Its oh so quiet Shh Shh

[jwolfe152]

Moms: Do Your Sons a Favor and Let Chickens Keep Their Wings | PETA.org (http://www.peta.org/b/thepetafiles/archive/2013/08/16/let-chickens-keep-their-wings.aspx)

this is a crazy accusation on what eating chicken does to unborn boys and girls

in the link they had in the article i see a lot of "may" and "implied" used, anyone else hear about this anywhere?

[chris-uk]

Moms: Do Your Sons a Favor and Let Chickens Keep Their Wings | PETA.org (http://www.peta.org/b/thepetafiles/archive/2013/08/16/let-chickens-keep-their-wings.aspx)

this is a crazy accusation on what eating chicken does to unborn boys and girls

in the link they had in the article i see a lot of "may" and "implied" used, anyone else hear about this anywhere?

It's a press release from PETA, therefore it is almost certain to contain factual inaccuracies and dubious science in an attempt to produce sensationalist new reports.
FFS.... of all the reasons for pregnant women to avoid eating chicken, the most reasonable one would be the risk of salmonella from factory farmed chicken. Taking the "chicken will give your unborn baby a small *****" is just a desperate attempt at making a story out of nothing.

[infernalis]

Simply placing links to "news" on a page does not make any of it fact.

So obese moms have babies with clogged arteries, notice that they simply throw this tidbit at you without connecting it directly to moms eating chicken?

The use of distorted context grants the illusion that these otherwise random tidbits are somehow connected to each other.

[Stefan-A]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2920922/pdf/ehp-118-998.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1280349/pdf/ehp0113-001056.pdf

[infernalis]

I see things like prenatal exposure to high doses... would this apply to a mother consuming a chicken dinner during pregnancy?

Granted, I only skimmed the papers Stefan, Will read in greater detail in a bit.

[jwolfe152]

i only read a small part of the .PDFs because i just get lost/confused really quick, but on the second one the said the used the Anogenital distance (AGD) to determine size. Well on the AGD wiki (Anogenital distance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anogenital_distance)) "Yet another study, by Swan et al., has determined that the AGD is linked to fertility in males, not ***** size.[3]" how do people like me know which one study is really the case? i may try and read the pdfs again but i doubt i get much from it.

[Stefan-A]

i only read a small part of the .PDFs because i just get lost/confused really quick, but on the second one the said the used the Anogenital distance (AGD) to determine size. Well on the AGD wiki (Anogenital distance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anogenital_distance)) "Yet another study, by Swan et al., has determined that the AGD is linked to fertility in males, not ***** size.[3]" how do people like me know which one study is really the case? i may try and read the pdfs again but i doubt i get much from it.
The source reference on wikipedia points to the exact same article. The good news is that there's only one study here, the bad news is that it's now a matter of interpretation (or rather reading comprehension).

[ConcinusMan]

It's a press release from PETA, therefore it is almost certain to contain factual inaccuracies and dubious science in an attempt to produce sensationalist new reports.


The use of distorted context grants the illusion that these otherwise random tidbits are somehow connected to each other.

So basically it's no different than news from other sources.:cool:


how do people like me know which one study is really the case?

Why bother.

[jwolfe152]

Dinner time with a salad and chicken alfredo with broccoli and bell peppers

http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t579/jwolfe152/Snapbucket/C361901F-orig.jpg (http://s1314.photobucket.com/user/jwolfe152/media/Snapbucket/C361901F-orig.jpg.html)
http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t579/jwolfe152/Snapbucket/7A6E2AC7-orig.jpg (http://s1314.photobucket.com/user/jwolfe152/media/Snapbucket/7A6E2AC7-orig.jpg.html)
:cool:

what are you having or what did you have?

[Mommy2many]

I had a baked potato, loaded :)
A Greek salad with red wine vinagerette
Cabernet
It all was yummy. Yours looks yummy too :)

[jwolfe152]

when i have a loaded potato i like them twice baked with loads of sour cream. as for the wine, i think its been 5 years maybe more since i have drank ANY alcohol. i dont think i know what a greek salad is lol im used to basic salad, lettuce (romaine/iceberg mix) onions, bell peppers, and maybe cucumbers

[infernalis]

The source reference on wikipedia points to the exact same article. The good news is that there's only one study here, the bad news is that it's now a matter of interpretation (or rather reading comprehension).

I combat this regularly and have been guilty of it as well. Just because a field study paper indicates that certain animals rarely or never consume rodents in the wild does not necessarily mean that feeding a rodent diet is going to lead to the demise of said animal in captivity.

However even "professionals" have taken that same research paper and cited it in their misinformation campaign. In this rare case, the author of said paper stepped forward and set the record straight...

And that is only one example.

Sadly, entire books have been written around misinterpreted research studies.


So basically it's no different than news from other sources.:cool:.

Garter snakes consume earthworms, the earthworms near Chernobyl are radioactive. Radioactive worms have been linked to cancer.

in the above sentence, if you didn't pay close attention, could start a whole slew of people scare mongering us into not feeding our snakes worms.

One simpleton could just read it wrong, But come on.... PETA intentionally throws these random bits into their campaigns.

So chicken is linked to small wieners in rats, I would bet that these rats were given doses well above the ratios we would consume in a meal, then have those itty bitty kidneys and livers filter out these exaggerated doses, and the rat has problems.

Why isn't PETA going after the researchers for making rats that get picked on in the locker room?

[chris-uk]

Why isn't PETA going after the researchers for making rats that get picked on in the locker room?

That bit made me laugh.

Then it made me think. There are supporters of PETA (or one of the more radical AR groups that they support) would quite happily plant a car bomb under said researcher's car. That makes me sad.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

what are you having or what did you have?I have been having Mackerel for the past few days.I'm a great fan of Mackerel. They are great eating,fun to catch, their colour and patterns are stunning and provide free food for my snake all Summer long !

[Mommy2many]

when i have a loaded potato i like them twice baked with loads of sour cream. as for the wine, i think its been 5 years maybe more since i have drank ANY alcohol. i dont think i know what a greek salad is lol im used to basic salad, lettuce (romaine/iceberg mix) onions, bell peppers, and maybe cucumbers

You are close with your salad description. Greek salad also has feta cheese and olives. Usually red onions. I could eat that every day. And I agree with your idea of the baked potato. I don't twice bake it, but mine is a recipe for a heart attack :) I drown it in butter, sour cream and salt and pepper. I also eat all of it, including the skin. YUM!

[jwolfe152]

yea you got to eat the skin with it i usually have skin in every bite lol ok i have something close to the greek salad if i want a big salad its either grilled chicken or green olives,pepper rings, pepperoni, cheese, onions, and mix ranch and italian dressing

[ConcinusMan]

I combat this regularly and have been guilty of it as well. Just because a field study paper indicates that certain animals rarely or never consume rodents in the wild does not necessarily mean that feeding a rodent diet is going to lead to the demise of said animal in captivity.

Definitely not. It's still my opinion that an all rodent diet is less than ideal for garters. I think at least half their diet should be something else such as worms and fish and it makes sense from an economic standpoint. Rat pups are the most expensive item my snakes get but they do relish them that's for sure, especially if I let them sit at room temp for a day. They seem to prefer them slightly rancid. Eeew.

[jwolfe152]

wouldnt that be dangerous leaving them out like that? or is it something that happens in nature all the time and they are able to deal with it?

[jwolfe152]

BBC News - North Korea angry at Swiss ban on ski lift sale (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23825131)

wow Kim Jong-un is crazy as hell.

like the story said "It is inconceivable that this resort will be used by the general public," Seco spokeswoman Marie Avet said.

[jwolfe152]

anyone do NFL fantasy football?

[ConcinusMan]

wouldnt that be dangerous leaving them out like that? or is it something that happens in nature all the time and they are able to deal with it?

No it's not dangerous. Most wildlife including snakes and even large breed domestic dogs have digestive systems that are immune to irritation/illness due to toxins released by bacteria in rotten food. Doesn't bother a garter snake one bit to eat rotten fish, carrion, etc. It won't hurt them or make them sick.

It's just that we need to take handling precautions so we don't spread the bacteria or contaminate our own food. That mouse recall that happened a while back with contaminated mice didn't pose any threat to our snakes. It just posed a significant risk to their human keepers. It had the potential to make humans who handle the mice, very sick if they don't practice proper handwashing and cross contamination precautions.

For example, salmonella makes humans very sick by toxins irritating the stomach lining. We absorb the toxins and it can easily overwhelm our kidneys too. It doesn't do that to most animals. They could eat it and have no problem. It goes right through them without getting absorbed into the blood stream. If we eat it we become seriously ill because we lack the intestinal lining to guard against that. It's an evolutionary trade-off. We had to lose that ability to eat rotten food, and start cooking it, in order for our big calorie-hungry brains to get enough nutrients. That allowed our stomach's to shrink and our brains to get much bigger. It also explains why rotten flesh is so repulsive to us. But to a snake or dog it's downright appetizing.

[jwolfe152]

ok good to know i thought it would irritate them but you have changed my mind

[ConcinusMan]

They actually seem to prefer it a little rotten. Probably because dead rodents don't fight back.

[jwolfe152]

i found the picture of the san fran garter thats in the top right corner of the forum


http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/images/tstetra2sm04.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Eye candy. That's all it will ever be for us in the States.

[jwolfe152]

lets just hope then can get the population back that would be awesome but doubtful considering the trac record for getting species back from endangered

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Eye candy. That's all it will ever be for us in the States.
I wouldn't moan if I were you Steve. I would happily trade being able to buy a tetra with having wild radix living in and around my house

[guidofatherof5]

I wasn't moaning Will. I was out-in-out complaining.:D

[Stefan-A]

lets just hope then can get the population back that would be awesome but doubtful considering the trac record for getting species back from endangered
It's doubtful, considering that they'd need to relocate most of San Francisco, down to the last brick, to restore the habitat.

[ConcinusMan]

lets just hope then can get the population back that would be awesome but doubtful considering the trac record for getting species back from endangered

The population is stable and at capacity. Lack of snakes is not the problem. It's lack of habitat. What habitat is left is fragmented and under constant threat of pollution, development, invasive species, etc. The snake is not going extinct. That's not why it's listed. There are many thousands of snakes and the population is stable and self-sustaining. The only way it's going to increase is if habitats are created/restored making room for more snakes. The snake is not actually in immediate danger of extinction but their habitat is. There's not much of it left and much of it is already unprotected private property. If the owners decide to develop it, there's not much they can do to stop it.

[jwolfe152]

i was actually just referring to the zoo idea but your right about every last brick. Even if they take that golf course where the snakes used to live it will probably take 10 or more years just to get that land in the right condition and im not just talking about, let it go and let nature take over, but if they go in and tear down the buildings and all it could make it worse with diesel fuel, oil, and other contaminates being put into the ground from the equipment

[jwolfe152]

today is the second time now that i have changed the information on baby garter snakes and what they eat on the real wikipedia page
Garter snake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garter_snake)

first time i had to take goldfish and crickets off the list and today, i had to take off tadpoles and mealworms, and add worms silversides and pinky pieces i need to figure out how to reference the care sheet from here so people stop adding wrong information

[chris-uk]

and today, i had to take off tadpoles and mealworms, and add worms silversides and pinky pieces

Nothing wrong with tadpoles if you can get them from a parasite free source. Tadpoles are a staple food for many species in the wild.

[jwolfe152]

The population is stable and at capacity. Lack of snakes is not the problem. It's lack of habitat. What habitat is left is fragmented and under constant threat of pollution, development, invasive species, etc. The snake is not going extinct. That's not why it's listed. There are many thousands of snakes and the population is stable and self-sustaining. The only way it's going to increase is if habitats are created/restored making room for more snakes. The snake is not actually in immediate danger of extinction but their habitat is. There's not much of it left and much of it is already unprotected private property. If the owners decide to develop it, there's not much they can do to stop it.

ok see i was under the impression that when an animal was classified as endangered it is in danger of becoming extinct. i also thought it was the number as well as habitat concerns that placed it on the list


Nothing wrong with tadpoles if you can get them from a parasite free source. Tadpoles are a staple food for many species in the wild.

i honestly didn't think there would be a parasite free source, although, i've never looked into it.

