New Male Albino T. marcianus

[bigsnakegirl78]

I got a male albino checkered garter snake last Wednesday, and I had some questions that were mostly related to feeding when I first joined. Luckily, he ate for me today (a feeder fish), so this is mostly just to introduce him. Hopefully he will continue eating for me now that he's started, but I'll come here with any questions if they arise. I also just wanted to double-check my husbandry. Right now he's being kept at an ambient air temperature of 75F and a hot spot of 80F during the day, which is achieved with an overhead bulb. At night the light is turned off and the temp drops to 70F. Is 70F at night fine, or should I bring it up to 75F? If I do need to, will I be able to use a red night bulb? I'm asking because I had some problems when I used red bulbs with my boa constrictor, and I wanted to make sure it wouldn't happen with him. He's on paper towels in a 5 gal tank surrounded with printer paper for security, and I've got some box-shaped hides (which I'll most likely cut into flat pieces as they're rather large for him) and broken-up styrofoam pieces for hides, covering roughly half of the floor space. I've replaced his water bowl with a small plastic lid for water and food, and water is replaced daily.

Here are some photos of him. The first is when I put him into his tank, the second one is right after I got him out of his packaging, the third is a side view after his meal today, and the fourth one is a top view. (The date on the second one is wrong, unless of course, you live in a Spanish country.)
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[guidofatherof5]

Good looking little scrub.
I would think warmer on the hot side would be better 85°-87° Remember variety in food is best. What kind of feeder fish are you using?
Is/was that dark area near the tail just passing food? I notice it in a couple of photos.
Why did you replace a bowl with a lid? A larger swimming area is best.
Here's a link to the care sheet.
Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

[bigsnakegirl78]

Ok, I'll adjust his temps accordingly. Should I also do that at night, or is my temp drop fine? I assume it was the meal the breeders gave him before they shipped him as he had it when I got him out of the box. He hasn't passed it yet, but he's pooped a few times. I'm not sure what species the feeder fish were, they were just labeled "feeder fish," so if he doesn't end up taking the worms I'll look around for different fish to be safe. I know there are guppies and minnows, but they all appeared too big for him, which was why I got these. They were the smallest I found, and it still left a pretty good bulge. The next fish will either be another smaller fish if I can find them, frozen fish from the pet store, or I'll look at some markets around here for fresh fish fillets. But, I'll be attempting to give him fish-scented worms first. I replaced the bowl with a lid because he seemed to be having trouble getting into the bowl, and I didn't have anything shorter other than lids.

[guidofatherof5]

My snakes get heat 24/7. With cold and warm hides I let them decide what they want.
I'm not try to cause alarm but that area should have passed before the meals you gave. Any chance you can post a recent photo of the tail area?
He's a marcianus so taking work shouldn't be a problem. Be sure the read the care sheet section of fish so that you purchase the right food.
Here's a video that might help you get the little one eating worms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O36FMumumg

[chris-uk]

The dark area Steve mentioned has a definite bulge, I've never seen anything like that in my albino marcianus. Definitely keep an eye on it, if it's food it should be moving.

A night temp drop won't cause problems for a marcianus, many of them are found at altitudes where the temperature drops quite low at night. My garters all get their temp drop to ambient room temperature at night, in winter last year that was dropping to mid-teens Celsius. Although my baby snakes got a night drop to 20C. I use heatmats so maintaining a night temp doesn't cause me concerns with light.

He shouldn't need live feeder fish, frozen/thawed fish and pinkies (cut to appropriate size) should be fine, and marcianus aren't renowned for being fussy (all of my checkereds will eat whatever I offer them without any scenting). Feeder fish are usually kept in really poor conditions which I'm sure can't be best for the animals they are fed to.

I like checkereds, they are nice to look at, generally have a nice temperament (I have a couple of exceptions to that), and aren't fussy eaters.

[bigsnakegirl78]

He passed that lump yesterday. My mother cleaned out his cage while I was at school, so I'm not sure what it looked like. But, here's some photos of him from today. That poop in the corner is from the fish I fed him him a few days ago. Should I try to feed him worms again, or wait a few more days? He still has some fish left in his belly, but the bulge is gone. I've read that they take 5-8 days on fish, but he's already pretty much passed the one I gave him.
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Also, I swear he already looks slightly bigger, but I could just be imagining things. It's hard to tell when I can't measure him.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks normal now. Good looking little scrub.

[bigsnakegirl78]

Thanks. I think he's quite the looker, too. :D

Funnily, he's the first albino animal I've seen in person. And I get him all to myself. lol Right now he only comes out and explores if I have the front covered as well, but I'm giving him a little bit of increasing exposure to me every day. Maybe in a few weeks I won't need to cover the tank for him to be out and about. I've handled him a few times: when I fed him a few days ago and today. At first he took every chance to launch himself out of my hands and into the air. Today's handling had him trying to crawl rapidly out of my hand, but not jumping. I didn't handle him for long, just for a minute or two, until he calmed down slightly. I'll be keeping handling to a minimum from now on, until I've had him for another week at least. When he's being braver, he gets quite excited over seeing me and will follow me as I move around. It's quite amusing. :D

[ConcinusMan]

Some albinos are photophobic (they hate bright light because it's uncomfortable due to eye problems associated with amelanism) so it might be a good idea to avoid lights altogether and use ceramic heat emitters / infrared bulbs and/or undertank heater. In any case, do not expose them to UV / direct sunlight.

