Raising a wild garter and have questions.

[alihauck]

Hi everyone! I have a wild garter I'm raising. It was very small when I first found it. I have a few questions to be sure I'm raising it right. Here we go:
1) I have it in a cage with dirt, grass, twigs and leaves. Is that ok?
2) I change the dirt every week, too much or not enough?
3) It eats pretty large worms every 2-3 days. I fed it 2 days ago and today when I fed it again, it was very aggressive. Am I not feeding it enough?
4) I use wild worms to feed. I get them from the area that the snake was found. Should I switch to store bought? Or start raising my own(there are worm farm kits)? I keep the worm in a container with dirt, leaves ect, so they stay alive.
5) It has doubled in length and width, does this mean I'm doing ok? I found him just over a month ago.
6) When do they first shed? How can you tell they're shedding?
7) how can you tell sex?

Thank-you in advance for your answers and input!:D

[guidofatherof5]

#1. I say no. Paper towels would be good for a single snake. This lets you observe the snake and see poop. Check out the care sheet for more substrate ideas.
Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)
#2. My first answer addresses this issue.
#3. This all depends on the size of the snake and the size of the worms. Aggressive behavior could be the wild part of this situation. Some snakes just have an aggressive feeding response. Wild caught snakes take time to learn and trust.
#4. If the area you get the worms from is pesticide and fertilizer free I would say keep using them.
#5. Need photos to answer this. Young snakes grow fast.
#6. If it has doubled in size I would say a shed is due anytime. The snakes eyes will turn cloudy when it is in a shed cycle.
#7. http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

Do you know what species you have?

[ConcinusMan]

Hi everyone! I have a wild garter I'm raising. It was very small when I first found it. I have a few questions to be sure I'm raising it right. Here we go:

1) I have it in a cage with dirt, grass, twigs and leaves. Is that ok?

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr61/JediGunship/grumpy-cat-8141_preview_zps9177ab07.png


2) I change the dirt every week, too much or not enough?

Doesn't natter how "fresh" it is, dirt is dirty. In spite of where they live in the wild you will want to keep substrate clean and dry in captivity. Aspen shavings/shredded are economical and a good choice. Do not use pine or cedar.



3) It eats pretty large worms every 2-3 days. I fed it 2 days ago and today when I fed it again, it was very aggressive. Am I not feeding it enough?

Feeding is not an exact science. Snakes are adapted to be able to eat way more than they need during good times to build up body mass reserves and to survive long periods with relatively little to no food. But it does sound like he wouldn't starve on that schedule for now.





[4) I use wild worms to feed. I get them from the area that the snake was found. Should I switch to store bought? Or start raising my own(there are worm farm kits)? I keep the worm in a container with dirt, leaves ect, so they stay alive.

Wild or store bought is fine just don't use "trout worms" "red worms" "compost worms" etc. Use night crawlers.



5) It has doubled in length and width, does this mean I'm doing ok? I found him just over a month ago.

I doubt that very seriously. Even the fastest growing baby garters I've had put on a maximum of around 2 inches in a month. Say a baby garter is 7 inches. To double he would have had to grow 7 inches. Not likely. I don't know how you're measuring it but unless you use a digital software program designed for measuring snakes, it's not going to be accurate.




6) When do they first shed? How can you tell they're shedding?

If it hasn't shed yet it probably hasn't grown so much as an inch. A snake growing an inch to 2 inches a month will shed about every 3-5 weeks. Their color will get dull and the belly and eyes may get cloudy. Will stay that way for a few days then suddenly clear up. Shed follows within a few days after that.

Welcome to the forum. Hang around for a bit, lurk and read more threads and you'll be an expert before you know it.;)

[Stefan-A]

Doesn't natter how "fresh" it is, dirt is dirty.
No. "Dirt" has multiple definitions and "dirty" is vague to the point of uselessness, as it can cover everything from the presence of harmful bacteria to harmless bacteria and inert particles and essentially anything that negatively affects aesthetics.


