ID this mystery garter

[Stefan-A]

Every now and then I come across something I have trouble ID:ing. Once again, it's a garter that a local pet store chain has posted on their website.



http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2013/mystery/mysterysnake2013.jpg

Any thoughts?

[scott5017]

Possible ribbon hybrid? Honestly no idea.

[guidofatherof5]

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k501/guidofatherof5/th_beats-me_zpse688e88e.gif?t=1379797299

[CrazyHedgehog]

maybe its a mystery 'Northern' garter lol

[katach]

parietalis?

[Mommy2many]

It's not an Eastern? Looks like my snakes.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I have seen some easterns with that look, but it sorta looks like a normal Puget.

[Stefan-A]

Any other wild guesses?

[ConcinusMan]

Northern garter :D

I think it's just a plains garter. I've seen pics of Canadian plains that looked like that. Poor thing is undernourished though.


http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k501/guidofatherof5/th_beats-me_zpse688e88e.gif?t=1379797299

I'm surprised by that Steve. It may a look a little "off" but it still screams "radix" to me especially if you just look at the lateral and below. There's some pretty weird "off" looking ones found in Canada.

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry about that but I'm not familiar with the Canadian radixes. Not seen many at all.

[Light of Dae]

Looks more like the dark red-sided garters I found as a kid in Manitoba, Canada.
T. Parietalis.

Although the more I look at it the more I'm thinking it's a mutt... Maybe some Plains in it... The marking under the lateral strips looks Radix but everything else screams Parietalis.... No way its a pure Radix though... never seen one so dark...

It looks unhealthy too..

[Eddie]

The first third looks a bit like a Chicago to me.

[ConcinusMan]

Sorry about that but I'm not familiar with the Canadian radixes. Not seen many at all.

Well some are friggen weird. whether or not they naturally hybridize with parietalis with which they share their dens, I don't know. But I've seen WC examples that looked way "off" to me. Uniform base color w/no pattern, tops of the head uniformly dark, no parietal spot, narrow head. Just look at the lateral line and below and the colors. It's probably a Canadian radix but we can't rule out hybrid since canadian radixes and parietalis' are both "northern garters" as far as European pet stores are concerned. But I think it's more likely a WC Canadian radix. Probably could use a good deworming followed by proper nutrition and TLC but it has probably stopped eating and they can "see the writing on the walls" so they're trying to move it before it dies.

Looks maybe saveable. I've caught worse, dewormed and lost about half of them but the ones that made it recovered quickly, started eating, growing, and are fat and sassy now. Ones way worse than this one. If it was cleared of parasites and would eat soon, it's not too far gone. I bet it was WC in may or june and hasn't eaten since.

[Stefan-A]

They only have the picture on their website and I'm about 98% certain that it's just a stock photo and not a snake currently in anyone's possession. All talk of northern garters, WC etc. is pointless.

There's not one hint of either parietalis or radix in that picture. The supralabial markings and lateral stripe are nothing like what you'd see on T. radix, the dorsal stripe is wrong for both parietalis and radix. It's not even close to semifasciatus.

Find a picture of a properly identified snake that looks like it, if you think you know what it is.

[ConcinusMan]

TThere's not one hint of either parietalis or radix in that picture.

http://peakwatch.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452403c69e2017ee408b998970d-800wi

it's a radix. This grass is green, that pile of **** stinks, and the snake a radix.


Find a picture of a properly identified snake that looks like it, if you think you know what it is.


I already have. it looks like a radix. What do you consider properly identified by your description? Since you are the one who set's the standard or definition of "properly identified" then it's... see photo above.

so it doesn't look like any radix you are familiar with. Everyone said the same thing when I showed them a blue concinnus in 2010. I have photos of concinnus' you would swear are not concinnus. so what?


There's not one hint of either parietalis or radix in that picture.

Is it time for glasses? what are you blind or just really good at math? I think it's the latter judging from your background.

[Stefan-A]

it's a radix. This grass is green, that pile of **** stinks, and the snake a radix.
Demonstrate it.


I already have.
Show it.


it looks like a radix.
No, it doesn't.


What do you consider properly identified by your description?
That's a joke, right? Well, let me see now, identification made based on the actual animal, and not "feels".


so it doesn't look like any radix you are familiar with.
It doesn't look like any giraffe I'm familiar with, either. So what? Do you think it's a coincidence I'm asking for pictures of properly identified snakes to compare it to? Do you seriously think I'd accept hunches?


Everyone said the same thing when I showed them a blue concinnus in 2010. I have photos of concinnus' you would swear are not concinnus. so what?
I'll take that challenge. Now tell me again how it matters whether atypical individuals exist.


Is it time for glasses? what are you blind or just really good at math? I think it's the latter judging from your background.
You're really getting tired of being on this forum, aren't you.