[Stefan-A]

ok see i was under the impression that when an animal was classified as endangered it is in danger of becoming extinct. i also thought it was the number as well as habitat concerns that placed it on the list

Guidelines for Using the IUCN Red List
Categories and Criteria Version 8.1

http://www.nationalredlist.org/files/2012/09/Guidelines-for-Using-the-IUCN-Red-List.pdf

[jwolfe152]

is there anyone here from Sweden?

[chris-uk]

is there anyone here from Sweden?

I think Stefan is as close as we get to Sweden.

[ConcinusMan]

Nothing wrong with tadpoles if you can get them from a parasite free source. Tadpoles are a staple food for many species in the wild.

And I do every year although the bounty is usually brief. I just get eggs in spring, raise them in containers on fish flake food, (very easy and cheap) and by late july I have hundreds of tiny pacific treefrog or american bullfrog frogletts, no parasites. Once they are terrestrial adults they could be frozen but my litters usually just eat them all up.:cool:

[chris-uk]

And I do every year although the bounty is usually brief. I just get eggs in spring, raise them in containers on fish flake food, (very easy and cheap) and by late july I have hundreds of tiny pacific treefrog or american bullfrog frogletts, no parasites. Once they are terrestrial adults they could be frozen but my litters usually just eat them all up.:cool:

I've considered doing this, but all of our native amphibians are protected, I'm not sure as to the legality of collecting spawn and feeding the tadpoles to snakes. I know I used to collect spawn and raise frogs when I was a kid but we'd release the frogs when they got too big.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Hjelte is from Sweden

[ConcinusMan]

I've considered doing this, but all of our native amphibians are protected, I'm not sure as to the legality of collecting spawn and feeding the tadpoles to snakes. I know I used to collect spawn and raise frogs when I was a kid but we'd release the frogs when they got too big.

Definitely no issue with that if I collect eggs from drying pools on private property. treefrogs are plentiful here and the eggs wouldn't make it where I collect them anyway. And if I collect bullfrog eggs there's definitely no issue. They're non-native, invasive and harmful to natives, and 100% legal to collect/harvest. Dept. of wildlife would be thrilled if I collected every last bullfrog egg/adult I could find and the treefrogs are certainly not of any concern. They're the most plentiful and adaptable amphibian we have. I'm collecting doomed eggs anyway. The water always dries up too early and they all get eaten up by birds and snakes anyway.

[jwolfe152]

And I do every year although the bounty is usually brief. I just get eggs in spring, raise them in containers on fish flake food, (very easy and cheap) and by late july I have hundreds of tiny pacific treefrog or american bullfrog frogletts, no parasites. Once they are terrestrial adults they could be frozen but my litters usually just eat them all up.:cool:


i never thought of doing it that way but very good idea

[guidofatherof5]

The population is stable and at capacity. Lack of snakes is not the problem. It's lack of habitat. What habitat is left is fragmented and under constant threat of pollution, development, invasive species, etc. The snake is not going extinct. That's not why it's listed. There are many thousands of snakes and the population is stable and self-sustaining. The only way it's going to increase is if habitats are created/restored making room for more snakes. The snake is not actually in immediate danger of extinction but their habitat is. There's not much of it left and much of it is already unprotected private property. If the owners decide to develop it, there's not much they can do to stop it.

I'm not sure where you are getting this info.(post your sources) but the latest 5 year study done clearly shows the numbers are in a decline even with stable habitats.
"Endangered" does mean the possibility of extinction.
Here is a link to the most up-to-date and complete study done on T. s. tetrataenia (San Francisco garter snake) Check out the last couple pages for some awesome population range maps.
I will also provide a link to the Fish and Wildlife page where "Endangered" is defined. I will cut and paste the definition.
http://ecos.fws.gov/docs/five_year_review/doc774.pdf
Endangered Species | Laws & Policies | Endangered Species Act (http://www.fws.gov/endangered/laws-policies/)

Endangered Species Act | Overview

When Congress passed the Endangered Species Act (ESA) in 1973, it recognized that our rich natural heritage is of “esthetic, ecological, educational, recreational, and scientific value to our Nation and its people.” It further expressed concern that many of our nation’s native plants and animals were in danger of becoming extinct.
The purpose of the ESA is to protect and recover imperiled species and the ecosystems upon which they depend. It is administered by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the Commerce Department’s National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS). The FWS has primary responsibility for terrestrial and freshwater organisms, while the responsibilities of NMFS are mainly marine wildlife such as whales and anadromons fish such as salmon.
Under the ESA, species may be listed as either endangered or threatened. “Endangered” means a species is in danger of extinction throughout all or a significant portion of its range. “Threatened” means a species is likely to become endangered within the foreseeable future. All species of plants and animals, except pest insects, are eligible for listing as endangered or threatened. For the purposes of the ESA, Congress defined species to include subspecies, varieties, and, for vertebrates, distinct population segments.

[guidofatherof5]

I need some help. I now have a fax machine sharing my T.radix Ranch phone number. I would like to test this thing out but don't have a fax number to send to. If any member has a fax machine I would like to send a test page to see if I have things configured correctly. If you don't mind helping out send me a PM with the number.
If you'd like to send me a fax that would be great also.
Thanks for your help.

[guidofatherof5]

I need some help. I now have a fax machine sharing my T.radix Ranch phone number. I would like to test this thing out but don't have a fax number to send to. If any member has a fax machine I would like to send a test page to see if I have things configured correctly. If you don't mind helping out send me a PM with the number.
If you'd like to send me a fax that would be great also.
Thanks for your help.

Done. Thanks for your help.

[jwolfe152]

hey is anyone good at identifying salamanders?

[Stefan-A]

Let's find out.

[jwolfe152]

nevermind i think i found it but could someone give me advice on taking pics of salamanders without them twisting and flopping and falling and then picking them back up lol

but anyways i think they are Jefferson Salamanders (Ambystoma jeffersonianum) i would just like to know i have caught many salamanders around cricks (creeks) and stream when camping but i just found a way to get to a small stream ive been wanting to get to and found TONS of HUGE salamanders. i mean these are the biggest i have ever seen but could not grab any before they took off i only got the 4 jeffersons (like i said i think thats what they are)

[jwolfe152]

side
http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t579/jwolfe152/Snapbucket/EBD1A526-orig.jpg (http://s1314.photobucket.com/user/jwolfe152/media/Snapbucket/EBD1A526-orig.jpg.html)
Top
http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t579/jwolfe152/Snapbucket/56DD1116-orig.jpg (http://s1314.photobucket.com/user/jwolfe152/media/Snapbucket/56DD1116-orig.jpg.html)

[jwolfe152]

hey has anyone here seen the 4 part series "The Men Who Built America" on The History Channel? its about Vanderbilt, J.P. Morgan, John D. Rockefeller, (sp?) Andrew Carnegie and a few others?

i was just wondering because its VERY interesting well i think it is and when i went to kennywood we took the "back" way where you pass a BIG U.S. Steel plant and i thought about the show and how old that plant probably is...just something i thought was interesting

[ConcinusMan]

Unfortunately the act came too late for many species and still does too little good. Only a small fraction of the endangered species in North America are even on the list or protected at all because of all the bureaucratic red tape and years it takes to get them on the list. Furthermore, many species are going extinct due to climate change. The current mass extinction began with the ending of the last ice age. The planet has continued to warm and there's really not much we can do about it. Mass extinction is inevitable and is a runaway train we didn't even start and is pretty much beyond our control. Although we try, in the end it will have very little effect if the planet continues to warm and co2 levels keep rising. It's not all bad though it's just the end of an epoch but a new one will take it's place just like it's done many times before. The mass extinction that cleared the way for new forms/species that led to out existence killed roughly 75% of life on earth. It's no biggie. it's bounced back before from 98% being killed. The endangered species act is just another one of man's attempts to govern himself and nature which will fail because the only true laws and laws that really matter are the laws of nature. Those have absolute rule when all is said and done. In that regard the writers of the Bible got it right. money will fail, man's attempt to govern himself with his laws will fail. I think they understood back then that the rule of natural law is only true authority we must answer to.

But the Devil put dinosaur remains here to fool us.:rolleyes: :p

[ConcinusMan]

I'm not sure where you are getting this info.(post your sources) but the latest 5 year study done clearly shows the numbers are in a decline even with stable habitats. Here is a link to the most up-to-date and complete study done on T. s. tetrataenia (San Francisco garter snake) Check out the last couple pages for some awesome population range maps.

I'll have to take your word for it. I can't get the PDF to load. First time it only loaded the first two pages and browser stopped responding. Second time it got to page 12 after taking a long time then just quit, the rest is blank.


"Endangered" does mean the possibility of extinction.

That's a pretty broad definition. Fact remains that a species can be stable or even increasing and still be listed especially if the only suitable habitat in their small range is disappearing or degrading which is stated as their #1 threat and reason for listing. Also, "it estimated that there are perhaps twice as many as surveys indicate because of the elusive nature of this reptile and the fact that much of the remaining suitable habitat is located on private property that has not been surveyed for the presence of the snake." And... " the full extent of the snakes' habitat has not been fully documented, and many snakes may utilize creeks and other waterways that are currently unexplored" Even if the habitats that are left were crammed with as many snakes as it can support, and populations were stuck at maximum they would still be listed as endangered just for the simple fact that their range is very small and all that habitat is not protected and under threat of being destroyed. My point is the criteria for listing them does not have to include falling numbers. Furthermore there could be 800 million of them in captivity and they would still be listed because only wild populations count.

[Stefan-A]

The current mass extinction began with the ending of the last ice age.
At least two separate events, with separate causes.


The planet has continued to warm and there's really not much we can do about it.
That's just false.


Mass extinction is inevitable and is a runaway train we didn't even start and is pretty much beyond our control.
But we did start the one in question and it's not beyond our control. Lack of will is not quite the same as lack of ability.


It's not all bad though it's just the end of an epoch but a new one will take it's place just like it's done many times before.
It is bad and it was bad every time it happened in the past.


The mass extinction that cleared the way
There was no way to clear. There was no plan for new species to emerge, that's just a consequence of changing conditions.


It's no biggie.
No, it's a biggie. It was a biggie every damn time it happened in the past.


it's bounced back before from 98% being killed.
What has bounced back? And don't ignore the cost.


The endangered species act is just another one of man's attempts to govern himself and nature which will fail because the only true laws and laws that really matter are the laws of nature. Those have absolute rule when all is said and done. In that regard the writers of the Bible got it right. money will fail, man's attempt to govern himself with his laws will fail. I think they understood back then that the rule of natural law is only true authority we must answer to.

But the Devil put dinosaur remains here to fool us.:rolleyes: :p
http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/garbage/picardyourself.jpg

How high are you right now?

[guidofatherof5]

Your a computer guy, poor excuse.:D

We can suppose all we want about them but the fact remains they are listed as "endangered"

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah well some sources/severs are better than others when it comes to downloading PDF's. I assure you the problem is not something I can control. My computer could request the data all day long but if they don't send it in a timely and efficient manner and give me some bandwidth or of there's a data bottleneck between their servers and me...

You wouldn't necessarily have that problem due to your way different location. I could download PDF's from Seattle or Oregon .edu servers lighting fast but for you it could take a while or you might have a little trouble/lag.

To clarify, my browser didn't actually freeze up. It was just so busy trying to load it that it couldn't do much else simultaneously. I closed all other tabs, tried to reload and left it overnight. Results weren't much better and was still trying to load it this morning. Still didn't get to read it. Maybe someone else could download it and send me the file by email or whatever?

EDIT: Nevermind. Problem solved and it was on my end when I investigated. Took about 30 seconds to fix. Yes, I is a pooter guy. :D That will $39.95 please. Wait... it's my computer.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh **** can we move this (except for the first post) I thought about it after i posted the reply that this might not have been a good idea to put the reply here. if you will please move it I will post a response and try to give a different perspective on the matter without sticking my foot in my mouth like I usually do.

Oh and incidentally I was not high and hadn't been in at least 4 hours :p If I had been, I probably would have just grabbed a bag of cheeto's moved to living room to watch a movie followed by a nap and said screw it instead of posting a reply.