65-70 F at night is recommended. During the day, 70-75 F air temperature on the cool end of the enclosure is perfect but on the other end, the snake needs to have a warmer spot and the opportunity to warm up to 88-90 F. Day should be 14-16 hours and I recommend putting this on a timer. Same time off, and on, each day. Many albinos come out after dark. Using a red bulb at night allows you to watch nigh time activity, but most reptiles including snakes can't see red light so to them it's dark.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/husbandry/9830d1381891168-new-male-albino-t-marcianus-img_0635.jpg

Something isn't right. Shouldn't have a dark lump that close to the tail. Could be a blockage. Keep an eye and that. if it doesn't go away then something is definitely not right.

[bigsnakegirl78]

I updated about the lump earlier in the thread. He's passed it. :)

The light is definitely something to think about, but he seems to love it. When it's turned on, he immediately comes out from wherever he is to go under it, and he never avoids it. I will need to buy a smaller UTH and another thermostat for his enclosure, though. I don't have one small enough for his tank. It's good to know I can use a red light with him, as I had trouble with my boa constrictor. It seemed to really stress him out, and he spent all day and night in his water dish, without ever leaving it, for almost a whole week before I figured out what the problem was. I kid you not, the exact night I stopped using the light he was out and about, exploring. Now, the only time he goes in it is when he's in shed, even though I up his humidity to 75%. I guess he does it to relieve the itchiness.

[ConcinusMan]

I updated about the lump earlier in the thread. He's passed it. :)

The light is definitely something to think about, but he seems to love it. When it's turned on, he immediately comes out from wherever he is to go under it, and he never avoids it. I kid you not, the exact night I stopped using the light he was out and about, exploring.

Was this a red or night bulb specifically designed for reptiles? I ask because a bulb that simply appears red isn't what I'm talking about. A good night time reptile bulb will only put out wavelengths that are outside the snake's visible range or at least put out almost no visible (to a snake) light.

[bigsnakegirl78]

Yup. It was reptile night light bulb, bought at a pet store, and specifically designed to view reptiles at night. For some reason it bothered him, but it had absolutely no effect on my ball python. I may still have the box. If not, I can find the same product at the store.

[ConcinusMan]

It is plausible (and even probable) that different species could have slightly different visual range. Most snakes wouldn't be able to see it. Perhaps that snake could see it. Not likely a garter could. At least, I've never had an individual or a garter species that seemed to be able to see it.

[bigsnakegirl78]

I'm guessing he could as well, so I no longer use red lights around my snakes since I keep all my snakes in one room (except for the checkered, at least for the time being).

[bigsnakegirl78]

Well, I tried feeding him again today, and it's another failure. I first tried a piece of earthworm that was scented, it was rolling around and twitching, but he showed no interest. If it touched his nose, he would rub the slime off and go in a different direction. I bought some tilapia filets at the store as well, but he's not taking them either. Right now I've got him in a tall plastic pitcher with a few small pieces like in guido's video, but I'm not sure if it will be effective without another garter. He's just trying to climb up the sides right now. The only thing he seems to want to eat is live fish. I can try leaving the fish in the tank for him to get when he wants, but I don't think it will work. I already tried that with the live fish and the scented worms.

[guidofatherof5]

My video used live fish. You need them in a small round container.

[bigsnakegirl78]

Ok, should I risk the feeder fish again, or try another species?

[guidofatherof5]

Can you I.D. these feeder fish?

[bigsnakegirl78]

They weren't labeled as anything but "feeder fish." But, this is pretty close to what they look like, if these aren't what they are. I can post pics after I get done with classes.

http://blog.petsolutions.com/storage/post-images/22201.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1368817176784

I ended up giving him another feeder fish, and I put a thin slice of tilapia behind it. I'm not sure if the tilapia just wasn't strong-scented enough or what.

[guidofatherof5]

Pimephales promelas - Rosey red feeder fish. They are on the bad list. They contain thiaminase.
Check out the care sheet for more information on thiaminase.
Using these is a touchy subject and I certainly don't want this thread derailed.
If you do use them I would add in some worm chunks and slowly remove the amount of fish.

Guppies and Gambusia are a safe option.
Gambusia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambusia)
Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

[bigsnakegirl78]

Ok. Well, he got that tilapia and I was going to go ahead and get guppies next time anyways. Next time I'll make sure he gets something other than them to make sure he doesn't lose any more thiamin. He's still doing fine, but another time with them probably won't be the best idea.

[bigsnakegirl78]

Ok, so I got some guppies and a mouse pinky for him yesterday since the other fish were identified as bad. It's been 5 days since he last ate. The larger one died this afternoon, so I was kind of uncomfortable feeding it to him. But, I left it in with the smaller guppy anyway. He bite the smaller one, but released it and went after the larger one. It was too big for him, so he ended up dropping it and I threw it away. He completely ignored the other one. After a lot of hesitation, he finally took it. I left it in his water bowl (I went ahead and put the bowl back in) to see if he would take it on his own. During one of his swims, he finally took it. I didn't notice in time, so I couldn't slide some pinky parts behind it. The guppy was pretty small, so I'll get some more in a few days and try the mouse again then. The whole pinky is just slightly too big for him, so I cut off some parts. He totally freaked out, and acted like the mouse was a predator. He started wagging his tail around and flew off away from it. I tried scenting it, and he got interested in it, but once he touched it, he turned away. I'll be visiting Wal-Mart again to see if they got any scales in. Last time I went they didn't have any. I don't know if I just didn't know where to find them, or if they don't carry any. I was looking around in the cooking section for a grams scale. He seems to be growing right in front of my eyes, and I wanted to see some physical proof of what seems to be pretty drastic growth. That first fish I gave him left a pretty large bulge, but the second one didn't even leave a bulge even though it was larger than the first, so he had to have grown. It had only been a little over a week. 0.0 I would post some pics, but I can't seem to find any memory cards for the camera.