hello, new to owning snakes

[sketh]

Hi, like the title says i am new to snakes and have only owned the standard fish, bird, hamsters, rat, dog, and cats. Recently i had taken in a foot or so long garter snake, after research it i think it matched with the Northwestern Garter. i released it back where i found it and now i want to get a captive breed as a permanent addition to the household. i do have questions though and would love for you guys to help me out since I'm going in with no experience. also so far this site is amazing, i got redirected here multiple times while i was researching garter snakes.

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard.

[indigoman]

Welcome aboard!

[ConcinusMan]

Welcome!

Northwestern garter snake range is strictly west of the Cascades from extreme NW California to Coastal B.C. Canada, at low elevations. Just so you know. not sure where you are. they are extremely variable in color and pattern and so could be mistaken for other species that share their range.

I live in SW WA and it is by far the most commonly encountered reptile here. they can also thrive in urban or marginal habitats and subsist on just slugs and worms.

here's one I found in a small patch of landscaping in Downtown Vancouver, WA , an urban setting. This one happens to like fish as well as worms and slugs. Just the other day I saw one at the same spot only it was black with a yellow stripe.

I have also found stripeless, completely red, and solid black ones. Have any pics?

http://i44.tinypic.com/2vtpd6r.jpg

http://oi47.tinypic.com/70aryw.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6962/dsc00065medium.jpg

That's what I like about them. Variety!

[sketh]

thank you for the welcome stefan-A, indigoman, and concinnusman. i live west of the cascades in Washington state and not to high in elevation. found the guy on the side of the house while a weed whacker was in use, glad he didn't get his head chopped off. quick question while im typing this, found a website that sells northwestern garters and they seem alright, backwaterreptiles dot com, anyone know if their good and if its legal to buy one off them for my state?

edit: i didnt take a picture but a video. our scotish fold thought it was incredibly interesting to watch from my bed. the quality isnt great after rewatching it you cant tell any of the detail other than off black/grey. i can say though it had the same stripping and coloring of your first posted picture. the red was only in very small spots though.

[ConcinusMan]

found a website that sells northwestern garters and they seem alright, backwaterreptiles dot com, anyone know if their good and if its legal to buy one off them for my state?

Not legal for them to ship natives to WA. It's also not legal to collect or keep natives in WA. However, when it comes to garters, enforcement doesn't exist. They don't really care.

I'm headed up to Lewis and Thurston counties next week. if the weather cooperates I'll be herping around Nisqually/Dupont area. Whereabouts are you? if you don't mind me asking.

[sketh]

i live around the Everett area. im not surprised by the no enforcement, never been told it was illegal, i found out about it yesterday. any recommendations on a species that's a good starter garter and a place to get one?

[ConcinusMan]

it falls under an umbrella law protecting all native wildlife from collection and keeping as a pet. Selective enforcement though. They only go after pet stores doing it, when it comes to common non mammals/non game animals.

Northwesterns make very good starter snakes provided you get one that settles in and eats OK. Please read the care sheet and follow it. Northwesterns like it a bit cooler and not so dry but always keep the substrate dry except for perhaps underneath one hide or corner. They do well with a gradient of 70-84 F and some damp hides, deep substrate, moss, etc. and humidity 50-70%.

Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rk-C1JIZew

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you with us. T. ordinoides - Northwestern garter snake is my second favorite Thamnophis species. Here's a link to the care sheet Richard talked about.
Feel free to ask all the questions you want.
Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//744/medium/welcome.jpg

[sketh]

thank you concinnusman. here is the setup i got for the snake i had found. 10 gallon 20.25x12x10 glass tank. Aspen Shavings for substrate. one of those half logs as one hide and another large multi tiered log, has 2 logs, one on top of the other with holes between and around them all in one piece. a water dish, some kind of grey material kinda like the plastic park benches. also a heating lamp, small 60 watt, and temp/hum gauge.the tank its self is secured with 2 claps. i put about 1 and a half inch of substrate in then put the half log off to the cool side of the tank and put the 2 tiered on the other under the heating lamp. the water dish was set in between them. when i get my permanent addition, im thinking of getting rid of the 2 piece log for a few cardboard hides and a fake plant or 2. for food, i stupidly thought "it eats crickets right?", glad i researched. i planned on giving it some night crawlers. gathering from your information, concinnusman, unless i find a specie i want that's not native I'll have to wait tell i get lucky again and find another northwestern.

edit: thank you for the welcome guidofatherof5

[ConcinusMan]