[ConcinusMan]

At least two separate events, with separate causes.

You sound pretty confident about it being two different causes when not many can even agree what the causes are. You even expressed doubt about the current warming cause before so how can you say it was 2 different causes? So I guess it's my imagination that the ice age ended, all the ice melted, save the caps and also my imagination that the caps themselves are melting too. Warming is the cause. I don't much care about what caused the warming and I don't have much confidence that anyone really knows. The fact is it warmed up causing the extinction of many species and it's still warming and causing extinctions.



That's just false.

Sure it is. The ice is still melting but you're telling me it's my imagination and that it's not warming? That doesn't compute. A pause or even a swing back to somewhat cold for a few thousand years before continuing does not constitute an end to the warming which started long before we had the ability to affect it if we indeed affect it at all.


But we did start the one in question and it's not beyond our control.

Bull ****. We only helped to accelerate what was already happening. If the warming continues so will the extinctions. Even if doesn't warm anymore they will continue still because of the warming that has already happened. Explain to me how it is you think we can stop that. Even if we did start it can we really stop it now? One can only speculate.


It is bad and it was bad every time it happened in the past.

I stand corrected. It was neither good nor bad. It just was. "good" and "bad" are purely a matter of perspective. "Good and bad is always good and bad for someone in particular. In that sense they are relative"


There was no way to clear. There was no plan for new species to emerge, that's just a consequence of changing conditions.

That was exactly my point. I'm just not very good at written communication. Thanks for putting it better than I did. Conditions are changing again. New species will emerge again.



No, it's a biggie. It was a biggie every damn time it happened in the past.

It's only a biggie if you happen to be one of the species that cannot adapt and end up extinct. What I mean is that it's no biggie in the bigger picture and context of geologic time. It's not like it's going to end life on earth. It will just change life on earth.



What has bounced back? And don't ignore the cost.

Don't be naive. What was left surviving after snowball earth? Not much. How does that compare to life found to be flourishing during later epochs? cost? what does that even mean?

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/garbage/picardyourself.jpg

My entire point from the beginning was, how much effect do you really think a few laws are going to have in determining the course of extinction and emergence of new species later. In the long run, none. They all go extinct eventually including ourselves.

[jwolfe152]

i don't think it will matter what laws are made until EVERYONE follows them, and thats not going to happen until there is someone to monitor everything people do and even after that i have my doubts. i may be wrong here but its not just humans and pollution when things die and decay/rot they release carbon into the atmosphere and at some point that would have caused the planet to heat up too, right? also how many people think that some of this warming is a small part of a cycle that has been going on for a long time. im not saying that we as people have not accelerated it, but we are not the only reason for it. thats just my 2¢

[RicMartin]

In California until the springs that crisscross our garter habitat are cleaned of their current industrial pollution, our garter populations can't thrive.
The S.F. Garter could survive a bit longer in captivity because she's so beautiful and so popular in Europe, but after the wild population goes, the genetics will eventually deteriorate in the captive population.

Barely regulated and unsustainable urban sprawl in CA causes deadly problems to ourselves; it's just as bad an idea for the garter communities that try to survive around us. Developers' money and golf courses count for more here than any common sense or animal life; T. s. tetrataenia are killed by golf lawn mowers around here.

Oil will only go away when its fraud-inflated price kills its captive-customer demand. Looks like this may finally happen in our generation, regardless wether climate change keeps on happening or any miracle stops it. Good riddance.

Maybe our sons will be smarter (I know they are) and they will care more for our environment. In the mean time this page made me hope and smile:

Prominent scientists sign declaration that animals have conscious awareness, just like us (http://io9.com/5937356/prominent-scientists-sign-declaration-that-animals-have-conscious-awareness-just-like-us)

[jwolfe152]

Then you're going to hear people say "they are snakes they don't think", and i would say "you are wrong
". But they do think to an extent, they don't want to die, thats why they have defenses like musk and striking. They LEARNED these defenses regardless how long ago it was. but they don't sit around contemplating their role in nature or what they want to do tomorrow, they don't know things like love, they know mating, they have feelings as in pain or anxiety/stress. Now im not a PETA supporter, some of their views are just messed up, but i bet that animals know they are alive and don't want to be eaten or killed. or have their habitat destroyed

[ConcinusMan]

i don't think it will matter what laws are made until EVERYONE follows them, and thats not going to happen until there is someone to monitor everything people do and even after that i have my doubts.

I'll say it again. The rule of natural law is the the only true authority and only true laws that ever did or ever will exist. We won't have to monitor anyone or anything. Nature will do it for us. We either align with the order of nature or "she" will take us out (eliminate us as a species) and restore order. It's that simple. In the long run we won't have any choice. We will be forced to align with the order of natural law. If we do not, we go extinct.

[Stefan-A]

You sound pretty confident about it being two different causes when not many can even agree what the causes are.
At least two different. One caused by the climate drastically changing after the last ice age and one caused directly by human activity.


You even expressed doubt about the current warming cause before
Yes, what was it, 5 or 6 years ago? Fact of the matter is that there is more than one factor affecting temperatures and over the last century, we've finally grown big enough to be one as well. Although at least one researcher believes we started it a few thousand years ago when we started growing rice, which produces one of the worse greenhouse gases, namely methane.


so how can you say it was 2 different causes?
Because it was at least 2 different causes and the point of contention was then the physical properties of CO2, which are undeniable and easily testable.


So I guess it's my imagination that the ice age ended, all the ice melted, save the caps and also my imagination that the caps themselves are melting too. Warming is the cause. I don't much care about what caused the warming and I don't have much confidence that anyone really knows. The fact is it warmed up causing the extinction of many species and it's still warming and causing extinctions.
The species that died out due to the end of the ice age, were species that had evolved under those conditions, which ended some 10 thousand years ago. The one you are seeing now, is a direct result of human activity.


Sure it is. The ice is still melting
Again. It's melting again.


A pause or even a swing back to somewhat cold for a few thousand years before continuing does not constitute an end to the warming which started long before we had the ability to affect it if we indeed affect it at all.
Yes, it does. Especially when there's an Episode II to the saga.



Bull ****. We only helped to accelerate what was already happening.
Now THAT'S bullshit. Again, separate events with different causes.


If the warming continues so will the extinctions.
Sure. What's your point?


Even if doesn't warm anymore they will continue still because of the warming that has already happened.
No. At least not due to what has already happened. It's the change that kills off species, not relatively stable new conditions.


Explain to me how it is you think we can stop that. Even if we did start it can we really stop it now? One can only speculate.
You're asking me to defend something that I don't even agree with.


I stand corrected. It was neither good nor bad.
No, it was bad.


It just was. "good" and "bad" are purely a matter of perspective. "Good and bad is always good and bad for someone in particular. In that sense they are relative"
Fine, it was bad for everyone involved.


It's only a biggie if you happen to be one of the species that cannot adapt and end up extinct.
No, it was a biggie to everyone else, too. Barely surviving a disaster that kills everyone else renders it neither "good" nor a "non-biggie".


What I mean is that it's no biggie in the bigger picture and context of geologic time.
There is no bigger picture and geological time is irrelevant. We're talking about something that affects lives. That's the frame of reference. It doesn't matter what might be one day. You, me and every other living organism on the planet are living in a short period described inaccurately as the present, not geological time.


It's not like it's going to end life on earth. It will just change life on earth.
You do realize that continued existence is preferable to extinction, at least in the eyes of those involved?


Don't be naive. What was left surviving after snowball earth? Not much. How does that compare to life found to be flourishing during later epochs?
What's the relevancy here? What was there before snowball earth? What does it matter what was there after? Again, change only matters from the perspective of those who are experiencing it and we're about to start experiencing a big one.


cost? what does that even mean?
You do know what the word "cost" means. Now apply that to "98% being killed".


My entire point from the beginning was, how much effect do you really think a few laws are going to have in determining the course of extinction
That depends on the laws, the people who should be following them and the people enforcing them. All can be affected.


and emergence of new species later.
Not our concern. There's not even any need to take them into consideration, because ideally, there wouldn't be any.


In the long run, none. They all go extinct eventually including ourselves.
So what? The "long run" doesn't matter, not in the sense you're using it. Geological time does not matter.

[ConcinusMan]

Sure. What's your point?

I told you already. A few laws and the protections afforded species on the endangered list aren't going to amount to squat when climate change is going to wipe them out anyway. If the equatorial rainforests continue shrinking it doesn't much matter what we do, or don't do anywhere else. We'll all (species) be in big doo-doo.

[Stefan-A]

I presume you concede my other points, since you only responded to that.


A few laws and the protections afforded species on the endangered list aren't going to amount to squat when
That's wrong...


climate change is going to wipe them out anyway.
...and that's wrong.


If the equatorial rainforests continue shrinking it doesn't much matter what we do, or don't do anywhere else. We'll all (species) be in big doo-doo.
They're not that important.

[ConcinusMan]

I presume you concede my other points, since you only responded to that.

Not entirely. I'm just lazy and have other things to do today.;)

But honestly many of your responses sound like opinion and I'm not going to argue against opinion. You're entitled to your point of view which is neither wrong nor right necessarily even if I don't hold that same point of view or agree with it.

We obviously have differing perspectives on some key points but both points of view are valid.

[Stefan-A]

But honestly many of your responses sound like opinion and I'm not going to argue against opinion.
Well, I was arguing against your opinions. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

[ConcinusMan]

Agreed but where's the evidence that suggests the equatorial rainforests "aren't that important" when all I've heard scientists saying about suggests the opposite? Same goes for the fact that climate change alone is enough to wipe out many of the species that are now in danger of extinction. At one point you say that's wrong and at another point you acknowledge that the changes do drive species to extinction. Mainly I didn't argue these points because I'm getting mixed messages as to exactly where you stand on the matter.

It's wishful thinking and not very realistic to think the endangered species act will make one bit of difference in anything but the very short term. The only thing that will have a significant impact is our absence from this planet.

[Stefan-A]

Agreed but where's the evidence that suggests the equatorial rainforests "aren't that important"
Emphasis on the word "that".


when all I've heard scientists saying about suggests the opposite?
And what exactly have they said? Are they endorsing your interpretation?


Same goes for the fact that climate change alone is enough to wipe out many of the species that are now in danger of extinction.
You've basically gone from all to many.


At one point you say that's wrong and at another point you acknowledge that the changes do drive species to extinction.
Context + nuance.


Mainly I didn't argue these points because I'm getting mixed messages as to exactly where you stand on the matter.
Complex issue, complex answers. Avoid oversimplifications, is the lesson to take home.


It's wishful thinking and not very realistic to think the endangered species act will make one bit of difference
It's not wishful thinking, or unrealistic and if you have a solution that will yield better results, do share.


in anything but the very short term.
Short term meaning what? Are back on geological time now?


The only thing that will have a significant impact is our absence from this planet.
Incorrect. It would have a significant impact, but mass suicide isn't going to be a solution.

[ConcinusMan]

Short term meaning what? Are back on geological time now?

Damn right I am. If the goal is to delay extinction a few decades or maybe even a few centuries then fine. It can be, although it's often not, very effective. But if that's the case, then, to what end? and at what cost? I see how it's working out for the San Fransisco Garter Snake. It looks to me like endangered species list or not, they aren't going to make it then all we've managed to accomplish is to delay the inevitable for what? a few generations?



It's not wishful thinking, or unrealistic and if you have a solution that will yield better results, do share.

Not having a better solution doesn't make the current one any less ineffective. I'm not saying we should do nothing. I just don't think what we are doing is enough or going to make anything remotely resembling a dramatic impact. Might as well be swallowing a spider to catch the fly.



It would have a significant impact, but mass suicide isn't going to be a solution.

Yeah I know. I guess it's a good think we won't have to do that because at some point "nature will make that decision" and "pull that trigger" for us.

[Stefan-A]

Damn right I am.
Then snap out of it.


If the goal is to delay extinction a few decades or maybe even a few centuries then fine.
Prevent. As in indefinitely, not eternally.


It can be, although it's often not, very effective.
More effective than doing nothing.