In spite of where they live in the wild you will want to keep substrate clean and dry in captivity.
This is true.


Aspen shavings/shredded are economical and a good choice. Do not use pine or cedar.
Aspen shavings are dusty and can cause respiratory issues, as well as impaction if ingested and in practice it's not necessarily any cleaner than dirt.

[Mommy2many]

Welcome! Would love to see pictures!

[ConcinusMan]

Never found any aspen shavings or shredded to be dusty at all. Only hear about it second hand. "ecoearth" is far dustier when dry in my experience but still didn't cause respiratory problems for milk snakes I kept on it. . And it doesn't much matter what substrate it is, I just don't let them swallow it. Accidents do happen though and I've sen them swallow small pieces which pass just fine. Probably best if he feeds in separate container with no substrate. I feed right in the tanks but only because I have a lot of experience and know how to tong feed in a way that they don't usually get substrate on the food.

[Mommy2many]

I have used both eco-earth and the aspen shavings and the shredded aspen. I prefer the aspen shredded as do my snakes. I noticed last week, after changing out everyone's "home", they seemed to enjoy burying and making snakie tunnels in the shredded aspen than they did in the eco-earth. In fact, one of the snakes I "snake sit" for, actually came out to rest upon the shredded aspen, which he did not do when it was eco-earth. I tend to use the eco-earth in the summer cause it doesn't seem to smell as much with our humid temps. Now that it is cooler, I can go back to the shredded aspen for a good 7-8 months.

[ConcinusMan]

hmm... I keep my snake room at 68-74 F year 'round anyway and I don't see humidity having any affect on how the aspen shavings perform. Now, if they get damp and stay that way for a few days they do smell like dirty old dish rag and start turning black with mildew/mold but I just keep it dry and change often enough so it doesn't do that.

[Mommy2many]

That's what happens. My snakes will "empty" their water dishes into the aspen and within the day, if it is really warm here, it starts to smell. It is time consuming and more expensive in the summer for me to switch it out every other day in 6 vivs. That's why I use the eco-earth once it starts to get warm. Fall is coming now and I have switched back to the aspen. They tend to not dump the water as much, and it lasts longer.

[ConcinusMan]

That's what happens. My snakes will "empty" their water dishes into the aspen and within the day.

Well there's your problem right there and it's preventable. I had the same problem. I had to try a million different things before i found what works. It doesn't matter what substrate you use, that needs to stop. I discovered it wasn't the snakes doing at all. if they scoot just one shaving onto the edge of the water dish, it will suck the water right out of the dish and onto the floor.

[alihauck]

I couldn't post pictures for some reason. Will try to make an album. I do believe it is a red-Sided Garter. I have taken away the dirt and put down paper towel for now. I will get either the eco-earth or Aspen shavings as soon as I can get to a bigger center.

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking snake. I would have to go with T. s. parietalis - Red Sided Garter Snake.
Be very careful of that "Critter Keeper" Snakes have been known to get their heads stuck in the opening or small holes.
A hot glue will take care of any small holes. Watch out for opening in the handle area also.

[ConcinusMan]

He looks a little on the thin side but not too bad. I wouldn't use a critter keeper at all myself. Besides you need to get him setup with a heat source and temperature gradient soon then start giving him some fish or even chopped pinkies in the diet too. Critter keeper won't do for that. A 10 gallon tank with secure screen lid or clear plastic tub and an undertank heater would work. Seems like he's just a baby. Is he very small?

[alihauck]

Yeah, I was just putting it somewhere until I can get somewhere that might have something better. All holes were sealed before I placed it in. Slither has been growing well, I got it just over a month ago (you should have seen how small it was then!) and haven't actually measured it yet (too scared to get that close) but I have been watching it and the growth is noticeable.

[alihauck]

When I changed to plain paper towel, Slither was kind of upset, it kept trying to burrow under ground (I have found it completely buried before) I also had his dinner (worms) living right in the container. You should have seen Slither hunting!

