Wild caught YOUNG Garter snake, any advice please.

[doomkitty]

Hi,
I am sure you get many posts on this topic. My daughter brought home a very young garter snake yesterday and we would like to keep it. I have experience in juvenile/ adult reptiles that are established in their eating habits, but I have never had to start so young.
This baby is a common brown Garter (attempting to attach a picture), about 6 inches long, and I am assuming it wasn't that long ago it hatched. When can I expect it to eat and what should I look for as signs of hunger? Do they do better if you move their food? Do I need to make the food warmer?
What do I feed it? I do have trout (frozen, caught earlier this summer) that I can offer it but I am not sure if that is substantial enough for this baby to thrive on.
It is fairly active right now, mobility is smooth and it is tasting the air as it should be.
I am going to be picking up a 10 gallon tank later today to house it in. I live in Oregon where the last few days have been finger numbing cold, baby's natural environment is a chilly one. What are opinions on a constant heat source, or is room temperature ok?
I would like to get baby off to the best start possible, so any other advice is greatly appreciated.9770

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like a T. ordinoides - Northwestern garter. Appears to opaque (shed cycle) and female. The eyes look cloudy blue. It might not eat until it sheds.
Northwestern are cold tolerant. I do offer a warm spot for mine and they use it very often.
Slugs and earth worms/night crawlers are on the menu.
A nice under tail photo would be nice to nail the sex down.
Here's a link to the care sheet.
http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet

[Stefan-A]

Looks like Thamnophis ordinoides to me. Invertebrate specialists (slugs, worms and leeches).
Garter snakes are live-bearers.
It can take a couple of weeks or more before they start eating.
Unless you're feeding whole trout, you'll need to supplement it with multivitamin + calcium.
Room temperature is okay as ambient temperature, but it will need a hotspot in the enclosure that has a significantly higher temperature. Snakes need to be able to thermoregulate, or they can end up with all sorts of problems from calcium deficiency to dehydration and if the temperature is wrong, the physical stress can make it more susceptible to diseases.
As for the enclosure, I hope it's escape proof. If there's any gap that's small enough for it to fit through, it will find it and use it. The rule of thumb I use is that no gap can be wider than half the height of the head.

[doomkitty]

Currently it is a Lego tub with a click down lid. I will be getting a 10g tank today, and after reading about the body temp will invest in a small under tank warming spot. How old do you think baby is? How do I feed a snake so small, or does instinct take over when they are hungry?

So I checked on baby again and there was a very small amount of feces in the enclosure. I am assuming this is a good thing? Also should food be warmed? My daughter is going to go on a worm hunt later.

[Stefan-A]

Difficult to say how old it is.
You feed it by leaving the food in the enclosure on an appropriate dish, at least for now. You can try feeding it from tweezers or tongs once it's actually eating regularly.
The food doesn't need to be warmed.
Feces are a good sign.

[SD Reptiles]

A nice earthworm can do it to let him eat ;-)

[doomkitty]

Ok, earthworms in hand. Can I just leave the worm in a food dish in the enclosure, live? Got a 10g tank with an under tank heat source. The tank came with a green felt bottom, is this ok to use or should I just use paper towels? Baby is very active in the container it was in. I will post a belly pic soon, trying to limit handling it too much right now while it is adjusting.

[Stefan-A]

Either substrate will work for the time being.
You can leave the worm in a food dish. Personally, I like to place a paper towel under the dish when I feed worms, because I noticed that it tends to keep them in the dish.

[ConcinusMan]

Looks like Thamnophis ordinoides to me. Invertebrate specialists (slugs, worms and leeches).
Garter snakes are live-bearers.
It can take a couple of weeks or more before they start eating.
Unless you're feeding whole trout, you'll need to supplement it with multivitamin + calcium.
Room temperature is okay as ambient temperature, but it will need a hotspot in the enclosure that has a significantly higher temperature. Snakes need to be able to thermoregulate, or they can end up with all sorts of problems from calcium deficiency to dehydration and if the temperature is wrong, the physical stress can make it more susceptible to diseases.
As for the enclosure, I hope it's escape proof. If there's any gap that's small enough for it to fit through, it will find it and use it. The rule of thumb I use is that no gap can be wider than half the height of the head.

Everything Steve and Stefan said is sound advice. This species was my first garter way back in 1977 and I've been keeping them off and on ever since. They can be quite sweet and tame pets but some just don't adapt well and remain nervous, shy, or won't eat so be prepared for the possibility that this particular individual might not make a suitable captive. Most do just fine though.