Make sure wood/heavy objects are directly on the glass. Never set on top of substrate. ;)

Another place to shop for garters. Don Belnap. good guy, pleasure to do business with. index (http://www.donsgartersnakes.net/)

Jeff Benfer has some outstanding morphs; Garter Snake Morph (http://gartersnakemorph.com/Home.php)

[ConcinusMan]

BTW, WA natives are wandering garter (T. elegans vagrans) a puget sound garter, (T. sirtalis pickeringi) Valley garter (T. sirtalis fitchi) Oregon red spotted (T. sirtalis concinnus) and Northwestern (T. ordinoides) If anyone thinks I missed any, speak up.

Around Everett you have the first, second, and last.

If you manage to find the blue pugets in your area (they are there) they are gold. Everyone wants them!

This was Ft. Lewis right next to the military base
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbS6up9Vd8k

[sketh]

WOW that puget sound garter is awesome. i will be on the look out for one. will try get pics if i do find one, if i dont get another snake might keep. thanks for the sites concissusman, looking into the babies on gartersnakemorph dot com. stuck between the erythristic flame easterns, Infernalis, Axanthic radix (blues favorite color!).

[ConcinusMan]

These are pretty nice. Was supposed to get two of them this morning but it looks like Tom Hanks will be making the delivery.

Albino Red Sided Garter Snake (thamnophis sirtalis parietalis)

http://gartersnakemorph.com/images/redsidedalbino.jpg

[sketh]

those color combos wow. are there any albino problems? like the rats and other mammals have?

[ConcinusMan]

Sometimes their eyesight is poor and/or they are sensitive to bright light. Also they can sunburn or be vulnerable to negative effects from UV exposure. None of this is really a problem in captivity. I just don't use UV bulbs or anything but ambient light for them.


it looks like Tom Hanks will be making the delivery.

As in, 4 years late. http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif

No, I should have them bright and early in the morning.

[chris-uk]

Welcome aboard. Great to have someone asking the right questions before getting a snake (a few years ago I was guilty of an impulse buy and then researching... this forum was pure gold).

[sketh]

thank you chris-uk, that was the main reason i let the wild one i caught go.i was quickly finding out that i knew nothing and was getting things setup while he was here. i didn't want the guy to die from me being an idiot, too many hamsters under my belt if you know what i mean. i did figured out what species I'm going to try and get, the Axanthic radix at garter snake morphs, will be contacting them today and seeing whats what. hopefully everything is going smooth 2 weeks from now. is there anything i should know about the differences between the males and females, wondering about life span or behavior differences?

[gibble888]

Welcome...good idea on letting the wild garters be wild....i also let my wild eastern go just in case she had parasites or so on

[sketh]

thank you for the welcome gibble888. on the subject of parasites, I've cleaned the cage,the plastic 2 tier log, and water blow with a 3% solution of bleach/water, scrubbed it down, and then rinsed with harm water. the wood half log hide i ran under some warm water but left out the bleach. i have read to put the log in the oven at 100 for an hour to an hour and a half with constant watching or in the freezer. im looking to preventing mites in the future. i didn't see any mites on the guy i caught but i read their notorious at hiding. for the plastic 2 tier i plan on putting it in the freezer as its a plastic/resin material and i don't want it to melt.

[sketh]

just sent off the email to Jeff at garter snake morphs, hoping to hear back soon! By Thursday of next week i should have some pics ready, if money and other things play nice and things go smoothly.

[ConcinusMan]

Nice!

[sketh]

so while I'm waiting to hear back i went a head and took pics of the setup. let me know if anythings wrong about the setup.

tank(minus heating lamp):
9676
area i had the tank in before:
9677

[guidofatherof5]

I'd get some substrate in there even if it's just paper towels.
She's crawl through her own poop and get it everywhere and on herself.

[sketh]

guidofatherof5, i know lol. the pic of the tank is just how i left things drying after i went to town cleaning them. i have substrate in a container ready for when i get the tank up and running again.

[guidofatherof5]

guidofatherof5, i know lol. the pic of the tank is just how i left things drying after i went to town cleaning them. i have substrate in a container ready for when i get the tank up and running again.

Sounds good.

[sketh]

yup aspen wood shavings.