[alihauck]

Hey, has anyone ever raised worms? I had the thought that I could set up a worm farm and have Slithers food year round. Any other suggestions? All are welcome!
Thanks!

P.S. I am sorry for the multiple posts, but for some reason I keep getting denied. It says I have too many URLS when I don't have any?!? When I shorten my post it posts just fine.

[guidofatherof5]

We have a few members that raise worms.
I also know there are plenty of YouTube video and website that will give you lots of good advice.

[alihauck]

What kind of worms are best?

[guidofatherof5]

Lumbricus terrestris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumbricus_terrestris)

[guidofatherof5]

See my post earlier, I have photos of him eating a worm. They come from my garden so I think they are plain earth worms. It just get so confusing with the worms as everyone seems to call them by different names and a lot of them look so similar. How can you tell the difference? Sorry if I sound ignorant, but I am worried I might screw up and I don't want to hurt my snake over a stupid mistake.
How much of a pinkie do I feed it?

The quote is from the "Poop I.D." thread.

The worm you are feeding looks like Canadian Night Crawler. No problem there.
The worms you need to watch out for are composting worms not the ones you are finding in the soil.

[ConcinusMan]

I got it just over a month ago (you should have seen how small it was then!) and haven't actually measured it yet (too scared to get that close) but I have been watching it and the growth is noticeable.

Eating and growing are always good signs. I have no frame of reference in the photos to judge his size but there are other cues that indicate to me that he is probably only about 2 months old and pretty small. If he hasn't shed for you yet he's probably only grown about an inch but that's still pretty good. If another month passes without a shed I would start to be concerned that he isn't growing at a healthy pace.

If you can't get him some supplemental heat very soon he is at risk of getting an R.I. (respiratory infection). Without a tank big enough to provide a temperature gradient (low 70's air temp (23 C) w/ localized spot in the low to upper 80's (30 C)and night temps no lower than upper 60's(20 C) ) he can't thermoregulate properly and this will stress/weaken his immune system and stunt his growth. I can't stress how important it is that you do this sooner rather than later. In addition to the problems I already mentioned, without heat his instincts might tell him it's time to brumate and he might stop eating. If that happens he will need to be kept at a constant 10 C in order to survive the winter without losing too much weight.

Until you get this set up for him, try to put him in a warm place that stays around 26-28 C. Sometimes a closet/area with a water heater can provide that but make sure there is good fresh air/ventilation if it's a natural gas heater. I've incubated reptile eggs successfully by placing them near water heaters.

I'm very serious don't wait too long. Last guy that had a red sided and ignored this need for 2 months ended up with a very sick snake on his hands.

[alihauck]

I have placed him in a large hex tank. He can span the bottom 3 times over. I also have climbing areas for him. I have placed a small under tank heater in one area. He has water areas, in one of which I places several small minnows. He has already hunted and caught 4 of them. It was amazing to watch!! He has a place that he can go into (a rock) and I filled it with shredded paper towel. I sure hope he likes it. I could not find any proper worms for him, but I purchased some very small pinkie mice. Will try to feed those in about a week. I know they'll be too big for him, do I cut them length wise or just feed him the extremities first?

[alihauck]

I have placed him in a large hex tank. He can span the bottom 3 times over. I also have climbing areas for him. I have placed a small under tank heater in one area. He has water areas, in one of which I places several small minnows. He has already hunted and caught 4 of them. It was amazing to watch!! He has a place that he can go into (a rock) and I filled it with shredded paper towel. I sure hope he likes it. I could not find any proper worms for him, but I purchased some very small pinkie mice. Will try to feed those in about a week. I know they'll be too big for him, do I cut them length wise or just feed him the extremities first? I also have the tank in an area that stays fairly warm, about 72.

[ConcinusMan]

1 immediate concern I think you should know about is that (especially small) snakes can get their bodies wet and use the surface tension to climb glass like spiderman climbs buildings. Same principle that allows a slug to climb glass. I would hate to find out he went missing! Always have a tight fitting screen to prevent escape no matter how tall the tank is. Speaking from experience here. Trust me, he can get out of that tank if the top is open. Just a matter of time before he figures out how.