But if that's the case, then, to what end?
We're doing it for selfish reasons. It's the whole "don't **** where you eat" thing.


and at what cost?
No significant.


I see how it's working out for the San Fransisco Garter Snake.
They're still around. Without a system of protection, they'd be long gone.


It looks to me like endangered species list or not, they aren't going to make it then all we've managed to accomplish is to delay the inevitable for what? a few generations?
Since when is buying time a bad thing?


Not having a better solution doesn't make the current one any less ineffective.
Actually, it does. Effectiveness is relative.


I'm not saying we should do nothing. I just don't think what we are doing is enough or going to make anything remotely resembling a dramatic impact.
At least we agree on that point.
However, you should lower your expectations. While Earth isn't going to turn into Pandora anytime soon, it's not LV-426 either.


Might as well be swallowing a spider to catch the fly.
How do you figure?


Yeah I know. I guess it's a good think we won't have to do that because at some point "nature will make that decision" and "pull that trigger" for us.
Yeah, and we're all going to die one day, so why even try to stay alive? :rolleyes:

[Mommy2many]

" Yeah, and we're all going to die one day, so why even try to stay alive? :rolleyes:"

I've got nothing better to do with my time at the moment....:)

[Stefan-A]

I've got nothing better to do with my time at the moment....:)
My usual answer is that it beats the alternative.

[Mommy2many]

Actually, that was the first response I was about to type... :)

[Stefan-A]

Oh and that 1984 thing. In the book the state would constantly rewrite history to fit the political situation and destroy all traces of what had been previously been written. My point was that I could have done it that way.

It's a good book. Everyone should read it.

[ConcinusMan]

George Orwell? It's only $9 and free shipping. Confirm the author and I'll order it.

[Stefan-A]

Correct.

[ConcinusMan]

Check this out. Screw the global negative feedback. I think it's awesome. I'd buy that. I want one. :D

**** 'em if they can't take a twisted joke.

Texas sign company destroys tailgate decal of bound woman (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/09/texas-truck-decal-bound-woman-marketing-experiment/2790719/)

[ConcinusMan]

Wow. Written in 1948 though. Apparently 1984 was the far distant future. I just find that peoples ideas of the future back then were pretty outlandish. But it does say "1984 presents a startling and haunting vision of the world, so powerful that it is completely convincing from start to finish"

Convincing, or convincing to people in the 40's and 50's? Was it hard to set aside the fact that 1984 has come and gone and you already know what happened?

Funny because I already have this one but haven't read it yet:. I PM'd you about it. It was a kindle book free for one day only.

The Human Race to the Future: What Could Happen - and What to Do
Berleant, Daniel

[chris-uk]

Convincing, or convincing to people in the 40's and 50's? Was it hard to set aside the fact that 1984 has come and gone and you already know what happened?

The year in the title is irrelevant, just read it as a world 50 years in the future. Obviously, some of the detail in the technology is stuff that's been and gone though, but read past the surface sheen of the story and it's a great book. The principles penned by Orwell have influenced several sci-fi films so it's nice to go back to the source.
I've not read 1984 for a long time (have a copy of it on one of the bookshelves so I might have to add it to the reading pile.

You must also have read Animal Farm (also by Orwell)? To me Animal Farm is his masterpiece book, I read it again last year having not read it since school.

[ConcinusMan]

I have never read a novel in my life. I've tried, I just usually can't follow them but I guess I'm going to now. My main problem is with names. It takes me about 10 episodes even on TV before the characters names even begin to stick. You can see how that would be a problem when reading a novel. I can't usually figure out who's who especially if I don't read it for about a week. I don't usually read anything but non-fiction, scientific American, popular science, biology books, etc. If I can't finish reading a story from beginning to end in one sitting I don't read it.

However, the subject matter of these two books might just be enough to keep me interested so I'll give it a shot.

[ConcinusMan]

12 years ago today. I watched the south tower collapse on live T.V. A day I'll never forget...


http://youtu.be/8Mz0_x7313I

[Stefan-A]

12 years ago I was up late discussing this with a couple of friends, while watching nonstop replays of the events. The consensus was that someone had just signed his own death warrant.

[chris-uk]

I have never read a novel in my life. I've tried, I just usually can't follow them but I guess I'm going to now. My main problem is with names. It takes me about 10 episodes even on TV before the characters names even begin to stick. You can see how that would be a problem when reading a novel. I can't usually figure out who's who especially if I don't read it for about a week. I don't usually read anything but non-fiction, scientific American, popular science, biology books, etc. If I can't finish reading a story from beginning to end in one sitting I don't read it.

However, the subject matter of these two books might just be enough to keep me interested so I'll give it a shot.

Animal Farm is an easy read. It didn't take me much more than an afternoon or an evening to read last time. I seem to remember 1984 being a bit more of a read.

[chris-uk]

12 years ago today. I watched the south tower collapse on live T.V. A day I'll never forget...

I was working in central London, went to the pub for lunch and was stood at the bar ordering a beer and food as the second plane hit. It was on every screen in the pub. I was working in the web team at the time and spent the afternoon posting internal news updates on our intranet because the Internet was grinding to a standstill, we had BBC News on in the press office. News websites struggled to cope with demand.
Visited the site a couple of years ago on honeymoon in NYC, the temporary memorial was quite overwhelming.

[Mommy2many]

The consensus was that someone had just signed his own death warrant.

I watched in horror as the news video showed the second plane crashing into the 2nd tower live. As I spoke to my husband on the phone at the second plane, we were all quickly realizing that this was not an accident. At that point, you could say that not "someone" but some Country or terrorist representatives of such, had just, in essence, declared war upon the United States. Then, we heard about the pentagon and the plane in PA. We all watched the towers fall live from a TV we set up in our lunchroom at the Bank I worked in at the time. Truly a horrific moment in time, leaving much doubt as to safety as we were only 1 hour from this calamity.

[ConcinusMan]

I had just arrived at work for the U.S. Dept. of Veteran's affairs. First one there, turned on breakroom T.V. to a live broadcast and just about had a heart attack. 1 min later south tower fell.


The consensus was that someone had just signed his own death warrant.

And that, they did. Not only Bin Laden but also the Taliban regime in Afghanistan by refusing to turn him over. Honestly i don't think they even knew where he was. Either way, they needed their butts kicked anyway.

[ConcinusMan]

Shattered a weather record today. 100 degrees F (37.8 C) at my house right now. Should warm up another degree or two by 6pm. Monday, rain and 66 F. :(

Supposed to stay in the 80's until after midnight tonight. wow.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like typical Iowa temps.

[Mommy2many]

It's hot here too. 92 degrees, 100 degree heat index. uuuggghhhh....
I couldn't wait to get home, cause my clothing was stuck to me, soaking wet. All of it. I looked like I had been in a sprinkler and all I did was drive the school bus for 2 hours.

[ConcinusMan]

Sounds like typical Iowa temps.

Ultimately we got up to 101 F and 95 F the next day. Average is upper 70's. Cool and drizzly today.

[guidofatherof5]

A yard sale was very good to me today. Bought a Sony BDP-S550 Btu-ray player(no remote) for $2.00 This model is net workable. I programed my Logitech remote and all the functions are available. Did a firmware update and am watching a movie as I type.

[ConcinusMan]

Awesome. I would check your model for recalls or known safety issues though just to be on the safe side.

Recently on Ebay I scored 9 schick hydro 5 razor refills delivered, for half the price they are in the stores. 9 refills lasts me 2 years. They're that good.

Also scored a new cord/brick for my netbook (the old one quit working) for $5 delivered, and a new 9 cell battery for $13 delivered 3yr warranty. I love this battery. My netbook runs 6-7 hours on a single charge!

[guidofatherof5]

Awesome. I would check your model for recalls or known safety issues though just to be on the safe side.


Thanks for the suggestion. No recalls.

[ConcinusMan]

Check it out. Accurate within 20 min or so too, since I calibrated the meter. Not bad for $13 battery. The only issue I have is windows won't let me set the low battery alarm at 1%. Lowest I can go is 3% and the dang thing doesn't die until almost an hour later. keep in mind these batteries have a good 15% reserve so going to 0% doesn't hurt the battery like it normally would hurt a Lithium Ion. At 0% they aren't really completely drained. Likewise, this one doesn't charge completely full either. Still has 6% to go but stops charging anyway for safety.

[ConcinusMan]

Check it out! got this PM today:

"Hi,

I came across a couple of collard lizard pics from Nevada of yours I saved from the web that were posted way back in 2011. I was also able to get very up close to several collareds near Gerlach. I don't know if they're less fearful of humans there or not, but they seem to be. Anyway, I was wondering if you'd let me use the pictures on my website www.Californiaherps.com (http://www.Californiaherps.com) .
I put the photographer's name on and beneath each photo with a link to a page with their email address. If you agree, let me know your name and email, or whatever you want me to put on the photos.

Thanks,
Gary"

Of course, I said yes. What an honor.:)

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice.

[guidofatherof5]

For your viewing pleasure. Here are some of the programs we have to look forward too :D
Feel free to add any I missed.:D

Bigfoot Cajun Ghost Hunters
Swamp Bigfoot Cajun Pawn Stars
Cajun Paranormal Bigfoot Gold Hunters
Paranormal Storage Wars
Cajun Paranormal Storage Pickers
Bigfoot Storage Wars Texas
Amish Mafia Shark Whispers
Naked and afraid - Detroit
Naked and Afraid - Texas
Naked and Afraid - NY
Naked and Afraid -Bigfoot
Naked and Afraid -Paranormal Bigfoot
Naked Cajun Paranormal Ghost Shark
Ghostnadolightningshark
Two-headed Ghostnadolightningbigfootcajunshark

[ConcinusMan]

Check it out! got this PM today:

"Hi,

I came across a couple of collard lizard pics from Nevada of yours I saved from the web that were posted way back in 2011. I was also able to get very up close to several collareds near Gerlach. I don't know if they're less fearful of humans there or not, but they seem to be. Anyway, I was wondering if you'd let me use the pictures on my website www.Californiaherps.com (http://www.Californiaherps.com) .
I put the photographer's name on and beneath each photo with a link to a page with their email address. If you agree, let me know your name and email, or whatever you want me to put on the photos.

Thanks,
Gary"

Of course, I said yes. What an honor.:)

It's there now: Crotaphytus bicinctores - Great Basin Collared Lizard (http://www.californiaherps.com/lizards/pages/c.bicinctores.html)

[ConcinusMan]

Planned obsolescence. A product of the exchange medium we call "money" The result? the impact on the planet and the efficiency of our use of it's resources? well, that goes without saying but I'll say something about it anyway that I've said before.

As long as "money" is used as medium of exchange on this planet, people will do what's profitable, instead of what's right and sustainable. It's easy to blame corporations when the reality is, it is you and I, and our weak minded consumer habits, influenced by advertising and the social engineering that go with it, that is to blame. Wake up. Turn off the TV. Everything you know is WRONG. You and I are to blame for our lack of awareness. Like sheep to the slaughter, we follow blindly and the planet, humanity, and life itself suffers the consequences.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KjTq5BnbxN0#t=227

[ConcinusMan]

Whenever I encounter some pompous *** that says "oh you have a 2009 netbook. I used to have one of those. but now I have the latest ipad. and a new smartphone" I ask "well what happened to your netbook?" they say "nothing, I just threw it away". Need I even say...

These are the same people that protest cutting of a swath of 60 yr old trees. same people that donate money "to save the planet" causes. Same people that buy hemp clothing/products because it's "better for the environment" Am I the only one here that does not think "something is rotten in Denmark" ?

OY VEY!

[ConcinusMan]

The way I got my netbook was I helped a friend move and commented "what a neat little computer". He was like "you want it? It got a virus and I don't know how to fix it. Cant run system recovery because it can't find the hard drive. It boots up fine but then that fake antivirus thing runs. Shop wants more than it's worth to fix it. Only reason I didn't throw it away is because it's just not right to put that kind of waste in a landfill and I haden't gotten around to recycling it".