[ConcinusMan]

Demonstrate it.

Sure, I'll get right on that. Purchasing a plane ticket now to southern Finland for a patch of grass, a pile of horse ****, and myself, so I can come to your home and demonstrate that grass is green and horse **** stinks. As far as the radix goes, as you say, it's a stock photo. So as such, since you say talk of "northern garter" is moot, than so is talk of it being a radix or even a giraffe since nobody here can prove or demonstrate that it's not a giraffe.


That's a joke, right? Well, let me see now, identification made based on the actual animal, and not "feels"

I will base my I.D. on an actual animal when you present one. Until then...



You're really getting tired of being on this forum, aren't you.

Oh hell no. I'm still a "newbie" I'm just getting started.

[Stefan-A]

As far as the radix goes, as you say, it's a stock photo. So as such, since you say talk of "northern garter" is moot, than so is talk of it being a radix or even a giraffe since nobody here can prove or demonstrate that it's not a giraffe.
What the hell are you talking about? If you're going to claim it's a radix, then surely you can justify, demonstrate, prove or illustrate it somehow. The easiest way for you is to cough up a picture of a properly identified identical or sufficiently similar radix.


I will base my I.D. on an actual animal when you present one.
The actual animal is there in the picture. That's what you have to work with. Nobody's forcing you to ID it, mind you.


Until then...
...you're just going to pull IDs out of your *** and defend them to your last breath. Got it.

Actually, screw it. I'm just going to make a roulette wheel with garter species instead of numbers, and every time I come across something new, I'm going to give it a spin and see where the ball lands. That's good enough for anyone, right?


Oh hell no. I'm still a "newbie" I'm just getting started.
Then start choosing your words a bit more carefully, because I am getting tired of your ********.

[Spankenstyne]

T. s. sirtalis imo.

While the dorsal stripe isn't as well defined as most examples, I've certainly seen many with the checkering below the lateral stripe. A couple of quick examples, it sorta seems to fall between these two Easterns:

http://www.virginiaherpetologicalsociety.com/reptiles/snakes/eastern-gartersnake/Thamnophis%20sirtalis%20June%202008%20Lynchburg.jp g

http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/Reptiles/Eastern%20Garter%20Snake/e_gartersnake.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

The top one looks a giraffe to me and the bottom one a red sided.


Actually, screw it. I'm just going to make a roulette wheel with garter species instead of numbers, and every time I come across something new, I'm going to give it a spin and see where the ball lands.

That would be as good as anyone's guess.

[Stefan-A]

The top one looks a giraffe to me and the bottom one a red sided.
Are you sure you don't want to call them both radixes?


That would be as good as anyone's guess.
That's the joke.

[ConcinusMan]

Are you sure you don't want to call them both radixes?

Naaah, not this time. I figured I would mix it up a bit.



That's the joke.

Glad you get it. I was beginning to think I was the only one that does. :D

[Stefan-A]

Glad you get it. I was beginning to think I was the only one that does. :D
Much like a neutered dog, you don't get it.

[ConcinusMan]

Much like a neutered dog, you don't get it.

10,000 comedians out of work and you're trying to be funny. :rolleyes:

[Stefan-A]

10,000 comedians out of work and you're trying to be funny. :rolleyes:
The one who cracked that one, died in 1992.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

One thing it is NOT.... That is NOT a radix. Not even REMOTELY close to a radix in any way.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I can't ID this snake for certain but I can say some things that it isn't and radix is at the very top of that list, next to infernalis... Lol.

It appears like it could be some type of sirtalis, perhaps it is a WC
intergrade and that is why it looks so strange. To me it looks like a sirtalis but has some coloration characteristics of a cyrtopsis.

[ConcinusMan]

TY Shannon. I know it isn't. It's obviously a rat snake.

http://bennewicz.pl/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Norwegian_troll_doll.jpg

[BUSHSNAKE]

That's a radix

[SD Reptiles]

It's a gartersnake !:rolleyes:

[Stefan-A]

That's a radix
The lateral stripe is wrong, as are the facial markings.

[SD Reptiles]

If that is a Radix , i am Santa Claus...

[the_edsta]

Looks like some of the less interesting sirtalis I've seen scurrying around in New England. That being said, some of this anti-radix talk seems a bit hyperbolic, considering the two species aren't exactly on opposite ends of the spectrum.

[BUSHSNAKE]

The lateral stripe is wrong, as are the facial markings.

the lateral stripe looks right to me, 3 and 4 for radix correrct? Its not a classic example of any species so...

[Stefan-A]

the lateral stripe looks right to me, 3 and 4 for radix correrct?
Except that it's in 2 and 3 on this snake.

[ConcinusMan]

If that is a Radix , i am Santa Claus...

Oh crap, he has the list. I can explain...