Rocks... can be dangerous. Never place them on top of substrate. snakes can get under, shift the substrate and get pinned or crushed. Even if placed directly on the bottom, snakes are strong and can tilt, tip etc and get pinned/crushed.

72 F is a good air temp. If you have an undertank heater and the surface of the substrate or glass above it gets 86F to 95F I would say he will do well with that. (lay a meat thermometer or probe on the surface) provide a hide near the warrm spot but also far away from it. Watch his behavior. If he tends to stay away from the heat it's probably too warm.

Minnows contain thiaminase. (an enzyme that can cause thiamine deficiency) a few won't hurt as part of the diet just don't make them a major component of the diet. http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/6654-safe-fish-list.html

Keep in mind the fish doesn't have to be live or even whole. He will likely eat fillet of Trout, Tilapia, salmon which are good choices. Once you find "dead food" that he likes or night crawlers, I would cut the pinkies while frozen, smother them in his favorite food so it smells like fish or worms, whatever, and offer him up a worm and/or fish w/pinky platter! (make sure all food is completely thawed and room temp. swallowing partially frozen food has the potential to be fatal)

Sounds like you've made some changes and are well on your way to many happy years with your snake. Just keep in mind the things I've said so that doesn't get cut short. ;)

[guidofatherof5]

I have placed him in a large hex tank. He can span the bottom 3 times over. I also have climbing areas for him. I have placed a small under tank heater in one area. He has water areas, in one of which I places several small minnows. He has already hunted and caught 4 of them. It was amazing to watch!! He has a place that he can go into (a rock) and I filled it with shredded paper towel. I sure hope he likes it. I could not find any proper worms for him, but I purchased some very small pinkie mice. Will try to feed those in about a week. I know they'll be too big for him, do I cut them length wise or just feed him the extremities first? I also have the tank in an area that stays fairly warm, about 72.

That's not fairly warm to a garter snake. They like to thermoregulate(get hot, cool down) their body temps above that temp.

[ConcinusMan]

That's not fairly warm to a garter snake. They like to thermoregulate(get hot, cool down) their body temps above that temp.

Yeah it's a common misconception. These snakes live in cold climates so the must be cold hearty, so 72 must be "fairly warm".

9675

Ignore highs and lows for the climate they come from. Ignore the fact you found your snake on a 60 degree day wallowing in a swamp. If you are to keep a garter healthy and strong in captivity the rules are different than you would expect. 72 F is fine for a daytime or even night air temp. But do not ignore their need to warm their body into the 80's or even approaching 90 F. Also not a good idea to allow a 30 degree swing between night and day or to allow a swampy or wet environment. Think dry and clean and always allow a snake to choose a body temp of 72F or 86-90F on any given day. The only exception would be brumating in which case it's safe to keep them a constant 48-52 F for a couple of months so long as they are not ill or underweight.

Attempts to replicate outdoor conditions/environment will usually end in disaster and a sick or dead snake.

Learned that lesson by the time I was 10. Just because I found my first concinnus hanging in reeds above a creek, I put him in a bucket full of water with twigs for him to climb on. big mistake.

[guidofatherof5]

That's not fairly warm to a garter snake. They like to thermoregulate(get hot, cool down) their body temps above that temp.

Let me correct my previous statement. "They like to thermoregulate (get hot, cool down) their body temps above that temp"

[ConcinusMan]

And I'll say again that a temperature gradient allowing the snake to thermoregulate on it's own is very, very important. Must be able to cool into the low 70's or warm up as high as at least 88 F (as they choose) on any given day is important. You don't have to leave the heat on all night though. Dropping the temperature down to no lower than 65 F for 8-10 hours a night is fine. 70 F at night is what I would recommend. I only leave heat on at night if they've just eaten a large meal or are healing an injury.