Immediately I knew what the problem was and knew I could fix it. Virus corrupted the boot sector. Just had to overwrite the boot sector of the drive with "standard" XP boot info, run D2D system recovery, and "viola!". One less computer gets wasted. Thing runs great and i'll probably use it another 4 years. I mean, why must one have the latest when this thing does the job just fine? Best darn free computer I ever got. I like it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aspire-ZG5-Intel-Atom-1-6GHz-Netbook-160GB-Hard-Drive-8-9-inch/370894694155?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D11%26meid%3D1333990581772396457%26pid%3D100 011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D2612767 23967%26

[ConcinusMan]

Speaking of intentionally making stuff to break down..

Just had a multispeed remote controlled fan quit on me. Dang thing is only 3 yrs old. Ridiculous. Fans my parents bought when we were kids lasted 20 years.

I've watched all my favorite brands go to crap over the years. Stuff used to be durable and long lasting, now they're disposable. Sony, Black & Decker, Kitchenaid, LG, the list goes on.

[ConcinusMan]

looks like fall weather is here. After a record breaking high of 101 F last week, We are beginning the downhill slide. Snakes are returning to their dens and the season will soon come to a close. :(

http://i42.tinypic.com/2uf9bbb.jpg

[Stefan-A]

Speaking of intentionally making stuff to break down..

Just had a multispeed remote controlled fan quit on me. Dang thing is only 3 yrs old. Ridiculous. Fans my parents bought when we were kids lasted 20 years.

I've watched all my favorite brands go to crap over the years. Stuff used to be durable and long lasting, now they're disposable. Sony, Black & Decker, Kitchenaid, LG, the list goes on.
Somewhere there's a light bulb that has been burning for something like 110 years.

A company an acquaintance works for almost went under because the stuff they manufactured was too durable. They started making crap and suddenly their customers started ordering more products, spare parts and repairs.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, I get that. Unless people refuse to buy ****** products, nothing will change. and if they do, the companies that make durables, go under. Like I was saying money is a problem. We're never going to approach sustainability and efficiency as long as money is used as a medium of exchange. Until then we do what's profitable, not what's right and good for the planet.

[gibble888]

Yeah, I get that. Unless people refuse to buy ****** products, nothing will change. and if they do, the companies that make durables, go under. Like I was saying money is a problem. We're never going to approach sustainability and efficiency as long as money is used as a medium of exchange. Until then we do what's profitable, not what's right and good for the planet.

It would be easier to choose well made if the shelves werent lined with china SCRAP!!

[ConcinusMan]

Here we go again. 13 people dead. Washington DC shooting: several people and gunman shot dead | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/16/washington-navy-yard-shooting)

[ConcinusMan]

Can't view the video from a U.S. IP address. :mad:

Would it help if I said "bloody hell!" ??

Attenborough on the Yeti Mystery | Blog | Eden Channel (http://eden.uktv.co.uk/blog/article/attenborough-yeti-mystery/)

[ConcinusMan]

Cute

http://i39.tinypic.com/20jnzq1.jpg

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Ta for the video,But :)

[ConcinusMan]

A Natural Law/Resource-Based Economy is to be defined as: “An adaptive socio-economic system actively derived from direct physical reference to the governing scientific laws of nature.”http://i41.tinypic.com/2exn951.jpg

[Stefan-A]

A Natural Law/Resource-Based Economy is to be defined as: “An adaptive socio-economic system actively derived from direct physical reference to the governing scientific laws of nature.”
I'd like to argue that my own crystal / homeopathy / coffee enema / EM-field based socio-economic system is the better choice and far more accurately "derived from direct physical reference to the governing scientific laws of nature".

Self-descriptions are always horse****.

[ConcinusMan]

OK. :D

http://i41.tinypic.com/ie0yoo.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

Starbucks... eat your heart out.

http://i42.tinypic.com/a3l0rt.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

Next in line, get your "grumpy frog" squeak toy at a retailer near you...

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5822561_fbthumbnail.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBkWhkAZ9ds

[ConcinusMan]

hey has anyone here seen the 4 part series "The Men Who Built America" on The History Channel? its about Vanderbilt, J.P. Morgan, John D. Rockefeller, (sp?) Andrew Carnegie and a few others?

i was just wondering because its VERY interesting

Yes, it's very interesting how they built the model that is what we currently call an "economy" when it's really an anti-economy that is designed to enslave the masses and make 1-2% very, very rich. This has happened before in "advanced" ancient human societies/civilizations. They all collapsed when the masses realized they were being enslaved and local natural resources were depleted. "The bubble burst'" so to speak. What makes you think today's society is any different? It is different but only because it's now on a global scale, not just local. Survivors/pioneers of ancient collapsing societies could just move and establish another society in a new area rich in natural resources. Only problem is, we cant just move now. There is no "away" to go to. We would need to another planet, not just another continent. We have reached our peak as a species. There is no way to go from here but down. Denial will get you nowhere. You'll still be on earth. The matter your body is made of is of this earth, and to this earth it will return. The epoch we live in is coming to an end and when it does, earth will be unrecognizable to us, and 10 million or more years later our existence as a species will be nothing more than a "blip" http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/history_of_the_earth/Archean


It's doubtful, considering that they'd need to relocate most of San Francisco, down to the last brick, to restore the habitat.

Even then it won't matter. Millions of cubic tons of ice is melting every year. Soon enough, every brick will be under sea water. The hills east of SF will be nothing more than tiny offshore islands.

I couldn't find the exact post Stefan, but I argued that massive global change and mass extinction was really no big deal in the context of the entire history of life on earth. you argued that is a big deal and told me "don't ignore the cost" or what in took to mean "what was lost" with each mass extinction. You kept saying something to the effect of "you're thinking in geological time again"

You're damn right because it's the only thing that really matters. Our petty lives and even the entire history of our evolution as a species is nothing more than a blink. a mere second in time. You only think in terms of human concerns and time. What's the word for "egocentric" but instead of pertaining to ones self or an individual, you apply it to our species as a whole? I dunno know the word but you're arrogant. But put into context, Our entire species is arrgant. Somehow we're "better" or "superior" We've already forgotten that climate change nearly wiped us out of existence not so long ago. Ego, and Our Egocentric Lives | WTM (http://www.worldtransformation.com/ego/)

[Stefan-A]

You're damn right because it's the only thing that really matters.
To whom?

[infernalis]

To whom?

Precicely, I would like to think that if my grand children would like to one day see let's say the Berrier Reef, that it would still be there for them.

[ConcinusMan]

To whom?

To most people apparently. Otherwise we wouldn't be destroying our ecosystem and leaving the mess for future generations. What do you care if we all extinct? Not going to happen in your lifetime. Instead of feeling sad and upset about what we've done to the planet I take comfort in the fact that nothing we've done will permanently snuff out life. It's just part of another cycle and a new epoch will begin. Also I said before I think at this point there's nothing we can do to halt the 6th mass extinction. It's already well underway and accelerating. We'll be next, but it could take anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand years. By then you and I will be dust and nobody will even remember we existed or remember what we did or didn't do to stop it. I don't know about you but i find that strangely comforting.

[Stefan-A]

To most people apparently.
How about answering the question.

[ConcinusMan]

I did, you just didn't like my answer.

[Stefan-A]

I did, you just didn't like my answer.
Actually, I did. The problem is that either you don't agree with it, or you have a bit of doublethink going on there.

[ConcinusMan]

Whatever that means. "The problem is..." What problem would that be? Not a problem as far as I'm concerned.

[Stefan-A]

Whatever that means. "The problem is..." What problem would that be? Not a problem as far as I'm concerned.
The problem that geological time is irrelevant when the only one that something might matter to doesn't actually experience geological time.

[ConcinusMan]

Good point but geological time is not irrelevant to me because I do not have to actually experience it for it to matter. You think in terms of your lifetime and perhaps a few generations into the future as being the only period of time that matters. I see that short period of time as being insignificant. A mere fraction of a second in a day. I guess that's where we differ.

Like I said, the problem is yours. Not a problem as far as I'm concerned. I see the history and future of life on earth as being bigger and grander that all of us. I see our concern for the present and near future as being petty and insignificant.

Maybe I'm just high. screw it.:p

[Stefan-A]

Good point but geological time is not irrelevant to me because I do not have to actually experience it for it to matter.
Ah, so this is about you.

[ConcinusMan]

Ah, so this is about you.

It's not about any of us, and that's the point.

[Stefan-A]

It's not about any of us, and that's the point.
That's not a point, that's an evasion. You are saying that it's about you ("geological time is not irrelevant to me") and you've been implying that it matters in an objective sense and that it should matter to others.

[ConcinusMan]

http://i44.tinypic.com/2lu2hzb.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

OMG this is just foul. I hope they get convicted in a fair trial and have a long miserable sentence. Kids these days scare the **** out of me. No respect for anyone or anything and don't even think twice about beating someone senseless for a pair of shoes. Makes me sick. Great-grandson & friend arrested for murder of 71-year-old woman | kgw.com Portland (http://www.kgw.com/news/local/71-year-old-woman-killed-in-Cedar-Mill-226615471.html)

[ConcinusMan]

"A psychologist reveals that the richer and more powerful a person is, the less empathy he or she is likely to have for people who are lower in status"

Ya think? gee, thanks for enlightening me, Dr. Obvious.

Why the Rich and Powerful Have Less Empathy | Alternet (http://www.alternet.org/why-rich-and-powerful-have-less-empathy)

[Stefan-A]

Kids these days scare the **** out of me. No respect for anyone or anything and don't even think twice about beating someone senseless for a pair of shoes. Makes me sick.
http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/garbage/criminiy.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

Something that may have gone unnoticed...

If you take a look at a line graph showing the potency and increased frequency of methamphetamine seizures and drug motivated property crimes, you get nearly an identical peak in the same years as this graph. The "meth epidemic" in America began about 1987, reached it's peak around 1996, and tapered off as the 90's came to a close (due largely in part to new pseudoephedrine laws). Coincidence?

Regardless of the statistics you showed me Stefan, I often overhear a group teens in public bragging about beating people senseless or worse, like it's some kind of sport. Like it's perfectly normal and acceptable behavior. Not long ago I was sitting in a park and heard some teens talking in the woods behind me. I glanced over and saw they were just smoking some weed so I ignored them. Next thing I know they start chucking rocks at me, nearly hitting me several times. i stood up and looked their direction and what comes out of their mouths? "Look over hear again and we'll beat you to death". That's when I lifted my shirt to reveal an object in my waistband. They just mumbled to themselves and left.

And it seems teens everywhere I go act like that now. It was rare when I was growing up. Now it seems to be the norm. it's their atttudes toward violence that scares me. They act like it's as normal and acceptable as brushing your teeth.

[ConcinusMan]

It will be interesting to see the violent crime statistics from 2007 to 2013. I'll bet it shows another spike considering this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yb45h69Cweo/T3KMKxFY5PI/AAAAAAAAAiE/DI3VYSnC-XY/s1600/Meth-graph.jpg

Even if it doesn't show a peak, is it because the crimes aren't occuring or is it because they aren't getting caught? In order to specify that a crime was committed by a teen, the suspect must be caught and identified first.

[Stefan-A]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/garbage/scotus_chart.gif

[ConcinusMan]

That's amusing. :D I guess if you're too busy playing world of warcraft to stop and eat or shower you're going to be too busy to go out and beat the snot out of someone in real life.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

That's amusing. :D I guess if you're too busy playing world of warcraft to stop and eat or shower you're going to be too busy to go out and beat the snot out of someone in real life.

I played WoW for 5 years and I still ate and showered AND cared for 100 something garter snakes :D

[mikem]

I played WoW for a little bit over 6 years consecutively, then on and off for a month or two here and there. Finally kicked that habit for good during Cataclysm. Though I did try the 10 days free offer to check out the Pandaren starting area recently. Just couldn't get back into it. Looking forward to trying Hearthstone and can't wait for the Diablo 3 expansion.. oh, and the warcraft movie next year will be all kinds of awesome(i hope)! I did manage to shower and eat during my WoW time though :) Anyway, just wanted to mention I played warcraft, lol!