I want to add to what Stefan said about escape proofing. Many people make the mistake of thinking they can't climb a high glass wall. But with water available at all times as it should be, they can get wet and use the surface tension to climb right up the glass. A tight fitting screen made for turning glass aquariums into a reptile enclosure is necessary and you'll need clips to hold it securely in place.

Aspen bedding, plenty of hides (just toilet paper tubes and pieces of cardboard work just fine) and maybe some plastic plants will make her feel more secure. After a week or two I would try offering a chopped worm on a dish then back off and see if it disappears. It could take weeks to a month or two before she'll eat. Unless she's visibly losing weight and getting thin you don't need to worry about her not eating. She looks like she was likely born this summer, probably early to mid July. Some northwestern babies hold out until spring to eat so if she doesn't eat in a month or so you might have to cool her down into the 50's for a couple of months, then warm her back up.

I know it's hard to resist but for the first month or so it's not a good idea to disturb or handle her much. This can stress her out and make her refuse food. She needs to feel safe and comfortable first. Once you get her eating you can get into handling her a bit and getting her used to you. Right now making her comfortable and getting her eating is more important. Handling can come later.

[ConcinusMan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJYvcazhDwk

[ConcinusMan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_YuaplPYH8

[doomkitty]

Baby update (that is not her name, kids have named her but I am hesitant to use it until I know she is established in her new environment); my kids brought in 3 small/med earthworms that were left in a dish, after the new enclosure was set up. I check 2 hours later and the worms are gone. I did check under and around items in the enclosure, so I think it is safe to say baby ate 2 worms. I will be offering more today, just in case.
Thank you everyone for the advice. I feel I am prepared to give baby the bast chance to thrive in captivity. I am sure I will have many more questions as things progress.
ConcinussMan, that is a fascinating video, both of them, thank you for sharing.

[ConcinusMan]

That's why I said to chop them. Chopped ones tend to stay in the dish lol. Snakes don't care if they're moving or not. They identify them as food, by their scent. Movement merely gets their attention so they'll move in closer to investigate. Once there, it's the smell that matters. In an enclosure, the snake will smell the food and find it. Movement isn't necessary.

If I just bring cut up tilapia fillet (fish) into the same room they (thamnophis sirtalis') smell it right away and come rushing out of their hiding places! ;)

[doomkitty]

Do young snakes do better when there is more than one the same size/age?

[guidofatherof5]

I think (just my opinion) that most garters do better with a buddy or two or three.

[acovert]

My Cuddles is a male Northwestern baby. He's about 2 years old and doesn't look a whole lot bigger than your baby, but it's hard to tell just with a picture. If I were to guess an age I would say 1 or 2 years.

I'm not sure if you've gotten the tank yet, but a little over a year ago my Cuddles managed to escape his tank because the basic mesh lid you get at places like petco was too loose. I was devastated. I've since modified the tank with some cardboard to make the lid nice and snug. Just a couple of dabs of super glue and the cardboard doesn't fall off. It's not the nicest looking thing, but it works and it's an easy way to make sure the lid stays on.

I feed Cuddles nightcrawlers for the most part. I buy those at Walmart. If you live near a Fred Meyer, don't buy their nightcrawlers (especially if you live in Portland). They die quickly and I've found mold in them a few times.
The Walmart nightcrawlers seem to be in better health and have more substance. You can also get worms from your yard or garden, if you don't use chemicals on it. Cuddles loves those. Slugs are good too.

Speaking of slugs, Cuddles (who was captive born and is small) has no trouble eating them, and even likes them. Scar, my full-grown wild caught garter, has tried twice to eat them and totally failed. For some reason he couldn't get a grip on them and just managed to get slime all over his face. He even wore one as a hat the last time I tried.

What really seems to go over well for both of them is live fish. I haven't gotten either to take frozen fish or pinkies. Cuddles is a picky little brat, and I'm not surprised with Scar since he was wild caught. If you can get your hands on some feeder guppies (I wish you luck if you live within 50 miles of the Portland area) or any other live bearing fish, that's a great option.

You really shouldn't need any supplements to go with the food. The worms seem to keep them healthy and happy. I use the fish as a treat, even though they are expensive because I have to buy fancy guppies instead of feeder guppies.

I think that's about all I have to offer in the way of information. I've had Cuddles since he was about a month or two old and he's energetic and temperamental. We rescued Scar in April or May and he seems to be doing fine, other than shedding, but that's because he has a scar that prevents him from shedding completely.

