days. So far the low has been 9.4C and the high 11.3C with it tending to be around 10C when I check. I'll drop the temp a couple of degrees sometime over the next couple of days, although when I was testing for the week I found I had more fluctuation (+/- 2C, rather than +/- 1C that I'm currently seeing) at the lower temperature, must just be how the thermostat kicks in. But the temperature I'm monitoring remotely is the air temp in the chamber, I'd expect the water and substrate temps in the boxes to be more steady.

So far I'm happy that my setup is holding a reasonable temperature.

[gregmonsta]

I was doing my checks on Sunday. Forgot to update (slaps self on wrists).

My temps have dropped to 11C, comparable to last year's temps and speed of the temp drop. A lot of burrowing, with only parietalis, infernalis, and radix occasionally seen in the 'open'.

[chris-uk]

Here's something I was wondering - when you check up on brumating snakes, do you just peer in the box and top up water if they need a top up. Or do you actually get them out and check that they are still alive and tongue flicking? I'm figuring that I'll check once a week.

I had a quick check on mine last night, more to check that the max/min thermometer in the box correlated to the max/min in the remote thermometer. But the radix was out and flicking his tongue at me, the checkereds were both in the water bowl and not moving, and the blackneck was mostly burrowed. I'd have no idea if the blackneck was alive or dead unless I dug her out.

[gregmonsta]

I tend to prod the ones I see for a response. I've stuck to not digging so far. If I haven't seen a snake for a couple of weeks I might think to investigate.

[chris-uk]

I tend to prod the ones I see for a response. I've stuck to not digging so far. If I haven't seen a snake for a couple of weeks I might think to investigate.

Sounds like a sensible approach.

[gregmonsta]

Well, in the milder weather the last few days temps are back above 12C. All snakes spotted and doing fine :D

[chris-uk]

One comes in from the cold.

Lipwig, my male radix, has been out in the brumation box for two months and yesterday I brought him back into the house. I've moved him into a clean, dry box but am keeping him at room temperature for a few days. Later in the week I'll put him back in the viv with Vlad and Twoflower (who haven't brumated, just had two weeks at room temperature over the holidays).

Lipwig has lost a few grams over the last coicouple of months - 71g to 67g. He had stopped eating for six weeks before he started brumation, so had lost a little weight before he went in as well, hopefully he's going to have a nice appetite when he smells food at the weekend.

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[guidofatherof5]

A male garter coming out of brumation, Food won't be at the top of his list :D

[chris-uk]

A male garter coming out of brumation, Food won't be at the top of his list :D

He's been prowling. But he's not getting any - Adora has thrown regular jellies since I've had her, and Iodine is too young still (she's one of Greg's from last year, so looking at 2016 for her).