[ConcinusMan]

I still ate and showered AND cared for 100 something garter snakes :D

Weirdo! :p

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I played WoW for a little bit over 6 years consecutively, then on and off for a month or two here and there. Finally kicked that habit for good during Cataclysm. Though I did try the 10 days free offer to check out the Pandaren starting area recently. Just couldn't get back into it. Looking forward to trying Hearthstone and can't wait for the Diablo 3 expansion.. oh, and the warcraft movie next year will be all kinds of awesome(i hope)! I did manage to shower and eat during my WoW time though :) Anyway, just wanted to mention I played warcraft, lol!

Once cataclysm hit, they had dumbed it down so much so that 10 year olds can play it that it wasn't fun for us anymore. Plus once skyrim came out, me being a huge elder scrolls buff, had all I needed :D I like open world gaming, but prefer PVE and campaigns as opposed to PVP.

[ConcinusMan]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/garbage/scotus_chart.gif

That only shows court cases. How many were booked but district attorney declined to file charges? They only go for a sure thing, and avoid charging influential/rich families that contribute to campaigns, city budgets, etc , trust me. I've seen first hand how charges never materialize when you're the daughter of the Portland city mayor. She was a "druggie friend" of mine years ago. We both got arrested together in 1993. Like myself she was caught red handed with felony possession of dope. She never got charged. Surprise surprise. :rolleyes: What about States where the victim must file charges but they decline to do so? Those crimes never go to court. Many violent crimes don't get reported or the age of the perpetrator is never known.

[ConcinusMan]

Once cataclysm hit, they had dumbed it down so much so that 10 year olds can play it that it wasn't fun for us anymore. Plus once skyrim came out, me being a huge elder scrolls buff, had all I needed :D I like open world gaming, but prefer PVE and campaigns as opposed to PVP.

You might as well speaking a foreign language. I have no idea what you just said. I'm not into gaming and never have been. Saw my younger brother play it though. He has the same big monitor I do but is running dual $300 video cards in crossfire mode and that's just the beginning of the cost. I was only impressed that a video game can look so real. He tried to show me how to play it but all I heard sounded like Charlie brown's teacher. Now if Bill gates explained the nuances of PC programming and what is behind making these games, I would at least understand most of what he said. Tell me how to play it in some obscure and dead native american language and that's about how much i understand how to play.

Metaphorically speaking, I'm like 5 year old driving a sports car after you explain what the pedals do. but ask me how the engine works and i'll show you how to build it.

[mikem]

Once cataclysm hit, they had dumbed it down so much so that 10 year olds can play it that it wasn't fun for us anymore. Plus once skyrim came out, me being a huge elder scrolls buff, had all I needed :D I like open world gaming, but prefer PVE and campaigns as opposed to PVP.

pve > pvp. I think that's because I suck at it! That and it gets repetitive pretty quick. I'd rather be out exploring the land and slaying dragons. Skyrim is good. I'll probably give Elder Scrolls Online a shot when it comes out even though I haven't been following the progress and know next to nothing about it right now.

[ConcinusMan]

I have 0.2 66% dbl het anery and albino which bred together could produce aneries, albinos, normal, and snows

I never knew you could breed two males together to produce anything. what's your secret? :p

[Stefan-A]

The results (concerning snakes) from the 2012 herp owner survey, conducted on the largest (by far) Finnish herp forum. The most common are listed.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2013/snake_statistics_FI.jpg

10/25 garters belonged to me, by the way. The published results had all species of garter lumped together as "Thamnophis sirtalis".

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Now that's funny! Hey Richard they are both female man! What i meant to say was if you breed a male with these same genes you could get all the above!
i never knew you could breed two males together to produce anything. What's your secret? :p

[chris-uk]

The results (concerning snakes) from the 2012 herp owner survey, conducted on the largest (by far) Finnish herp forum. The most common are listed.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2013/snake_statistics_FI.jpg

10/25 garters belonged to me, by the way. The published results had all species of garter lumped together as "Thamnophis sirtalis".

Niche.

[Stefan-A]

Niche.
To say the least. There have been, to my knowledge, 4 domestic clutches since 2005, 3 of them mine.

[ConcinusMan]

Now that's funny! Hey Richard they are both female man! What i meant to say was if you breed a male with these same genes you could get all the above!

Yeah I meant female but typed it wrong. It was too late to edit before I caught it.

__________________________________________________ __________________

:rolleyes: Sounds reasonable:
http://i43.tinypic.com/qx3nv8.jpg

Think about this next time you feel the need to buy a new iphone every freakin year or new anything when there's nothing wrong with the old one:

If we keep doing what we're doing, we'll keep getting what we're getting:

http://gdb.voanews.com/CB26FC5B-325F-46B2-80DC-C10DDC10F76B_mw1024_n_s.jpg
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photography/news-and-events/world-events/clear-cut-logging-33409210.jpg

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I'm still satisfied with my old flip phone! My wife has a smart phone, but i'm too ignorant to use it! Lol!

[Stefan-A]

I've had my current phone since 2009. I've thought about switching just to keep up with the rest of society, but then I always remind myself that most of the new phones that acquaintances have bought in the last couple of years have needed repairs almost right out the box.

[ConcinusMan]

My dad has had the same phone for about 10 years now lol. Pretty soon he won't have a choice but to get a new one just because it won't be compatible with the service. He's like me, once you have one you like and are familiar with, you dread having to learn/program a new one or don't want to end up with one you don't like.

I just bought a pretty decent tracfone touch screen android OS smart phone for $20 slightly used. It's a late 2012 model. Not going to put my service on it though until the battery quits on my current phone (which is going to be pretty soon). I figure heck, might as well get the smart phone for $20 because a new battery for my old phone is $12. I will be recycling the old phone though even though it's just a cheap tracfone. Most clods would just pitch it in a landfill which is ridiculous and unnecessary.

Oh, and those damn plastic 6-pack beverage rings... I can't believe they even still make them. I cut 'em up into little pieces and put them in the recycling bin or I throw them in a fire because..

I like turtles.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KGIvg3lyj4I/UHrZI9vHBrI/AAAAAAAAAGc/qVwed0vcYsA/s1600/6+pack+turtle.jpg

[Stefan-A]

Damn people with leaf blowers just woke me up from a nice dream of me rejoining the military after 15 years, ordering recruits around, talking about knee, foot and elbow pains and crappy gear with a former instructor of mine who had also rejoined, dealing with hostage rescue teams that have problems distinguishing between real situations and exercises, and, get this: quadcopter drones flying around spraying the enemy with fecal matter.

My dreams are the best. But leaf blowers still suck.

[guidofatherof5]

Buddy, you need to lay off the hot sauce before bed.:D

[Stefan-A]

buddy, you need to lay off the hot sauce before bed. :D
Never.

[ConcinusMan]

"quadcopter drones flying around spraying the enemy with fecal matter." Maybe you should submit that idea to the military. it would be quite effective if the payload included flying shrapnel just powerful enough to produce minor scratches, and maybe a live staphylococcus aureus culture. of course, we would have to do away with the biological weapons ban to get away with that. That would be one very prolonged and cruel way to die huh?

I can see the reuters reporter saying "a shot was fired, a scream was heard, and a man was killed by a flying turd" :D

[ConcinusMan]

Skull poses human evolution mystery | News - Home (http://www.wcyb.com/news/Skull-poses-human-evolution-mystery/-/14590844/22488976/-/9kbtoq/-/index.html)

[ConcinusMan]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/sale-trade-adoption/9828d1381866214-2013-redsidided-garter-group-shawns-pics-3-005.jpg



The 2 66% hets are both female sorry for the confusion!

I'll tell you what's confusing. Why do these look like eastern garters? Look at the pattern and neck area. Makes me wonder how many easterns are out there with red on them, represented as "red sided" and how many people are crossing them to true red sided?


Now look at this ery flame eastern
9863

[ConcinusMan]

took this screenshot from a local craigslist ad for reptile books. Poster was asking $10-$20 over amazon prices for each of these books but just take a look...

"when you see it" or "what's wrong with this picture" for herpers...
9864

[Stefan-A]

took this screenshot from a local craigslist ad for reptile books. Poster was asking $10-$20 over amazon prices for each of these books but just take a look...

"when you see it" or "what's wrong with this picture" for herpers...
9864
Poisonous snakes.

[guidofatherof5]

Got a call from a lady in MI. last night. She said she had seen my Tank videos on YouTube and needed some advice on keeping her snapping turtle.
She said she lives in an apartment complex and found the adult turtle in a cardboard box in a dumpster. The turtle is doing fine now and the lady wants to keep it.
I can't believe the cruelty in people.:mad:

[Stefan-A]

I can't believe the cruelty in people.:mad:
I can. People are an endless source of disappointment.

[ConcinusMan]

I expect acts of treachery, cruelty, indifference, selfishness, ignorance, etc ("the worst") from people in general and I'm never disappointed. :cool:

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Nice looking ery flame combo! The red sideds look like pure paritalis to me! These have been line bred for years from scott, jeff, and several other breeders and these were produced from the anery and albino lines!
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/sale-trade-adoption/9828d1381866214-2013-redsidided-garter-group-shawns-pics-3-005.jpg




i'll tell you what's confusing. Why do these look like eastern garters? Look at the pattern and neck area. Makes me wonder how many easterns are out there with red on them, represented as "red sided" and how many people are crossing them to true red sided?


Now look at this ery flame eastern
9863

[CrazyHedgehog]

Got a call from a lady in MI. last night. She said she had seen my Tank videos on YouTube and needed some advice on keeping her snapping turtle.
She said she lives in an apartment complex and found the adult turtle in a cardboard box in a dumpster. The turtle is doing fine now and the lady wants to keep it.
I can't believe the cruelty in people.:mad:

I'm glad she found it then!

[guidofatherof5]

Spammers get out of here., especially you tony, whoever you are :D

15 members and 63 guests
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[guidofatherof5]

Spammers get out of here., especially you tony, whoever you are :D

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And it only gets worse.

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[chris-uk]

Mods must be busy...

[Stefan-A]

Mods must be busy...
Mods don't care, these "users" haven't tried to post anything. The vast majority of them never do.

[infernalis]

Spammers get out of here., especially you tony, whoever you are :D


These software scripts are currently using a new technique of creating a master account ant then cloning it over and over with only minor variations.

Measures are being taken to keep "tony" at bay, even though these server attacks are not generating posts, they are hogging our bandwidth for nonsense.

[Chulio]

Why would they do it and not post?

[infernalis]

Why would they do it and not post?

It's called profile spam. They are hoping that the links they put in their profiles will generate google rankings and business.

Personally, I feel that the marketing scheme is quite ridiculous, who shops online via links on reptile forum profiles?

Yes, a contributing member of the forum who has a reptile related business has the privilege of linking his/her web site, but these are links for completely irrelevant products.

Seems like they put a lot of effort into circumventing registration security measures just to get these dumb links up.

[Chulio]

Thanks for the explanation.

Anything to make a buck is the world we live in.

[guidofatherof5]

Well here's a new one. Never heard of this before. Crazy world and crazy people.

Man Commits Suicide With Chainsaw | KETV Home - KETV Home (http://www.ketv.com/Man-Commits-Suicide-With-Chainsaw/-/9675214/10112608/-/no20hmz/-/index.html)

[ConcinusMan]

The capital Christmas tree made a stop in my city on SAT. It came from a forest near Everett, WA.

Capitol Christmas tree to make Vancouver stop | The Columbian (http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/nov/06/capitol-christmas-tree-to-make-vancouver-stop/)

Talk about a colossal waste of money! It's making the trip by truck from WA state to Washington D.C. Couldn't they find a tree closer to the capital? And if they insist on shipping it that damn far why do it by truck? Good grief that has got to be extremely expensive! Why the heck don't they just find one closer to the capital and ship it by rail? Dumb!

Friggen country is bankrupt and they're sparing no expense on this frivolous bullshit? That just infuriates me to no end.

[CrazyHedgehog]

Well here's a new one. Never heard of this before. Crazy world and crazy people.

Man Commits Suicide With Chainsaw | KETV Home - KETV Home (http://www.ketv.com/Man-Commits-Suicide-With-Chainsaw/-/9675214/10112608/-/no20hmz/-/index.html)
hmmmm.
"a member of the SWAT team fired a non-lethal round at the man. The man then lowered himself onto the chainsaw, killing himself."

soooooo they stunned him and he fell on it?