I live in Oregon, by the way. Portland, specifically. I love seeing Oregon people on here :)

[Stefan-A]

they can get wet and use the surface tension to climb right up the glass.
Adhesion. I think.

[ConcinusMan]

something like that. Point is, wet snake =
"
"spider snake, spider snake, does whatever a spider snake does" :p

[ConcinusMan]

I live in Oregon, by the way. Portland, specifically. I love seeing Oregon people on here :)

I'm in WA but if it weren't for the trees I could see PDX from my house.

[doomkitty]

I live in Portland too. I've lived in many different places and this is by far one of the most beautiful, diverse natural places I have been. Even after 4 yours the place continues to amaze me; like finding an abundance of Garter Snakes in an apartment complex, of all places, what a fun adventure.

[ConcinusMan]

Let's not forget racoons, deer, coyotes, cougars, etc. popping up right in the middle of urban areas on a regular basis.

I don't know why the story says Wilsonville. That's not where it happened. It happened on Portland's west side near Aloha. (Merlo st. max stop)A couple of years ago a black bear was found sleeping in a tree in Vancouver's Central Park by Clark college. And lets not forget the cougar that turned up at Westfield shopping mall in Vancouver a few years back, and one turned up on Fourth Plain blvd by the vancouver VA medical center too. All very urban locations. just a couple of weeks ago I saw several NW garters basking on the sidewalk in downtown vancouver near the courthouse. Racoons regularly sleep in trees in downtown Portland too in the pearl district. Crazy.

Sleeping baby deer rescued from TriMet WES tracks - KPTV - FOX 12 (http://www.kptv.com/story/22552948/sleeping-baby-deer-rescued-from-trimet-wes-tracks)

[ConcinusMan]

Good morning,
I'm Heather, I'm new to this forum and keeping hatchling Garter snakes.

I missed this post but I'm sure by now you know that they don't hatch. The only snake in our area that lays eggs is Coluber constrictor mormon (=Coluber mormon) - Western Yellow-bellied Racer (http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/c.c.mormon.html) The only lizard in our area is also oviparous. Unlike other alligator lizards which lay eggs, the Northwestern Alligator lizard has live birth.

All garter snakes hold shelless eggs inside until they're full term. They incubate inside a clear membrane with blood vessels attached to mom's circulatory system to provide gas exchange (so they don't suffocate). Then they are born live, fully formed, and independent. Ovoviviparity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovoviviparity)

[doomkitty]

I missed this post but I'm sure by now you know that they don't hatch. I am well aware of this now. Feel kinda silly for thinking so, but in all honesty at first I did not think them much different to Corn Snakes (and those hatch). I had lived in the UK for 12 years before moving back the PNW, over there the Corn snake (what I used to have) and Rat snake are the more common snake kept as a pet. It is absolutely fascinating how many reptiles don't lay a clutch here, yet the weather is relatively similar to the UK. Maybe this is evolutionary due to predators? I really had no idea. Cats and dogs I know, they are my patients after all.

[ConcinusMan]

I am well aware of this now. Feel kinda silly for thinking so

I don't know you would feel silly. Most reptiles do lay eggs. ;)

[acovert]

We get coyotes right down on the corner of my street. Lovely animals, but they're a threat to my cat, who's kind of stupid. We also have a massive raccoon and his girl who live in the pine trees nearby. We live so close to Powell Butte (not sure if either of you know that place?) that we tend to get some interesting stuff, including rabbits. Deer have never wandered down, but I've seen them on the butte, along with rabbits, coyotes, waterfowl, and owls. And, of course, garter snakes! Unfortunately, we don't get any garter snakes in our yard. I'm not sure why. We used to have them all the time in my grandma's yard, but that stopped too.

[ConcinusMan]

We live so close to Powell Butte (not sure if either of you know that place?) that we tend to get some interesting stuff, including rabbits.

Sure, I know it. As far as rabbits are concerned, i see them in empty urban lots. They live almost any place there's grass and blackberry patches. They even live along I-5 in downtown Vancouver, right across the street from the red lion. (by the interstate bridge) i'm used to seeing those popup almost anywhere. Even the Clark County courthouse lawn.

The problem with snakes is, just having good summer habitat and a food source isn't enough. If they lose their overwintering den or half of them get killed every year on the way to and from the den because of a new road or development, they're going to eventually vanish.