[ConcinusMan]

I would put the heat lamp over the fake log thingy on one end, water on the other. A 40-50 watt reflector type floodlamp or ceramic heat emitter should do the trick. exceeding that to say 60 watt might be too hot. the idea here is to get air temp on cool end to the 70's (no warmer)while allowing the snake to warm up to 80's-90 F under the lamp. setup looks to be just fine. Just don't fail to clamp that screen on securely on all 4 sides or add a very heavy rock on top.

What did you decide to get from Jeff?

[sketh]

on which one i decided on was the "Axanthic radix 66% possible het(p.h.)blizzard(black and blue, very sharp)$85 " (pasted from the currently avalible for sale section). i hope i navigated his side right lol. havent heard from jeff yet but its only been a few hours since i sent the email anyways. the lamp i have is a simple coned one that came with the tank, has a 50 watt incandescent bulb. for the wild garter i had the fake log under the lamp the half log at the far other end and the blow in the middle, i will switch it up next time. on the clamps part of the tank. it has the 2 clamps in the pic are more necessary? if so i can pick more up later today. for temps it would be right at 75ish on that middle of the tank temp gauge, but at 20-40% humitidty. the gauge came with a guide, which everything so far bought at the stores has been a little off, for garters. the hum gauge has desert, moderate, semi-tropical, tropical. guide said to have it at moderate-semi tropical for garters. after reading that keeping the tank moist can hurt the snake by giving it blisters,the word i found it most described as. i only did that day one and then kept the tank at 20%+ humidity with about 3 mistings a day, once at night one morning and another mid day, after day one. i heard people putting plastic wrap over the top of the cool side helps to keep the humidity up, is that recommended?

[ConcinusMan]

"half log at the far other end and the blow in the middle"

I don't think garter snakes do blow. Drugs are bad, mkay. lol but seriously, blow??

You don't have to worry about humidity for garters. it's really only a concern if it gets below 30% or above 75%

You could mist and partially cover the tank but I wouldn't do that unless youre using an undertank heater. heat might build up too much with overhead heat. If low humidity is a constant problem I would would switch to bottom heat. it won't dry the air as much. then you could place damp moss on the warm side and mist it daily. that should correct it.

[sketh]

sorry didn't mean blow! i was typing too fast meant bowl. form now on referring to it as WATER DISH lol.heres basically how i would go about the day with the tank. i would turn my rooms light on at dawn and then the heat lamp. when the sun went down, off go the main lights and heat lamp. the temp stayed above 65-69 at nights, never got above 80 during the day. for winter im going to get that under heater. i never covered the tank, just read that it can help combat the over head lamp dehydrating the tank. wont do it now that you guys confirmed by findings that they really don't need a constant high end humidity.

[ConcinusMan]

Humidity helps at shedding time. ;)

[sketh]

k, got the humidity thing written down. now the water dish was filled with distilled water. originally i had put filtered water from our tap. read that chlorine isn't good for them so i switched it to distilled. is filtered a no good in the future?

[guidofatherof5]

It you let the tap water sit out for 24 hours the chlorine will be gone. Tap water does contain essential minerals that distilled doesn't. Then I think tap is better then distilled.

Just my opinion.

[sketh]

thank you guidofatherof5, i was worried about buying jugs of distilled water. I'll to start putting a gallon of tap water out for a bit and stuck up from my tap. im going to look into a bottom heating pad for the tank. with winter coming soon, that top heating lamp may not be enough for the tank. there are some out there with a regulate-able thermostat or something to keep the temp at or below 80 right?

[guidofatherof5]

You need a heat pad and a thermostat with a sensor to monitor the temp. It will switch on and off as needed.
ZooMed macks a good heat pad and Hydrofarm has a very economical thermostat. Both can be purchased on Amazon.

[ConcinusMan]

It you let the tap water sit out for 24 hours the chlorine will be gone. Tap water does contain essential minerals that distilled doesn't. Then I think tap is better then distilled.

Just my opinion.

I agree. The chlorine you smell in tap water is just a very small amount to kill microbes, and it's gas. It leaves the water and dissipates into the air fairly quickly. Time required really depends on surface to volume ratio and temperature. A shallow large pan won't take long at all. Charcoal in tap water filters absorbs it. I use water right of the tap. It doesn't hurt them. But my tap water isn't fluoridated. Yours might be.


ZooMed macks a good heat pad and Hydrofarm has a very economical thermostat. Both can be purchased on Amazon.

I would do it the other way around. Zoo med thermostat and hydrofarm seedling heat mat. But I don't even use a thermostat with that heat pad. It doesn't get too hot like reptile pads can. Just make sure the pad doesn't cover more than 1/3 of the bottom and it should be OK. Use 1-2 inches of substrate on top.

[sketh]

k will be making an amazon purchase soon, with 2 opposite opinions from you guys i will see what happens when price and availability are know, along with own research into the items. yes my water is a little fluoridated, just checked our local water & sewer department. guess i'll filter a pan of about a gallon and leave it to sit for a while, put it in a jug for storage.

[chris-uk]

thank you guidofatherof5, i was worried about buying jugs of distilled water. I'll to start putting a gallon of tap water out for a bit and stuck up from my tap. im going to look into a bottom heating pad for the tank. with winter coming soon, that top heating lamp may not be enough for the tank. there are some out there with a regulate-able thermostat or something to keep the temp at or below 80 right?

I keep a couple of 2 litre drinks bottles of water for the snakes. I fill them when empty (but not to the top, I fill to where the bottle neck narrows so there's a larger surface area) and leave them until the next day for the chlorine to evaporate.

In some parts of the US I've read (on fish forums) that chloramine is used in water treatment instead of plain chlorine, and chloramines don't evaporate off so easily.

[sketh]

great idea chris-uk, i will use the 2 liter containers. i'll be calling my water company today to check which is used, a quick Google search didn't show anything for my area/state that i could find.

[ConcinusMan]

I also keep a 2 liter full without a cap on it, to top off or change snake water. another thing sketh, clean water is perhaps the most important thing you can have for your snakes. every few days wash/disinfect the bowl as well, being sure to remove any bacterial slime that might form on the dish.

I know they'll drink out of a filthy stagnant pond in the wild but they don't live long in the wild either.;)

[sketh]

i have seen some nasty water bowl at friends, though that was back when we were like 4 or 6 years old. never with my own tanked animals though, too paranoid lol. i'm also looking into spring water. my father recommended it since its can be bought clean without the nasty chems but with the good stuff you want in the water. until my water company opens today though i just have to wait and see what the source will be. but those 2 liters will be the storage for sure.

[ConcinusMan]

spring water would be great. good choice. Just make sure it's not stored for too long especially at warm temps because it is in plastic. After just a few months it will taste like plastic.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JauED94-kMY/TPXcfy1Q-5I/AAAAAAAAALw/3aLRUo6R4ac/s1600/family+guy+barf.gif

[sketh]

yup, will keep it stored in the garage never gets to be anywhere near 70 in there even during summer. if the temp does get high though i'll just put it in the fridge. i'll bring it back to room temp before i use it though. cold water cant be good for snakes.

[ConcinusMan]

They don't like it chilled or warm.

[sketh]

ok, just got an email from Jeff, they have one Axanthic Radix left! hoping to hear more from Jeff as to the next step. fingers crossed.

[ConcinusMan]

Is it a female? I ask because if you get a female first it can wait until next season to get a male. (male should always be younger and/or at least smaller) If you got snow male you could breed and produce anery/axanthics and normal lokking snakes that "het for snow' which is actually double het for anery/axanthic and albino. babies like that would be capable of producing albinos, anery/axanthic or offspring that are both (snow).

Snow, which is anery/axanthic and albino at the same time. How's this for a garter snake. It works like this. Take an an anery/axanthic, then make it an albino which takes away all the dark pigment. comes out like this:

http://www.albinogartersnake.com/images/3643Plains_Snow_Iowa_strain_male_04_11_2009.jpg

[sketh]

well i don't know if its a female, all i was informed was that its the last of the lot. breeding's not going to happen for a while if it happens at all. i don't have the space for it, time, or money. thought that snake you just posted is awesome. male or female is the first question I'm asking Jeff. also if it matters in terms of life span or behavior habits.

edit: also its from the lot of babies produced in January of this year so their only 9 months old.

[sketh]

sorry i got some info wrong, all i know was that its from 2013 babies not the month.

[ConcinusMan]

His site has announcements for all the litters. I'm sure you can read that and figure out exactly when the snake was born. Most of his litters come early in the season so the snake should be months old and well started.

[sketh]

i know they were born this year so not even a year old. is there in difference between the life span of males vs females?

[ConcinusMan]

about the same unless you breed your females hard. You can expect 9-13 years but I've had a concinnus male live 18 and a female just 2 months short of 21. that's exceptional though. 10 years is pretty typical. females get bigger, are thicker, and from my experience, usually calmer and seem more intelligent than males but there are always exceptions.

[sketh]

i assumed as much with male vs female. glad to see they, females, are calmer.