[infernalis]

hmmmm.
"a member of the SWAT team fired a non-lethal round at the man. The man then lowered himself onto the chainsaw, killing himself."

soooooo they stunned him and he fell on it?






Precisely, They hit him with a bean bag, he fell on the saw & now S.W.A.T. refuses to accept responsibility.

We had a situation here in my town some 10 years ago where a teenage boy "committed suicide" while robbing a store, oddly, the boy had a small caliber pistol, and the bullet hole was huge, and several neighbours of the store heard the rifle shot from the rooftop across the street. Odd?

[ConcinusMan]

Precisely, They hit him with a bean bag, he fell on the saw & now S.W.A.T. refuses to accept responsibility.

That's because they aren't responsible. Wouldn't matter if the beanbag itself had killed him. They were perfectly justified in putting a REAL bullet right between his eyes so the point of how he died is really moot. They tried a non-lethal option in a situation where lethal force was justified. If it didn't work, and killed him anyway. oh well. **** happens. They had to neutralize him one way or the other. He was wielding a deadly weapon for cryin' out loud.

[guidofatherof5]

Christmas season at the T.radix Ranch

The trees are up(inside and out) and they looking awesome. The radio in the kitchen is tuned to the 24 hour Christmas music station. Last week the smell of turkey, ham and pumpkin pies filled the air.
I let Tank sleep in this morning, he was tucked into his blankets in the living room. This morning the smell of something else filled the air.

I think you can finish the story on your own now. :D

[infernalis]

Spammers get out of here., especially you tony, whoever you are :D

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tonyeoviin (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyeoviin.html), tonyeuabff (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyeuabff.html), tonykrsvnv (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonykrsvnv.html), tonyloqamq (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyloqamq.html), tonynvqjgx (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonynvqjgx.html), tonyqjhhnm (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyqjhhnm.html),
tonyrvdgos (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyrvdgos.html), tonyuxztkt (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyuxztkt.html), tonyxvyhvf (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyxvyhvf.html),

Slammed the door on their fingers... until they find a new workaround.

First time in a long time, when you click on "newest member" it's actually someone with a snake.

[guidofatherof5]

Slammed the door on their fingers... until they find a new workaround.

First time in a long time, when you click on "newest member" it's actually someone with a snake.


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//744/Clapping.gif

[RedSidedSPR]

http://youtu.be/YNHXFviVb8I

[guidofatherof5]

Do you need a Christmas pick-me-up? When your out and about wish strangers a Merry Christmas. I've seen many frowns turned into smile with those 2 simple words.
I love this time of the year.
Merry Christmas my Tham. family.

[RedSidedSPR]

I tried that and got some really weird looks.

[guidofatherof5]

I tried that and got some really weird looks.

It wasn't what you said that caused the looks:D Just messing with you.

I get those too. Same looks I get when I hold a door for some people or help someone load their groceries. Kindness is foreign to some people. Never let that stop you though.

[RedSidedSPR]

It wasn't what you said that caused the looks:D Just messing with you.

well it wasn't the bright orange aviators I've been wearing.

[zooplan]

Frohe Weihnachten
Merry Christmas
from Germany
have fun, enjoy live as it is. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDuc-qthw64):D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDuc-qthw64)


(share the link with your friends)

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Do you need a Christmas pick-me-up? When your out and about wish strangers a Merry Christmas. I've seen many frowns turned into smile with those 2 simple words.
I love this time of the year.
Merry Christmas my Tham. family. I bet if I tried that around here Id get a Glasgow Kiss

[guidofatherof5]

I bet if I tried that around here Id get a Glasgow Kiss

I'm guessing that's not a normal kiss.:D

[guidofatherof5]

This afternoon I took my family out to celebrate the Dec. birthdays in our family (3 of them, Gabby, Hailee and Dad) We decided on Famous Dave's for some BBQ.
After being seated we ordered our food and enjoyed some great family time.
It was then a young couple with a baby was seated a few tables away. Our waiter was their waiter. He welcomed them and the said "Oh, a baby (now looking at the mom) did it hurt?
Did it hurt! what the heck was wrong with that guy. It took all we had not to fall out of our chairs laughing.:D

[guidofatherof5]

It's a sad day here at the Ranch. In a few hours our dog Lucy will be euthanized. She's a large dachshund mix. Friday we came home from lunch to find her back legs paralyzed. She has had back problems in the past but nothing like this. She saw her Vet. today and was diagnosed with a calcified disk. She has no control of her bladder or bowel. She's not an old dog and has only been with us for about 5 years. My girls are not taking this well but understand what has to be done. Please keep our family and Lucy in your thoughts and prayers.

[ConcinusMan]

And it only gets worse.

26 members and 52 guests
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mubo (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/mubo.html), neroEvova (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/neroevova.html), pcsutombha (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/pcsutombha.html), Piorjsudib (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/piorjsudib.html), Piornuevva (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/piornuevva.html), RessClenearge (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/ressclenearge.html), rickymar81 (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/rickymar81.html)+,
Scammasex (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/scammasex.html), serfumpgesquedtw (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/serfumpgesquedtw.html), tonyaownfp (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyaownfp.html), tonyavlpyk (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyavlpyk.html), tonyhjnjsd (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyhjnjsd.html), tonyloqamq (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyloqamq.html),
tonypscleu (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonypscleu.html), tonyqjhhnm (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyqjhhnm.html), tonyqmxcte (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyqmxcte.html), tonyrrkzxm (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonyrrkzxm.html), tonywkflzw (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/tonywkflzw.html), Uncooretrem (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/uncooretrem.html), Unloamblooday (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/unloamblooday.html),

Yeah "Tony" has been busy and we can't seem to shake this "guido" character either. :D

[ConcinusMan]

It's a sad day here at the Ranch. In a few hours our dog Lucy will be euthanized. She's a large dachshund mix. Friday we came home from lunch to find her back legs paralyzed. She has had back problems in the past but nothing like this. She saw her Vet. today and was diagnosed with a calcified disk.

:( I know how Lucy feels. I have the same problem in 4 places. much of the time I can't feel my left fingers and when it's at it's worst my left hand is useless. One of my dogs just went through something similar. But the paralysis is often temporary trauma to the nerve even though the disk disease remains. My little rufus jumped off the couch couldn't walk for a month but he's fine now. I almost gave up on him and him put down. So sorry about Lucy, Steve. :(

[BLUESIRTALIS]

So Sorry to hear about Lucy!
It's a sad day here at the Ranch. In a few hours our dog Lucy will be euthanized. She's a large dachshund mix. Friday we came home from lunch to find her back legs paralyzed. She has had back problems in the past but nothing like this. She saw her Vet. today and was diagnosed with a calcified disk. She has no control of her bladder or bowel. She's not an old dog and has only been with us for about 5 years. My girls are not taking this well but understand what has to be done. Please keep our family and Lucy in your thoughts and prayers.

[slipknot711]

im so sorry about Lucy :(

[guidofatherof5]

Lucy is gone.
My daughter Molly(15) showed great strength of character in dealing with this situation. She was closest to Lucy and stayed with her friend to the end.

[indigoman]

Sorry to read of your loss Steve, The Norton family send our sympathies.

[mikem]

Sorry to hear about Lucy :( It's really hard losing our furry friends.

[gibble888]

So sorry to hear.:(

[ConcinusMan]

Let me be clear... it was the second sentence^^^ I "liked". ;) Any dogs I've ever had to have put down, I took them in myself. As hard as it is to do that, I want my face to be the last familar one they see. The way I see it, it's the most unselfish thing to do. Putting them down out of love instead of keeping them around suffering because you can't stand to see them go. I think people that do that, keeping them around suffering, are selfish. Screw how you feel about losing them. They're suffering. If you truly love your dog, you will have them put down if the only life they have left will be lived suffering.

[guidofatherof5]

I get a lot of channels with my cable package but only use a handful. Yesterday, I took the time to cruise all the channels available.
It appears all the channels are offering the same load of _________ . Different names for the shows but it's all the same.
I kept saying to myself "Who gives a crap"
Please give me something that stimulates my brain, something that makes me better as a human.
All this stuff does is lowers my IQ and makes me cynical about the rest of humanity.

[slipknot711]

i like crime shows lol. but discovery i can be a place to learn some cool stuff

[Chulio]

Steve I agree with you 100%
I watch about 7 channels and use Apple TV to watch old shows I liked as a kid or never saw the first time around. I have a rule that if a show is just to stupid I do not watch it. There are so many shows that show how the country is just going downhill fast. I'm sure I sound like an old man but it is sad to see the over the top reality shows where people will do anything to get their 15 minutes.

it used to be if you did something really mean, dumb or bizarre you paid the price but now you get your own show or on another reality show. To each his own I guess. I with they had A la carte packages

Sorry to hear about your dog. I bet there were lots of good times spent with her and the family


Jimi

[guidofatherof5]

Every month I pay my cell phone bill, I get upset. I have to pay for far more voice minutes then I use. I use Sprint and pay $35 a month.
The other day I found a cell service company tailor made for me. Looks like my bill will be dropping to under $20.00 a month. If you're in the same boat as me when it comes to paying for more then you use send me a PM and I'll give you the info.

[gregmonsta]

Where's the Jan photo comp? :P

[Stefan-A]

Where's the Jan photo comp? :P
Up. Got the theme from last months winner a few minutes ago.

[ConcinusMan]

Every month I pay my cell phone bill, I get upset. I have to pay for far more voice minutes then I use. I use Sprint and pay $35 a month.

Wow. a friend of mine in california got suckered into 3 year contracts at $65/month for unlimited everything because he was fixated on the per minute rates of the different plans, and initial cost of a phone, instead of looking at the big picture so they suckered him into unlimited when he uses only perhaps around 45 talk minutes per month. Been paying that rate for years and barely uses his phone. I told him he's nuts he's getting ripped off big time. I use more minutes than that, perhaps 150-250 and I only have to pay $19 /month, no contract to get unlimited everything including data/web browsing. I did recently buy a new fancy touch screen phone for under $100 that can do all that but I still don't use it for web browsing or email. All the minutes I need are costing me about $10 , about every other month and unused minutes roll over for 90 days from the date of the last airtime card I put on it. In other words, I'm probably using more than you are but I don't have a bill due every month. I pay only as I need it. About $10 every other month.

Just a tracfone and this very capable touch screen phone, the tracfone LG 840 G, was only $48 with the case and I love it. Nice phone. Looks and feels expensive but it's not. If you don't live on the phone texting and browsing the web all the time tracfone/pay as you go, is the way to go and even if you do use heavily and browse, $19/month will do.

http://i43.tinypic.com/95wtab.jpg

[Chulio]

Sounds like it fits your need perfectly. My two sisters have the same phone as you

I pay $50 unlimited everything and I use it as it is my office for for my Recording studio and music lessons. It is also synced with the 4 different mac's I work on at the studio, lesson rooms and home. The main reason I got the iPhone was I get lots of voicemails and I do not have to call to get them. I just listen to them on the phone. I was tired of calling my voice-mail constantly to get caught up.

I am a techno geek because of the music business side of my job but I really do not like talking on the phone. I leave it in the car when I go to stores and I never text when I am talking to someone. It is my lifeline for bringing home the bacon $$$ though.

[chris-uk]

I'd heard that you get badly stung on long, expensive mobile phone contracts in the States. We can get pretty much unlimited everything for about £15 on some networks with a two year contract. I currently pay £10/mth on a 30 day rolling contract, it gives me more calls and data than I use. To get that price I bought the phone outright so that I didn't have to sign up for a two year contract, the Nexus 5 is a top notch smartphone and cost less than £300 to buy. To get it free on a contract I would have been paying £25/mth more for two years - so over the life of the contract I'd have paid twice as much and with no flexibility to change network if a better deal comes along.

[ConcinusMan]

it's the same with broadband over there. Low prices and a lot of competition. Providers here are essentially a monoply. Very limited. in fact, there's only one choice of provider at my address and they charge nearly $70 a month for 1.2 Gb /second cable broadband internet. It's that or 4g mobile web for the same price but I can't get reception at home. gotta go half a mile west. it's ridiculous. Used to be able to get 12-16 gb/sec for that price.