If they are kept without a gradient temporarily then put them somewhere around 78-80 F

[alihauck]

I have found him on the under tank heater a few times, but not always. He burrows a little so I am thinking he is trying to get closer to the heat source. Should I buy a larger one, because I had just gotten a small one and placed it near the front of the tank. I found him when the temp was about 54 degrees outside. The rest of the tank is just ambient room tempature, around 72-75 degrees, but that fluctuates, right now it is at 75 degrees.
The top is completely enclosed, I have the origional glass tank top and used half of that, then I screened in the rest. There is no small holes at all and he cannot get out unless some one leaves it open. I had to pad the screen edges so that he couldn't rub on them and cut himself.
The rock is not a solid rock, it is a store bought half rock that is hollow and filled with shredded paper towel.

[alihauck]

Just did a temp check and the substrate is at 90 degrees on top of the heat pad. What can I do to lower this? There is no adjusting the heat on this thing.

[ConcinusMan]

All sounds fine. don't change a thing. ;) Just keep in mind if the air temp is too cold, larger snakes have trouble raising their core temp and in an effort to do so, can burn themselves on surfaces that are too hot such as undertank heaters.

Try adding lots of fake plants for cover. He might feel safer and not burrow so much.

I use seedling heat mats myself. They're larger, cheaper, and don't get as hot, but hot enough.

HydroFarm MT10006 - 17W Seedling Heat Mat - 9x19.5 in. (http://1000bulbs.com/product/91625/GROW-MT10006.html?utm_source=SmartFeedGoogleBase&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=GROW-MT10006&utm_content=Cloning+Accessories&utm_campaign=SmartFeedGoogleBaseShopping&gclid=CP3y3bHV0LkCFaU5QgodcSMAlQ)

[alihauck]

Thanks! Just found him burrowing again. I have noticed that since I moved him to the larger tank, he is more skittish, he takes off as soon as I enter the room the tank is in. He ate all of the minnows (6), isn't that a lot? He seems to be looking for more!

[ConcinusMan]

If he has a good bulge in his belly that's plenty. Some snakes do not like wide open enclosures because they feel exposed.. Adding plenty of plastic plants for cover helps them feel more secure. I get them at dollar tree.

[alihauck]

Ok, I do have some plant cover from my bearded dragon. I will bleach some of them before I put them in Slithers tank. Right now he's hiding out in the rock and peeking out at my son and I. He is quite shy and I'm hoping that he will become more social able after awhile with us.
Thanks ConcinnusMan! You have provided so much invaluable advice! I apreciate all the advice I have recieved while on this site!

[ConcinusMan]

He might. Small snakes tend to be shy because they're on the menu for just about anything bigger than them. They tend to get less nervous as they get bigger. It would help if you left him alone except to feed him, and feed him by hand or tongs when you do. Then he'll learn to associate human interaction with a positive thing: Getting fed.

That's what I do. Within a month or two, even WC snakes I have get hand tame and actually come to me instead of fleeing in fear. Once they get to that point, a little brief handling now and then can build trust. Just make sure to put them back in their tank the moment they start showing signs of not liking it. If you don't, they will learn to dread human interaction as a negative thing.

It's just the basic positive reinforcement principle.

[alihauck]

Thanks!

[ConcinusMan]

These snakes went from scared shitless to this in about 2 months of feeding them like this. It's hard at first. You gotta hold the food close to their head without them taking off but once they get the hang of it and know when I do that it's nothing to be scared of...


http://youtu.be/NuH9Dw1c2iM

[ConcinusMan]

http://youtu.be/wrHUjvi0_tw

[sasmon]

All the videos say "private" :(

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah I know. Overhaul of my channel is in progress. Some stuff will eventually get the axe by the time I'm done but there will be lots of new content coming that was shot in the last year or two that I just haven't taken the time to edit or upload. Ive been using the channel as a dumping ground just so I can share a video real quick, for too long. Major maintenance/overhaul needed. It will take some time to complete.