[guidofatherof5]

Just got my first bill with Ting.com $18 for last month and I used more minutes then I usually use, otherwise my bill would have been $12. They only charge the surcharges that are mandated by law. With Sprint my surcharges were around $10 a month, this month $3
This is just the kind of cell provider I've been looking for.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah a lot of people don't realize they don't have to pay much because these providers/rates, whatever aren't usually well advertised. If they were, they wouldn't be that cheap. Also, I think they just see the price of the phone they want @ $600 without a contract (unlocked) but only $99 (locked to that provider only) with contract so they end up trapped in a contract even though you would better off in the long run just paying the full price for an unlocked one.. Even those locked ones, when your contract is up, they have to unlock it for you if you request it. Then that phone can be used with almost any provider, even prepaid. Break your contract before it's up and they bill you full price for the phone. Don't pay it, and they'll turn it into a brick remotely, rendering it useless.

But I still think I'm getting a better deal with prepaid/pay as you go because if I use a lot of minutes, I can always buy an airtime card when I need it, and skip paying for several months if I don't use a lot of minutes. Beats having having to pay every month or they shut it off. I mean, look at this, you can get android prepaid phone (locked to tracfone or net10 only) for 60 bucks now. Used to be you couldn't touch an android for less than several hundred dollars without a contract. This phone, you just buy a 120 minute card for $20 and you get 360 minutes, 360 texts, and 360 mb of data and unused minutes roll over for 3 months. If that isn't enough for you well, maybe you are better off with unlimited and a monthly bill but I sure as heck wouldn't use all that in a month.

Amazon.com: ZTE Valet Android Prepaid Phone (TracFone): Cell Phones & Accessories (http://www.amazon.com/ZTE-Valet-Android-Prepaid-TracFone/dp/B00FM7R1WG/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t)

[ConcinusMan]

Invisible Snake, if you want to sell that melanistic eastern I suggest you clear your inbox. Tried to send my phone number but your PM storage quota is full.

[ConcinusMan]

0.1 2012 Granite Checkered - $150.00 (Prerfers pinks to be left in cage or fed in a container)
0.1 2012 Super Pastel Checkered- $200.00 (Prerfers pinks to be left in cage or fed in a container other times eats right off Tongs)
0.1 2012 High Red Line Nebraska Albino Plains- $150.00
0.1 Adult Albino Checkered- $100.00 (Just out of Brumation-ready for your Male)
1.0 2012 ("New Strain") Kansas Albino Red-Sided- $125.00
0.1 Sub-Adult Chicago Eastern- $50.00

Not for sale people, they're all mine now. No touchy! :mad:

No, not really mine but at least I will get to have them for a little while. :p

[sasmon]

Someone might be smoking a bit too much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D67kmFzSh_o

[guidofatherof5]

I'm not getting lazy, just trying to teach a old dog a few new tricks. You might have noticed a few of my post aren't sporting my usual comic sans font. Instead they are the default font.
This issue is me trying learning to use my tablet (Tmax) When I'm at work I check in on the forum but haven't learned how to change the font style or size. I can highlight my text but can seem to figure out what to do next, as everything I try causes me to lose the highlighted area. I'm also converting myself to a android smartphone.
I've never felt technologically challenged until now.
No more flip phones for this guy:D

[chris-uk]

Most of my forum posts are from an Android phone Steve. Formatting on a touchscreen and copying chunks of text are trickier than on a PC when you have a convenient mouse and can quickly switch tabs and have ctrl-c/ctrl-v keyboard shortcuts...
But the convenience of being able to do my most frequent activities on the phone is a convenience that makes up for the limitations.

But as you can see above, I can still select text and use the wysiwyg toolbars to add some format. Long press on the text of your post to get your text select tool up, select the text, then hit the bold button in the wysiwyg menu. Sometimes it's easier to close the keyboard to make scrolling up to the menu easier.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks Chris.

[ConcinusMan]

"and copying chunks of text are trickier than on a PC when you have a convenient mouse and can quickly switch tabs and have ctrl-c/ctrl-v keyboard shortcuts..."

I don't think I would have a problem with that being how I learned to use PC's before Windows and before a mouse became a "standard equipment" input device. I've actually unplugged the mouse on modern PC''s and was quite surprised that it all came right back to me, how to get along without a mouse. Like riding a bike I guess.

[ConcinusMan]

If pet store signs were honest....

http://i60.tinypic.com/2zppe78.jpg
/
Here's a bit of trivia for you. Do you know why they are called "Petco" ? They started out as a petroleum products/chemicals company.

[ConcinusMan]

Therein lies the fallacy. You can't smoke "too much". It's impossible. Anything beyond enough to have an affect, does nothing more. The only way it can be "too much" is if high doses are ingested orally, and even if you do overdose it's just psychologically uncomfortable, not physically dangerous, but that's way off topic.

[Stefan-A]

Here's a bit of trivia for you. Do you know why they are called "Petco" ? They started out as a petroleum products/chemicals company.
Actually, they started out as a veterinary supplies business, under the name UPCO (United Pharmaceutical Company).

[ConcinusMan]

"Actually, they started out as a veterinary supplies business, under the name UPCO (United Pharmaceutical Company)." Yeah, same thing I read but that was just a subsidiary of petco which was a parent company dealing in petroelum products/chemicals and now their ONLY business is those pet stores.. At least that's how I understood it.

[Stefan-A]

"Actually, they started out as a veterinary supplies business, under the name UPCO (United Pharmaceutical Company)." Yeah, same thing I read but that was just a subsidiary of petco which was a parent company dealing in petroelum products/chemicals and now their ONLY business is those pet stores.. At least that's how I understood it.
Actually, it was founded as UPCO and changed its name to Petco 14 years later.

[infernalis]

......cool........

[-MARWOLAETH-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbvbQPq4LXk

what a beast of an advert

[chris-uk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbvbQPq4LXk

what a beast of an advert

I felt really bad yesterday cheering for the French to win...

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I felt really bad yesterday cheering for the French to win...
Haha luckily Ive got family from from france and ireland so im guaranteed a win :p

[chris-uk]

Haha luckily Ive got family from from france and ireland so im guaranteed a win :p

If I look far enough back I've got both Welsh and Scottish blood. However, I fear I'll be loosing the Scottish blood in September when the divorce/referendum results come in.
Saying that, when it comes to the rugby I'm pure England.

[guidofatherof5]

For the last 12 years I've been driving a 15 passenger 1 ton Ford van. With 356,000 miles on it and at 10 mpg it was time to do something different.
Meet the newest member to the T. radix Ranch. This 2000 Subaru Outback is in good shape should serve my family and the Ranch well.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/outback.jpg

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Congrats steve! That looks like it's in great shape!
for the last 12 years i've been driving a 15 passenger 1 ton ford van. With 356,000 miles on it and at 10 mpg it was time to do something different.
meet the newest member to the t. Radix ranch. this 2000 subaru outback is in good shape should serve my family and the ranch well.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/outback.jpg

[chris-uk]

For the last 12 years I've been driving a 15 passenger 1 ton Ford van. With 356,000 miles on it and at 10 mpg it was time to do something different.
Meet the newest member to the T. radix Ranch. This 2000 Subaru Outback is in good shape should serve my family and the Ranch well.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/outback.jpg


About time you retired the old van, it must be different driving the Subaru (even if it is one of the more wallowing estate (sorry, station wagon) models). Not sure if this model comes with the turbocharged Boxer 4 engine, if it does they're good engines and even with the turbo will get you more than 10mpg. :)

[mikem]

I recently retired an older vehicle for a newer one. Feels good :) Enjoy!

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Hey Mike your cars pretty good on gas so we might have to take it on some herping adventures this year! lol.
I recently retired an older vehicle for a newer one. Feels good :) Enjoy!

[mikem]

yea, that's fine, maybe i won't get car sick driving lol!

[ConcinusMan]

Anybody going? Maybe we could carpool? I dunno.

http://i59.tinypic.com/qqzhw2.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

I will be there Sunday all day if anyone cares.(and possibly a few hours on SAT) I'll be there if you don't care lol. A BP python breeder I know in Vancouver, WA will have a table there. I'll probably bring my mt. kings and even one of my (Steves) Albino red sided just to display. What's a BP table without a few oddballs anyway. I'll be wearing a bright green tie-dyed Grateful Dead shirt, hard to miss.

[guidofatherof5]

Get some photos for the forum. Please.

[guidofatherof5]

About time you retired the old van, it must be different driving the Subaru (even if it is one of the more wallowing estate (sorry, station wagon) models). Not sure if this model comes with the turbocharged Boxer 4 engine, if it does they're good engines and even with the turbo will get you more than 10mpg. :)

Boxer(2.5L) but no turbo. I feel like I'm sitting on the ground driving this thing. Been averaging 19 mpg in town but that should improve once I get in the best operating shape. I can't believe someone would own such a fine machine and not do proper maintenance. I'm guessing it will cost me around $300 to do all the fluid, filters and parts needed. Once I get a service baseline things will be better.;)

[Mommy2many]

Nice looking car!

[ConcinusMan]

Get some photos for the forum. Please.

Of course. And i will be there both days. SAT (tomorrow) until 2pm and all day on Sunday.

[jwolfe152]

I don't know if anyone has seen this or not but i found it and thought it was interesting Exclusive: Photographs Expose Russian-Trained Killers in Kiev - The Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/30/exclusive-photographs-expose-russian-trained-killers-in-kiev.html) it ha to do with some of the things going on in Ukraine.

[guidofatherof5]

Aprils Fools Prank 2014

A can of cat food? I think not. What we have here is a can of human tuna with a cat food label over the original label. I took this can and a box of crackers into my classroom(after school day care) While my students were enjoying their after school treat my son and I sat down to enjoy ours. We said nothing and eventually everyone else was whispering "they're eating cat food" Finally one of the older kids spoke up stating "that's gross, how can you eat that"
Now all the students chimed in about the situation. At the height of the complaints I simply stood up and peeled the label off revealing the joke played on them.
They all took it very well and had a good time with it. As their parents picked them up they quickly told them of the joke played on them.
All this for a $1.00

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/cat_food_prank.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Do you need brake pads for your vehicle and want high quality ceramic pads cheap?

I just purchased Wagner Thermoquiet disc pads for the front and rear of my new/used vehicle(doesn't need them but will in the future and at this price they can sit on a shelf)

I spent $60 total from Amazon and received free shipping with Amazon Prime.
Wagner is rebating me $30 on a Visa card.
My final cost is $30 for the 4 sets of pads( 4 @ $7.50)

The cheapest non-ceramic pads out there aren't even that cheap.
Thought I would pass along the savings idea.

[jwolfe152]

I wish you can a secret camera i would love to see the kids reactions lmao hell i bet that would be a big video on YouTube if ya done it lol with parents permission of course never know who might call a lawyer over a joke

[Mommy2many]

Ok, did anyone hear about the "Snake on the train"? It's in Switzerland and it was a Garter!

'A 20-inch snake slithered into a Swiss passenger train causing complete chaos; 450 passengers were evacuated because of this guy before police finally captured it,' 'GMA' reported.

Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2595189/Snake-train-All-450-passengers-evacuated-animal-let-loose-Swiss-public-transport.html) reports the snake was spotted on an early-morning train. It was set to travel from Bern to Basel on Switzerland's main railway.The Bern police eventually caught the slippery sucker in a ventilation shaft on the train. Luckily, garter snakes aren't venomous.

It's pretty odd to find one in Switzerland - they're native to North America. SnakeBytesTV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUQTevDXlwk) explains, 'They're the most distributed reptile in North America, and the only snake that inhabits Alaska.'

That's why authorities think a passenger brought the snake on the train as a pet, and it got loose. If only Samuel L. Jackson had been there ...

[jwolfe152]

That's great

[jwolfe152]

Btw shouldn't that be in the thread for herps in the media? Shane on you lol j/k

[guidofatherof5]

Btw shouldn't that be in the thread for herps in the media? Shane on you lol j/k

Your Shane on you comment would have had more affect if it had a photo to go with it.:D

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/shane.jpg

[jwolfe152]

That's a little harsh. don't make Steve mad :eek: