Its oh so quiet Shh Shh

[ProXimuS]

What a nice pic! That's really cool that you get to watch her every year:)

[MCwyo]

Thanks! I'm always able to pick her out, 1 because she has a notch in her right ear, 2 because she is pretty much the only doe I can get this close to. She will just kinda hang out with me. There are plenty of bucks I see year after year, and they are super easy to pick out because of their unique antlers. I haven't gone out at all yet this year, as I usually wait until Dec./Jan.... don't know if I'll get time to this year though because we are trying to move :(

[Chulio]

7519
Here is a little fawn that walked out in front of me. We both were startled but I just stayed still and it just looked at me for about 10 minutes. I have watched him grow all year and his mom is always near.

[MCwyo]

Here's hoping 3rd time's a charm... We'll find out the news tomorrow on our most recent house offer... hoping & p


K', so I was litterally in the middle of typing this and I just got a call from my realator and WE"VE GOT A CONTRACT!!!! Going right now to sign their counter offer & accept, I'm so excited I'm shaking!! YAY!!!

[EasternGirl]

What a pretty deer...does she just let you come right up to her, MC? My son loves to watch for deer when we are driving on back roads around here. My friend had a family of deer that would come out at night and hang out in his suburban neighborhood on the front lawns! It was crazy the first time I saw it! Nice pic of your deer too, Jimi.

[EasternGirl]

I have math class on my birthday. I could think of a few things that would be much worse on my birthday...like being in the hospital with a stomach virus...but math is def on the top of the things that I do not wish to do on my birthday. If you could see me now...I am giving a big old raspberry to math :p.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I love math test as long as it's not me taking it.:p
I wish you the best of luck and hope it's an easy test.

[ProXimuS]

So, I had a dream the other night that I was talking to someone online, and telling them I was into garter snakes and they said "They're actually called gardener snakes, but that's really cool."

Haha weird...

[Stefan-A]

So, I had a dream the other night that I was talking to someone online, and telling them I was into garter snakes and they said "They're actually called gardener snakes, but that's really cool."

Haha weird...
This is the internet, it's not weird at all. Make a factually correct statement and I'll guarantee you that someone will try to correct you.

[Light of Dae]

So, I had a dream the other night that I was talking to someone online, and telling them I was into garter snakes and they said "They're actually called gardener snakes, but that's really cool."

Haha weird...


You know you love this snake forum when it invades your dreams lol

Oh and I'd be temped to call that a Thamnophis nightmare lol where their common name of Garter would be dumb'd down to suit the general public who already call them Gardeners. lol and everyone would feed crickets hahaha
*add cheezy scary music here*

[Light of Dae]

This is the internet, it's not weird at all. Make a factually correct statement and I'll guarantee you that someone will try to correct you.

"Make an actual correct fact statement"
Lmao
I couldn't help it! I had too. I had to TRY to correct something, anything about that. This is the internet after all.


Don't mind me..
Think I've fallen off my rocker n dropped some of my marbles as well.

[ConcinusMan]

This is the internet, it's not weird at all. Make a factually correct statement and I'll guarantee you that someone will try to correct you.

Tell me about it. I've had a very knowlegeable herpetologist insist to me that baby gopher snakes and adult garter snakes eat beetles, grasshoppers, etc. He just refuses to believe that they don't. This "fact" that they eat insects, crickets, etc. is in many books out there. He's convinced they do because he finds road-killed garters with undigested beetles shells in their guts. He never even considered that the snakes where he lives feed heavily on toads. (and baby gopher snakes feed on gut-loaded lizards) It's the damn toads/lizards that eat beetles, not the snakes. So, I challenged him to find one single photo or video documenting that they eat insects/beetles. You won't find one. Not one single photo or video because it doesn't happen.

[ConcinusMan]

Today's wisdom: Our lives are like a roll of toilet paper. We're either on a roll, or taking crap from some a-hole.:D

[EasternGirl]

Well, I would conclude that he is not so knowledgeable after all...lol. Emily, that is hysterical about your dream! Love it! My son and I went out for an amazing dinner at Olive Garden for my birthday...after math class...it was awesome. He gave me little slippers with dog prints and dog bones on them in my favorite color, purple. My mother is getting me some biker boots I want...and my ex-husband is going to give me money to get my snake tattoo. Yipee! Thanksgiving was low-key. I did feed all the babies. Now I am Black Friday shopping online...Marnie does not go anywhere on Black Friday...but there are some good deals online.

[ConcinusMan]

I woke up cussing in my sleep one day. I was chewing somebody out about feeding their garters crickets.:rolleyes:

[mustang]

i did too once :)

[Greg'sGarters]

I once woke up, was too tired to get up, but I had to. I decided it would be a good idea to kick the bed with my legs (while laying down) to thrust my upper body upwards. So I raised my legs, kicked down, and felt this TERRIBLE, IMMENSE PAIN in my heel. I looked at my heel and it was dripping blood!!! I had left the needle nose pliers on my bed after cleaning out my dirty snapping turtle filter. :eek: Ouch!!! Never took them off my bed. Somehow they had pointed up though, still can't figure that out. I wasn't sleeping but I definitely was cussing!!! lol

[guidofatherof5]

A snapping turtle filter. Now, where does that hook up on the turtle?:D

[Greg'sGarters]

He's got his leg caught on the intake pipe a few times. I added a strainer and he hasn't since though. He's about as big as your biggest snapper.

[guidofatherof5]

He's got his leg caught on the intake pipe a few times. I added a strainer and he hasn't since though. He's about as big as your biggest snapper.

I only have 1, Tank and he's 18.40 lbs with a carapace length of 10.75 inches Tell me about yours. Please.

[Greg'sGarters]

I only have 1, Tank and he's 18.40 lbs with a carapace length of 10.75 inches Tell me about yours. Please.

Oh wow, didn't know he was that big. Mine doesn't have a name. I got him from a friend who caught him as a baby in the wild, and raised him up and wanted to release him back into the wild but I stopped him (being that he was already adjusted to captivity). Mine's carapace length is 6 inches and weighs 1.5lbs. He loves to bite stuff! I have 5 others, 2 subadult/juveniles and 3 hatchlings.

[Invisible Snake]

LiveLeak.com - Anaconda Snake Pukes Out A Cow In A Jungle River (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ecc_1353704647)

Anaconda regurgitating a cow

[Stefan-A]

A newborn calf, provided that it's not a goat or a dog or a partially digested capybara.

[Invisible Snake]

FaunaClassifieds (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361101)

[ConcinusMan]

What's that link for? It just brings me to their log in page.

[Invisible Snake]

FaunaClassifieds (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361101)

I copied and pasted the post..

Garden Snakes are dangerous

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS...

Garden Snakes also known as Garter Snakes (Thamnophissirtalis) can be dangerous. Yes, grass snakes, not rattlesnakes. Here's why.

A couple in Sweetwater, Texas had a lot of potted plants. During a recent cold spell, the wife was bringing a lot of them indoors to protect them from a possible freeze.

It turned out that a little green garden grass snake was hidden in one of the plants. When it had warmed up, it slithered out and the wife saw it go under the sofa.

She let out a very loud scream.

The husband, who was taking a shower, ran out into the living room naked to see what the problem was. She told him there was a snake under the sofa.

He got down on the floor on his hands and knees to look for it. About that time the family dog came and cold-nosed him on the behind. He thought the snake had bitten him, so he screamed and fell over on the floor.

His wife thought he had had a heart attack, so she covered him up, told him to lie still and called an ambulance.

The attendants rushed in, would not listen to his protests, loaded him on the stretcher, and started carrying him out.

About that time, the snake came out from under the sofa and the Emergency Medical Technician saw it and dropped his end of the stretcher. That's when the man broke his leg and why he is still in the hospital.

The wife still had the problem of the snake in the house, so she called on a neighbor who volunteered to capture the snake. He armed himself with a rolled-up newspaper and began poking under the couch.. Soon he decided it was gone and told the woman, who sat down on the sofa in relief.

But while relaxing, her hand dangled in between the cushions, where she felt the snake wriggling around. She screamed and fainted, the snake rushed back under the sofa.

The neighbor man, seeing her lying there passed out, tried to use CPR to revive her.

The neighbor's wife, who had just returned from shopping at the grocery store, saw her husband's mouth on the woman's mouth and slammed her husband in the back of the head with a bag of canned goods, knocking him out and cutting his scalp to a point where it needed stitches.

The noise woke the woman from her dead faint and she saw her neighbor lying on the floor with his wife bending over him, so she assumed that the snake had bitten him. She went to the kitchen and got a small bottle of whiskey, and began pouring it down the man's throat.

It was at this point that the police arrived.
Breathe here...

They saw the unconscious man, smelled the whiskey, and assumed that a drunken fight had occurred. They were about to arrest them all, when the women tried to explain how it all happened over a little garden snake!

The police called an ambulance, which took away the neighbor and his sobbing wife.

Now, the little snake again crawled out from under the sofa and one of the policemen drew his gun and fired at it. He missed the snake and hit the leg of the end table. The table fell over, the lamp on it shattered and, as the bulb broke, it started a fire in the drapes.

The other policeman tried to beat out the flames, and fell through the window into the yard on top of the family dog who, startled, jumped out and raced into the street, where an oncoming car swerved to avoid it and smashed into the parked police car.

Meanwhile, neighbors saw the burning drapes and called the fire department. The firemen started raising the fire ladder when they were halfway down the street. The rising ladder tore out the overhead wires and knocked out the power and telephones in a ten-square city block area, but they did manage to get the fire out.

Time passed! Both men were discharged from the hospital, the house was repaired, the dog came home, the police acquired a new car and all was right with their world.

A while later they were watching TV and the weatherman announced a cold snap for that night. The wife asked her husband if he thought they should bring in their plants for the night.

And that's when he shot her.

[ConcinusMan]

That's hilarious!

[Steveo]

I moved my milk snakes over to the rack with my king a few weeks ago. They were starting to outgrow the 20L they shared and I figured it'd be best to split them up before one tried to eat the other.

Anywho, they seemed to be enjoying themselves as they did before (mostly hiding, but making an appearance around sunset) for about a week when my cat alerted me to something around the baseboard heater in the living room (which is not even turned on); I saw the tail of a milk snake flash through a gap before it disappeared. This was around 11 on Thanksgiving and I spent the next hour tearing apart the heating unit but I couldn't find it. I left the pieces on the floor and went to bed, figuring the cat would probably find the snake before I would.

Two days later I'm on the other side of the snake room, cleaning the fish tank. I look through the empty tank the milk snakes used to live in to see the garter tank. I see a wire that seems to be out of place, so I finish up what I'm doing and go to check it out. I walk over and find the milk snake, watching me with solid black eyes, unflinching. It's peeking out of the top drawer of my dresser so I scoop it up and put it in with the other milk.

I don't know how it got out in the first place. The gap between the tub and the shelf above is less than 1/8", but I can't see the back very well. I think I'll add a shim in back to make sure it's flush before trying it again.

[ConcinusMan]

There shouldn't be any kind of gap.:cool:

[Steveo]

There shouldn't be any kind of gap.:cool:

I know, but I bought it second-hand. I didn't know it at the time but the guy was a royal breeder; he custom built the racks with the idea that a bulbous head can't fit through a slight gap. I had been waiting for my snakes to get bigger before moving them over, but I guess I didn't wait long enough.

[ConcinusMan]

... with the idea that a bulbous head can't fit through a slight gap.

If I only had a dime for every time that the owner of an escaped snake said that. ;)

[ProXimuS]

7575

tehe:p

[ConcinusMan]

Good one. Have you seen the video that the picture was taken from?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S2AD_XXzC8

Still gotta type the video codes in manually. The damn insert video function still doesn't work!

[ProXimuS]

lol Cute:p Dumb question: They put him like that right...? He couldn't really just do that on his own could he?:o

[ConcinusMan]

lol Cute:p Dumb question: They put him like that right...?

I'm going to go out on a limb here *sarcasm* and say yes. I don't see a top hat and cane, and I sure as hell have never seen a frog take the bus.

[ConcinusMan]

I just watched this documentary on Netflix. It's a good one. Not boring at all. Grabbed my attention and kept it. A real eye-opener. If you get an opportunity, I recommend that you watch it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4fG9mR8UEc

[angrygamer]

Why is it that when I go into a subforum I can see the topic titles, and the beginning of the topics? It looks real sloppy.

[EasternGirl]

Hey Travis! Where have you been? Good to see you on the forum. That story about the "garden snake" was hysterical!

[Invisible Snake]

Hey do any of you get burnt out from posting?

[EasternGirl]

Lol...sometimes I feel like it is hard to catch up and post replies to all of the posts that I want to reply to...but for the most part, I enjoy coming on here everyday and interacting with my friends.

[angrygamer]

Hi Marnie! I've been busy, but things have been going very well with Glyph so I haven't really needed to the forum, but I lurk a lot.

I am having one little thing, but I'll address it in that forum.

[ConcinusMan]

Wow. All kinds of cool stuff here: Reptile Supplies (http://www.reptipro.com/reptile-supplies.html)

[InsanePirateDragon]

Its been a long week since I was last on, gods...

Black Friday is indeed dangerous and the bruise I have across my jaw is proof of it all...

My mother is very thankful that I can take a punch

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i234/InsanePirateDragon/A00DF1DF-9004-4D0F-BA67-9B862B614C13-4516-00000EB7A8A63C70.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Which begs the question, what did you do to get the punch? :D

[InsanePirateDragon]

Absolutely nothing, for once it wasn't my fault.

Lady got into the pallet of video games early and walmart workers made her put them back so lady had super duper bad attitude. So lady must have thought she deserved to get to the games first.

I only struck out with my elbow out of reflex when I whited out for a couple of seconds as I backed out of the mob which fell in on itself.

[Stefan-A]

And you're sure that wasn't a flock of zombies swarming a victim? They were people and they were after a video game? You're sure?

[ConcinusMan]

I can picture it now. People cramming in, elbow to elbow, fighting for the lead, and a bunch of "moo" sounds to go with them.

[Stefan-A]

I can picture it now. People cramming in, elbow to elbow, fighting for the lead, and a bunch of "moo" sounds to go with them.
I think you might be mistaking them for wildebeest crossing a crocodile infested (or rather: enriched) river during their annual migration.

[InsanePirateDragon]

Well to tell the truth I took my glasses off so that they wouldn't be broken. With the way they were acting I could have missed the zombies.

[Invisible Snake]

Has anyone else noticed that the colder temps are making ppl more prone to being butthurt?

[-MARWOLAETH-]

http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/rage-classy-rage-l.png

[Light of Dae]

Wow. All kinds of cool stuff here: Reptile Supplies (http://www.reptipro.com/reptile-supplies.html)


I just emailed them about their Garter snake care sheet. First congratulating them on not suggesting they eat bugs lol I just wanted to give them a little more info on our lovely friends's care and note the safe fish list and safe worms as well. Also made a note of Garters shouldn't be fed live mice as the can inflict damage and that garters don't handle fur well and can easily become impacted.

:) I'm just happy they got most everything right save for suggesting live prey. And didn't mention crickets:rolleyes:

[EasternGirl]

I think it is more the holiday season that brings out the idiocy of people rather than the cold weather. It is for this exact reason that I shop online. I would have to hurt someone if they got an attitude with me or touched my person in anyway while I was shopping. God help them if they hurt my son (insert mama lion roar here). The last time I went to the mall here I swore that if I had my foot run over by one more stroller I was going to seriously freak out. I don't even drive anywhere I don't absolutely be during this time of year. People are nuts. Ever notice how the worse the weather, the crazier people drive? How does that make sense?

[ProXimuS]

"The weather is slightly different. Everybody freak out!"

[ProXimuS]

7588

[kimbosaur]

I think it is more the holiday season that brings out the idiocy of people rather than the cold weather. It is for this exact reason that I shop online. I would have to hurt someone if they got an attitude with me or touched my person in anyway while I was shopping. God help them if they hurt my son (insert mama lion roar here). The last time I went to the mall here I swore that if I had my foot run over by one more stroller I was going to seriously freak out. I don't even drive anywhere I don't absolutely be during this time of year. People are nuts. Ever notice how the worse the weather, the crazier people drive? How does that make sense?

People need to seriously stop using strollers as weapons!

[Stefan-A]

I think it is more the holiday season that brings out the idiocy of people rather than the cold weather. It is for this exact reason that I shop online. I would have to hurt someone if they got an attitude with me or touched my person in anyway while I was shopping. God help them if they hurt my son (insert mama lion roar here). The last time I went to the mall here I swore that if I had my foot run over by one more stroller I was going to seriously freak out.
This year, I've done 100% of my christmas shopping online. I can't stand stores this time of year. I fear that one day I may lose it and grab someone's stroller, cart or child and just start bludgeoning people to death with it.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/garbage/samsonite.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

I'll be glad when the next page loads and I don't have scroll to read.:D

[Stefan-A]

I'll be glad when the next page loads and I don't have scroll to read.:D
Hush, you. Losing the autoresize is the best thing that has ever happened to this forum.

[guidofatherof5]

We are getting closer to that next page. Thanks Stefan.

[Stefan-A]

We are getting closer to that next page. Thanks Stefan.
I'm going to start deleting old comments. I can keep you on this page indefinitely.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm going to start deleting old comments. I can keep you on this page indefinitely.

I believe it.:D

[Mommy2many]

Hallelulaugh!

[StrmChasr]

It's 8pm on December 2 and 57 degrees outside in Ohio. In case anyone cares.

[guidofatherof5]

We are still in a drought here in Iowa. Warm and dry.

[EasternGirl]

Good grief! Thank goodness the wide page thing stopped. I was avoiding this thread because it was getting pretty tedious to have to scroll left and right to read a post! It's down to the line with my school work for the semester. My research paper is due the end of this week and I'm putting together a power point presentation on it. Steve, I emailed you the paper. My final math exam is Thursday. If all goes well I start clinical rotations and courses Jan 17th. I bought my atrocious uniform. I will have to take a pic of me in it and post it. Hunter green and white. Ugh. Going to work on my power point presentation and study some more math now.

[Steveo]

Unseasonably warm here too. Broke 70 degrees yesterday. Dropping back down into the 50s this week, which is still above average for this time of year.

All 3 of my constrictors are preparing to shed. I neglected to check before thawing food for them last night and had to throw away a mouse and 3 rat fuzzies. Still having a hard time getting the garters on chicken liver but I gave them the last of my rat pinks last night since they hadn't had any in a few weeks.

[Boots]

Hush, you. Losing the autoresize is the best thing that has ever happened to this forum.

Lost the auto re sizer..... I will have to look into that......

Jason

[guidofatherof5]

While I was out this morning, Tank was sending encrypted text messages to Stefan on Skype.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//751/medium/tank_on_skype.jpg

[Steveo]

Fox Steals Mobile Phone, Sends Text : Discovery News (http://news.discovery.com/tech/fox-steals-mobile-phone-sends-text-121203.html)

[ConcinusMan]

Our family Christmas tree this year. I think it turned out fantastic.

[IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/20kbyty.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2j9wgg.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/2m4ephi.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Looks good.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

where's the tree?

[ConcinusMan]

huh? First two pictures. It's a flocked (frosted with artificial snow) noble fir. Like these:

http://images.californiathroughmylens.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Christmas-Trees-with-snow-flocking.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

Just found a glaring mistake on the web. The "red racer" they are talking about is actually a red phase western coachwhip, which isn't really a racer at all but they seem to think it is. Note the latin name: http://digital-desert.com/wildlife/red-racer.html

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I love the red coachwhips that are almost solid red with no pattern. I hope to work with some of these and the buttermilk racers in the future.

[Invisible Snake]

7646

"This is Leptotyphlops carlae, the smallest known species of snake. Discovered in 2008 on an island of Barbados, it is as thin as a spaghetti noodle and can comfortably fit on a US quarter."

[ProXimuS]

I saw this before! They are so tiny/cute:) There was also some type of lizard.....maybe it was a skink, that an adult could fit on a dime:eek:

[Invisible Snake]

7651

Who doesn't like albinos..? Reminds me of a white Christmas.. and cocaine lol jk xD

[Stefan-A]

Who doesn't like albinos..?
Hello.

[StrmChasr]

Who doesn't like albinos..? Reminds me of a white Christmas.. and cocaine lol jk xD

Albino Polar Bears are my favorite!!!!!!

[ProXimuS]

...Albino Polar bear?

[ConcinusMan]

What polar bear?

[StrmChasr]

...Albino Polar bear?

7654
This kind :p

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, I know what a polar bear is. Just that the one in the picture he showed you, isn't a polar bear.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwwxd0Ylqm1r8ak8xo1_500.jpg

[ProXimuS]

So I guess the "albino polar bear" thing was a joke...?

[StrmChasr]

So I guess the "albino polar bear" thing was a joke...?

:D

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Animals are better off with melanin

[Stefan-A]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwwxd0Ylqm1r8ak8xo1_500.jpg


Polar bears are black. It's just the fur that's white.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Polar bear fur is amazing stuff .It's hollow to trap air giving even more insulation and it's completely pigmentless it's looks white because of the ice and snow reflecting off it.

[Invisible Snake]

7655

"Imagine you're a bird rooting around for food on the floor of the rainforest, when suddenly you come face to face with one of these beady pairs of eyes. If it were a snake, you'd be dinner.
In these circumstances, most birds fly off in flight which is rather fortunate for the true owner of the eyes - the rear ends of various kinds of rainforest caterpillars.
This isn't unique to the caterpillars either - many animals have false eye spots, either to frighten away predators or to distract attention from their true eyes, which are usually a vulnerable point."

[mikem]

That's some neat stuff right there, yep. :)

[Stefan-A]

it's looks white because of the ice and snow reflecting off it.
Not really. That would mean its color would change with its environment, which it doesn't. It just reflects light.

[EasternGirl]

Don't you guys remember when I posted a pic of one of those caterpillar things when I found it in my backyard? They are so funny. I love albino snakes and I love polar bears. Richard...those frosted trees you posted...I have never seen those at the tree places around here. I would love to have one of those...they are beautiful. Just a fake tree for us...it's pretty tacky looking.

I finally finished the semester in school. Took my last math exam today. Now I am just waiting for my grade on my exam and my research paper and presentation. I have a month off before clinicals start. Yipee! They gave us info at the clinical orientation on mental health referrals should we need it while we are in clinicals. I say that any time you are about to start something and they give you access to mental help if you need it....you should be worried. Jeez!

[ConcinusMan]

Yes I remember. We have those great big hairless green "eyed" caterpillars here that sometimes fall out of sycamore trees around here. They are Western Tiger Swallowtail larvae. The eyes don't seem to save them though. I see robins tearing them apart all the time.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Yes I remember. We have those great big hairless green "eyed" caterpillars here that sometimes fall out of sycamore trees around here. They are Western Tiger Swallowtail larvae. The eyes don't seem to save them though. I see robins tearing them apart all the time.As every generation of caterpillar gets more convincing the predators must get better at seeing through the disguise

[Invisible Snake]

Eyes don't have a color.

Interesting that you didn't spell it as "colour", was that intentional?

I thought all Europeans spelled it colour.

[Stefan-A]

Interesting that you didn't spell it as "colour", was that intentional?

I thought all Europeans spelled it colour.
British English, American English... In school we were basically told that "Either one is fine, just pick one and stick to it." I switch back and forth between the two all the time, without noticing.

[ConcinusMan]

Merry Christmas I suppose? Let's all run out the malls and go shopping Clackamas Town Center shooting: At least 2 shot dead, more injured by man with rifle | OregonLive.com (http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2012/12/clackamas_town_center_shooting.html)

[ConcinusMan]

Shooter has been killed by police

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I was unaware that there was American English until I got told off for spell checking my course work in Microsoft word without changing the settings :p

[RedSidedSPR]

As I send this, it is 12:12, 12/12/12
Won't happen again any time soon. (as in, 100 years)

in my time zone at least

[Stefan-A]

As I send this, it is 12:12, 12/12/12
Won't happen again any time soon. (as in, 100 years)

in my time zone at least
Missed it by 2000 years and one minute. ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Missed it by 2000 years and one minute. ;)

Darn it. My other 8 copies of the post, my emails and texts and screenshots and other meaningless things apparently took too long.

I don't know why post says I posted it at 1:13. I posted it at 12:13.

Whatever, it's still 12/12/12. Yay..

[Stefan-A]

darn it. My other 8 copies of the post, my emails and texts and screenshots and other meaningless things apparently took too long.

I don't know why post says i posted it at 1:13. I posted it at 12:13.

Whatever, it's still 12/12/12. Yay..
12/12/2012. :p

[ConcinusMan]

I don't know why post says I posted it at 1:13. I posted it at 12:13.

That's not what I see. I see 10:13 am. Check your forum settings. Make sure it's set to adjust for daylight savings time. Mine is set to do that, AND it shows MY local time as the time stamp for everyone's posts, regardless of what time it is for the poster locally. Less confusing that way.

[ConcinusMan]

Scary: Chasing Ice movie reveals largest iceberg break-up ever filmed - video | Environment | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2012/dec/12/chasing-ice-iceberg-greenland-video)

I don't see how people can still sit there and deny that this is a direct result of burning fossil fuels and global deforestation.

[Stefan-A]

Well, I wouldn't point to specific events and claim they prove anything, but the evidence for anthropogenic global warming is quite conclusive.

For those who are interested, here are two playlists on the subject, from two of my favorite youtubers.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL029130BFDC78FA33

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA4F0994AFB057BB8

[ConcinusMan]

I just think it's obvious that if you rapidly release carbon that was taken out of the atmosphere while simultaneously destroying the mechanisms for this removal, then it's logical that this is a major contributing factor to rapid global rise in atmospheric CO/CO2

[ProXimuS]

Richard...those frosted trees you posted...I have never seen those at the tree places around here. I would love to have one of those...they are beautiful.


Marnie, I do believe they sell the stuff, so you can flock your own tree. Of course you wouldn't want to do it on a fake tree....But I think I remember a looong time ago, when my family used to get real trees, that my mom was spraying it out back.


I don't have anything to say about global warming...

[ConcinusMan]

Richard...those frosted trees you posted...I have never seen those at the tree places around here.

They don't have them at tree stands here anymore either. (used to, years ago) They are however, available at any nursery around here that sells landscaping trees and plants. Not so much business for that this time of year, so they switch to stuff for the holidays.

This flocked noble fir came from Shorty's Garden & Home. http://www.shortysgardenandhome.com/

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I also don't understand why some people don't even believe in evolution.Its better understood than gravity ffs

[Stefan-A]

I also don't understand why some people don't even believe in evolution.Its better understood than gravity ffs
Some because it conflicts with what they see as the supreme authority, some because they have misconceptions regarding what it is and how it works.

[ConcinusMan]

Also, it has not been observed (and cannot be observed) because of the time scale needed for a species to change enough so that it is no longer the same species. There are plenty of examples of micro-evolution, but those examples are still the same species that they were before the changes that occurred.

[Stefan-A]

Also, it has not been observed (and cannot be observed)
It can and has, countless times, both in the lab and in the field. Medicine, for example, has to deal with that fact constantly. Agriculture is another field that has had to deal with it.


because of the time scale needed for a species to change enough so that it is no longer the same species.
Speciation is a separate issue and even that has been observed in real time and it has been conclusively demonstrated to have happened.


There are plenty of examples of micro-evolution,
You have no idea how much I hate that term. Or maybe you do. "Macro-evolution" is just the cumulative effect of "micro-evolution".


but those examples are still the same species that they were before the changes that occurred.
Incorrect.

[ConcinusMan]

Not my argument, but the argument of those that do not believe in it. The differences here are definitions. When do you draw the line? When is a species changed enough to no longer be that species? Even in the case of agriculture, broccoli and cauliflower are still the same species, despite the differences. Lettuce that we eat is still the same species as it's wild form. A dog is still a wolf.

[Stefan-A]

Not my argument, but the argument of those that do not believe in it.
If we're going to go through all the arguments they use, we're going to be here until the Sun swallows the planet.

[ConcinusMan]

Sorry, edited

[Stefan-A]

The differences here are definitions. When do you draw the line? When is a species changed enough to no longer be that species?
The definition of a species is a non-issue and nomenclature a completely separate one. The relevant changes happen on a population level, not on a species level.


Even in the case of agriculture, broccoli and cauliflower are still the same species, despite the differences. Lettuce that we eat is still the same species as it's wild form. A dog is still a wolf.
Of course. What else would they be?

[ConcinusMan]

You tell me.

[Stefan-A]

You tell me.
So you really intend to go through all their arguments?

[ConcinusMan]

No, just looking for you explain why they aren't valid.

[Stefan-A]

No, just looking for you explain why they aren't valid.
You make the claims, you explain why they are valid.

[ConcinusMan]

I would rather you explain why they are not since you seem to know so much more about it than I do. You seem to know something about how agriculture has dealt with it, I do not. You also say it has been observed in real time and it's been "conclusively demonstrated". Again, I know nothing about what you are referring to, or how it is incorrect that "examples are still the same species that they were before the changes that occurred".

Remember, I'm not denying it. I agree that evolution is real, but I can't provide any examples of it being observed or even occurring within the time frame of recorded history, other than morphological changes within a species or population, which is not the same as a species evolving into another.

Since I am wrong in that it hasn't been observed, then I want to know why that is wrong. You made the claim that it's wrong, so explain.

[Stefan-A]

I would rather you explain why they are not
I'm sure you would, but that's not how it works. You make a claim, it's your job to explain why it's valid.

If you don't put any effort into it, I'm not going to do it, either. That's my policy. And do you know why? Because it takes 10 times as long to explain why a baseless claim is wrong, than it takes to make a baseless claim in the first place.



You seem to know something about how agriculture has dealt with it, I do not. You also say it has been observed in real time and it's been "conclusively demonstrated". Again, I know nothing about what you are referring to, or how it is incorrect that "examples are still the same species that they were before the changes that occurred".

Remember, I'm not denying it. I agree that evolution is real, but I can't provide any examples of it being observed or even occurring within the time frame of recorded history, other than morphological changes within a species or population, which is not the same as a species evolving into another.
So in other words, you're deliberately wasting my time.

Here. Have at it. TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy (http://www.talkorigins.org/)


Since I am wrong in that it hasn't been observed, then I want to know why that is wrong. You made the claim that it's wrong, so explain.
You made the claim that it hasn't been observed. So explain.

[ConcinusMan]

You make a claim, it's your job to explain why it's valid.

It wasn't my claim. I was just passing on the claim of those that don't believe in evolution. As far as I knew, the claim that it hasn't been observed, had yet to be proven wrong. That doesn't mean it isn't wrong, just that I thought it had yet to be proven wrong. Don't leave it to me to "explain why it's valid" because I don't believe that it is.

If you don't want to explain your original answers I will just have to assume that they are opinion because like I said, I wasn't aware that it had been proven wrong and I still am just being told that it is wrong, instead of being shown the evidence to support that it's wrong. I'm still only being shown examples that prove natural selection takes place and can be observed. Does that prove that evolution takes place? Not that I am aware of. A peppered moth is still a peppered moth, regardless of it's color.

[Stefan-A]

It wasn't my claim. I was just passing on the claim of those that don't believe in evolution.
So you're just wasting my time.


As far as I knew, the claim that it hasn't been observed, had yet to be proven wrong.
It has yet to be proven right.


If you don't want to explain your original answers I will just have to assume that they are opinion
Assume all you want.


I'm still only being shown examples that prove natural selection takes place and can be observed. Does that prove that evolution takes place? Not that I am aware of.
In any population, there is variation. Some of that variation is hereditary. Some hereditary traits cause a difference in how well the individual reproduces. Natural selection. If it's beneficial, it reproduces better than other members of the population. Since resources are limited and an area can only support a limited number of individuals, an increasing proportion of the population carries the trait with every generation. Over time, the population changes. Evolution.

Now imagine that you have two recently isolated populations of the same species (or subspecies, doesn't matter one bit). In population A, a hereditary trait appears (or an old one becomes more important eg. due to a climatic change) and spreads to all (or most) members of that population. Because there is no gene exchange between population A and B, you have two populations that have de facto split. That is what speciation is, and one way it happens.


A peppered moth is still a peppered moth, regardless of it's color.
It's not the same peppered moth.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I think with dogs and other selectively bred species,apart from appearance there probably isn't much difference between their natural state we just allow them to display features that might not have been good for survival in the wild but suit our needs better or look nice to us.

[ConcinusMan]

So you're just wasting my time.

No, not really. The choice to participate or not to, was, and still is, your choice.


It's not the same peppered moth

Sure it is. As you have said yourself, dogs are wolves.

I have no doubt that speciation occurs just how you say it does. What I doubt is that it has conclusively been observed. After all the physical changes and tens of thousands of years, (even longer) a dog is still a wolf.

[Stefan-A]

No, not really. The choice to participate or not to, was, and still is, your choice.
You're still wasting my time by dragging up that bullcrap and defending it.


Sure it is.
It's not.


As you have said yourself, dogs are wolves.
Not the same wolves.


After all the physical changes and tens of thousands of years, (even longer) a dog is still a wolf.
What the hell else would it be? And try to answer that question this time. Would you expect them to stop being wolves? How about canids? Would you expect them to stop being canids? Mammals? Chordates? Animals? Come on, don't be scared.

[ConcinusMan]

Not the same wolves.

Not interested


What the hell else would it be?

Nothing else, and that's the point isn't it?

[Stefan-A]

Not interested
You should be.


Nothing else, and that's the point isn't it?
Come on now, don't try to dodge the question or pretend you didn't understand it.

[ConcinusMan]

You made the claim that it hasn't been observed. So explain.

The examples given show that natural selection takes place, which is presumably the mechanism for evolution. We have not observed for example, a shrew evolving into a primate or a single celled organism evolving into a muti-cellular one. It can only show us how a population of animals can change their appearance, behavior, etc., but a dog remains a wolf, and a shrew remains a shrew. You made it sound as if this has changed since I last heard, but it has not. You cannot cite an example of what I call micro-evolution resulting in macro-evolution. You say that macro-evolution is the cumulative result of micro-evolution, and I agree because the evidence overwhelmingly supports it, but nobody has actually observed it.


What the hell else would it be?

Exactly. You tell me. When does it evolve to be something other than a wolf? Or more important to the point I'm trying to make, When has it ever been observed to do so?

The theory of evolution contends that all mammals evolved from very simple, tiny forms. That has never been observed. We have only observed a wolf becoming a "different wolf" as you put it. The span of time needed for it to become something other than a wolf is too great for us to observe it.

[kimbosaur]

http://i.verylol.com/1/funny_evolution_of_man_1.jpg

:)

[ConcinusMan]

I stand corrected.

[Stefan-A]

The examples given show that natural selection takes place,
No, they demonstrate that evolution has taken place. Whether or not it's through natural selection is a different matter.


which is presumably the mechanism for evolution.
Demonstrably a mechanism for evolution. There's no presuming about it and there are more than one.


We have not observed for example, a shrew evolving into a primate
Nor should we, if evolution happens.


or a single celled organism evolving into a muti-cellular one.
Already observed. Took 60 days.


It can only show us how a population of animals can change their appearance, behavior, etc., but a dog remains a wolf, and a shrew remains a shrew.
Why the hell wouldn't they remain wolves and shrews? Start explaining why you think they would become something else if evolution happened. What do you think separates one species from another?


You made it sound as if this has changed since I last heard, but it has not.
What the hell does that even mean? What has changed since you last heard?


You cannot cite an example of what I call micro-evolution resulting in macro-evolution.
First off, stop using those words, they're nonsensical the way you are using them. Use evolution and speciation, because that's what you are talking about. Second, type into Google: observed instances of speciation.


but nobody has actually observed it.
Incorrect. And before you make that statement again, I expect you to try to prove yourself wrong.


Exactly. You tell me.
No, you tell me.


When does it evolve to be something other than a wolf?
Never, nor should it, if evolution happens.


Or more important to the point I'm trying to make, When has it ever been observed to do so?
Never, which is what the theory predicts.


The theory of evolution contends
Theories explain observed facts, on the basis of observed facts. They don't contend.

And speaking of facts, that evolution happens is an observed fact, explained by theories of evolution by different means, for example natural selection.


that all mammals evolved from very simple, tiny forms.
Like all other organisms. Why do you consider that a problem?


That has never been observed.
The genetic evidence is more than enough to demonstrate that it happened and it's not going to happen again.


We have only observed a wolf becoming a "different wolf" as you put it.
Only? What would expect? Seriously, answer the question. I want to know what you think should happen if evolution happens, because it's quite likely that you don't know what the concept even means. Species split off from their ancestor and acquire new characteristics, they don't leave the lineage.


The span of time needed for it to become something other than a wolf is too great for us to observe it.
Why do you think that they would become non-wolves? What defines a wolf? No, I'm not asking for your opinion, I'm asking you what a wolf is defined as in taxonomy.

[Light of Dae]

Can you two not do this again?!?! Seriously.

[Light of Dae]

On another note. I am going to have to move in a month or two. After 5 years... I am now single. I am tired of everything becoming an argument, always coming in last behind money, truck, clean house, his life n how he wants things. He is an alcoholic an a heavy smoker. I'm tired of emotional abuse, I'm to young for this sh*t.

I will be taking all my snakes, and my dog. I'm giving my Bearded Dragon Ifrit to a friend. My horse can stay here for now... till he gets tired of her.

At least I got my good job.

[guidofatherof5]

Hang in there Michelle. Our thoughts and prayers are headed your way.

[Invisible Snake]

New species of cockroach looks like a baby Ewok, glows in the dark | MNN - Mother Nature Network (http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/stories/new-species-of-cockroach-looks-like-a-baby-ewok-glows-in-the-dark)

[guidofatherof5]

What a terrible situation in CT. Our thoughts and prayers go out to all the parents who lost children and to the families of the adults that died.

I do know that LeAnn's (Mommy2many) children are safe.

[ConcinusMan]

No, they demonstrate that evolution has taken place.

Not interested in what has already taken place. I'm interested in what has been observed.



Already observed. Took 60 days.

I'm not convinced that evolution is what they observed. They failed to prove it beyond any doubt.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

What a terrible situation in CT. Our thoughts and prayers go out to all the parents who lost children and to the families of the adults that died.

I do know that LeAnn's (Mommy2many) children are safe. What happened there?

[ConcinusMan]

18 elementary school kids shot dead this morning. A few adults dead too I believe. People are just nucking futs. I don't think anyone in the U.S. can turn on the TV without seeing the news reports on every channel. It's all that's on.

Just google "18 children dead" and you'll see what happened. Someone went on a rampage in Oregon too, a couple of days ago at a shopping mall but luckily, only one person was shot, expected to live, and gunman dead.

[Stefan-A]

Not interested in what has already taken place. I'm interested in what has been observed.
No you're not, you're ignoring what's been observed.


I'm not convinced that evolution is what they observed. They failed to prove it beyond any doubt.
There's a difference between doubt and denial.

[ConcinusMan]

No you're not, you're ignoring what's been observed.

What has been observed is the question that is still in doubt but I suppose it always will be.


There's a difference between doubt and denial.

There's also a difference between absolute undeniable proof, and interpretation of the evidence. Believing is seeing. I want to believe that it has been observed. That doesn't make it so. Remember, I'm on your "side" but I still don't believe that they have proven their case beyond doubt.

[ConcinusMan]

18 elementary school kids shot dead this morning.

Make it 20. Crap.

[Stefan-A]

What has been observed is the question that is still in doubt but I suppose it always will be.
I already told you how to find out what's been observed. At this point you are trying very hard not to see what's right in front of you.


There's also a difference between absolute undeniable proof,
Does proof stop being undeniable, when someone denies it?


and interpretation of the evidence.
You can't ignore the evidence and pretend you've got a better interpretation of it.


Believing is seeing.
What?


I want to believe that it has been observed.
Well isn't that special. Apparently you don't want it hard enough to actually use Google and type "observed instances of speciation", with or without quotation marks.


Remember, I'm on your "side"
Not buying it, sorry. Also, not interested.


but I still don't believe that they have proven their case beyond doubt.
They have. Beyond all doubt, including reasonable doubt. What remains is denial.

[ConcinusMan]

I already told you how to find out what's been observed. At this point you are trying very hard not to see what's right in front of you.

I have looked at what has been observed. I am trying very hard to see it as proof. I shouldn't have to try so hard. It should be obvious, but it's not. All one has to do is to set aside his beliefs and look at the "evidence" objectively to see that they still have failed to eliminate any other plausible interpretation of what has been observed. That is what I mean by "Believing is seeing".


Does proof stop being undeniable, when someone denies it?

No, it becomes undeniable when there is no other possible interpretation/explanation for what has been observed.


You can't ignore the evidence and pretend you've got a better interpretation of it.

They have. Beyond all doubt, including reasonable doubt. What remains is denial.

Define "better". Define "reasonable" for that matter. What is reasonable to one, can be unreasonable to another. Same goes for "better".

Is any one explanation of what has been observed truly any less "reasonable" or "better" than the other? That all depends on the observer doesn't it?

[Stefan-A]

I have looked at what has been observed.
Good. Now try to understand that observing it in real time is little more than a curiosity, the real evidence is genetic.


I am trying very hard to see it as proof. I shouldn't have to try so hard.
Why, and why not?


It should be obvious,
Why?


but it's not.
It is obvious.


All one has to do is to set aside his beliefs and look at the "evidence"
No quotation marks around evidence. It is evidence. Some would even call it proof, in the colloquial sense.


objectively to see that they still have failed to eliminate any other plausible interpretation of what has been observed.
They haven't failed to do that. What would you consider another plausible interpretation?


That is what I mean by "Believing is seeing".
It still makes no sense.


Define "better".
Actually, that's your job at this point.


Define "reasonable" for that matter.
To what end?


What is reasonable to one, can be unreasonable to another.
Not really. Some forms of logic can be applied, some can't. It has nothing to do with the observer.


Same goes for "better".
Not a matter of preference, sorry.


Is any one explanation of what has been observed
Such as? Go on. Which explanations are you referring to here? No point in being unnecessarily vague.


truly any less "reasonable" or "better" than the other?
Yes.


That all depends on the observer doesn't it?
No.


Let's give the wolf & shrew issue another go. I posed a few questions, I'd like to have them answered, so that we can make some actual progress.

[ConcinusMan]

No point in being unnecessarily vague.

Then why do you do it?


It can and has, countless times, both in the lab and in the field. Medicine, for example, has to deal with that fact constantly. Agriculture is another field that has had to deal with it.

What happened in medicine? What happened in agriculture? I don't expect you to go digging up all the specifics so why do you expect if of me?


Good. Now try to understand that observing it in real time is little more than a curiosity, the real evidence is genetic.

Exactly. In the case of the yeast experiment, without any kind of genetic analysis, it is impossible to conclude that any genetic changes were responsible for the phenotypic changes observed. Where is "the real" evidence in the case of the yeast? Does it exist?

The only reason I ask is because people providing "another explanation for what has been observed" say that "The authors of the study used the word "genotypes" at least a few dozen times, even though they did zero genetic analysis"

Is that true or not? Seems unlikely that they would claim that, if it weren't true. I mean, wouldn't that undermine the entire fabric of their credibility? Wouldn't they just be cutting off their nose to spite their face? Was there genetic analysis done or not?

If they can't show that genetic changes were responsible for the change in phenotype, because they didn't do any analysis, then they didn't eliminate beyond a reasonable doubt, another explanation for what was observed.

Was there genetic analysis done or not? I don't know. How can I make informed conclusions if I am being lied to? How do I know who is lying and who is not? I don't, and if I can't possibly know, than you can't know either. What if we're being lied to by both sides? Then the point of our argument is moot.

[ConcinusMan]

Let's give the wolf & shrew issue another go. I posed a few questions, I'd like to have them answered, so that we can make some actual progress.

In case you haven't figured it out already, I'm not interested in making "actual progress" I'm more interested in picking your brain and hearing your arguments. That is why I "fox news" this. So yeah, really I'm just wasting your time. Thanks for contributing it. You're a good sport.

[Stefan-A]

What happened in medicine? What happened in agriculture? I don't expect you to go digging up all the specifics so why do you expect if of me?
I actually go and dig them up before I post my claims. You don't even do it after being informed how you could.


The only reason I ask is because people providing "another explanation for what has been observed" say that "The authors of the study used the word "genotypes" at least a few dozen times, even though they did zero genetic analysis"
What people? It's a guy on the internet. :D

[Stefan-A]

I'm not interested in making "actual progress"
Tough noogies, I am. So let's make some actual progress. I posed a number of questions, would you mind answering them?

[Mommy2many]

A more sobering discussion.
The shootings that took place today in CT are 15 mins away from us. We were all in lockdown, including our hospital. My daughter has two classmates who lost their siblings today. Another's mother was shot. We are still reeling from the fact that this took place in our backyards. Twenty elementary school children dead. More saved because someone in the office pushed the intercom button down so the school could hear the shootings. I am so upset right now.

[guidofatherof5]

Such a waste of life.

[Foxrun402]

Or this...
http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o774/foxrun402/candycane_zps4ee60f8c.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

I actually go and dig them up before I post my claims. You don't even do it after being informed how you could.

So you assume?


What people? It's a guy on the internet. :D

Are you sure?

What does anyone actually observe anyway? I know that there are countless people out there that would argue that squares A and B are two different colors, but are they?

http://oi48.tinypic.com/2qssz79.jpg

My point is, I don't think that true reality is even observable by any human being. Therefore, the question of whether or not God exists, or whether or not life came into existence spontaneously can never be answered and will always be argued (perhaps because it is the wrong question) because we are incapable of comprehending the answer even if the answer is right under our noses. I know that wasn't what we were talking about but it's something to think about.

[ConcinusMan]

Tough noogies, I am. So let's make some actual progress. I posed a number of questions, would you mind answering them?

Why? It doesn't serve my stated purpose.

I like turtles.:D

[ConcinusMan]

We are still reeling from the fact that this took place in our backyards. Twenty elementary school children dead.

Kind of seems like what happened closer to home, just minutes away in Oregon gets shoved under the carpet. Hardly anyone noticed. This crap happens around here quite a bit but unless a bunch of people get killed, hardly anyone but the locals know about it. Not enough people dead I guess. But I always have to ask the question of why the heck is anyone on lockdown at this point? For dramatic effect? Schools 100's of miles from the scene get locked down around here, and stay that way long after the incident is over. Sorry, but am I the only one that thinks that is just totally unnecessary?

[Stefan-A]

So you assume?
Nope, there's evidence for it.


Are you sure?
I googled it. Yes.

Do you know what people whose opinions matter had to say about it? Of course not.



What does anyone actually observe anyway? I know that there are countless people out there that would argue that squares A and B are two different colors, but are they?

http://oi48.tinypic.com/2qssz79.jpg

You do know that there are ways of determining whether those two are the same shade? It's not a matter of opinion or perception. Things have properties, properties can be measured and compared. Some methods produce more reliable results than others and any method that's better than chance is worth using. And any results gained through methods that are better than chance, are more valuable than opinions.


My point is, I don't think that true reality is even observable by any human being.
So what? Sure, we can't see certain wavelengths, we can still find out whether they're there. Our limitations are not limitations on "true" reality.


whether or not life came into existence spontaneously
Spontaneous generation was debunked a long time ago. Also, draw a line between life and chemistry.


can never be answered
Sure it can. There's no natural law preventing it.


because we are incapable of comprehending the answer even if the answer is right under our noses.
What's the basis for that claim?


I know that wasn't what we were talking about but it's something to think about.
Thought about it, rejected most of it.

Now why don't we discuss those wolves and shrews.

[Light of Dae]

Why don't you two argumentative gents take and make your own Debate thread. I am sick and tired of having to scroll through your stupid freaking arguments to catch up on other peoples lives.
If I wanted to listen to an argument I'd talk to my ex!

So yet again, Richard and Stefan.
SHUT UP! and Take it somewhere else!

[ConcinusMan]

Sheesh, what a grouch. sǝןʇɹnʇ ǝʞıן ı

[guidofatherof5]

She entitled to her opinion.;)

[ConcinusMan]

I googled it. Yes.

Good. Now google "client server database" (sans quotes) and see what happens. See if you think that the top results are relevant. If so, next time someone asks you what "client server database" is, you can give them that answer and tell them it's true because you googled it.

[Stefan-A]

Good. Now google "client server database" (sans quotes) and see what happens. See if you think that the top results are relevant. If so, next time someone asks you what "client server database" is, you can give them that answer and tell them it's true because you googled it.
What are you babbling about?

[ConcinusMan]

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She entitled to her opinion.http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

http://oi46.tinypic.com/2s8nxp2.jpg


What are you babbling about?

You say you googled it. I "googled it" too:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2jd2g5h.jpg

[Stefan-A]

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http://oi46.tinypic.com/2s8nxp2.jpg



You say you googled it. I "googled it" too:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2jd2g5h.jpg
So, what are you yapping about? I'm sure you are trying to make some sort of point.

[ConcinusMan]

I am. The point is, I like turtles.

Moving on...

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.


It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

[Stefan-A]

I am.
So start spelling it out.

[RedSidedSPR]

After that amusing 3 pages, I forgot what I came here for

[ConcinusMan]

Perfect. My work is done. :D

[Stefan-A]

Perfect. My work is done. :D
It's not done by a long shot. You still have a lot of questions to answer.

[ConcinusMan]

I think that you're probably a better source for answers. I'm just a guy on the internet.:rolleyes:

A couple of things I was hoping you would be able answer:


Why the hell wouldn't they remain wolves and shrews?

Why the hell didn't the first mammals just remain as they were?


The genetic evidence is more than enough to demonstrate that it happened and it's not going to happen again

How can the theory say that evolution into new lines happened, while simultaneously predicting that it won't happen again? Why can't a wolf be the ancestor of future mammals that are not wolves? Isn't that what happened already? The ancestor of wolves, rodents, primates, human beings, is a common one is it not? They say the first mammals were tiny shrew-like animals. If they can't evolve into anything else, then where did the rest of the mammals come from? I'm confused because it sounds like you're saying that a shrew can't evolve into something that isn't a shrew, but that it did happen already.

[Stefan-A]

Why the hell didn't the first mammals just remain as they were?
The question is nonsensical. There were no "first mammals". Gradual changes render the term "first" meaningless.


How can the theory say that evolution into new lines happened, while simultaneously predicting that it won't happen again?
They're not new lines, the line simply split.


Why can't a wolf be the ancestor of future mammals that are not wolves?
Because they'd still be a subset of wolf, no matter how different they'd become compared to whatever species they split from. You are nothing like the "first" mammals, but I bet you'd still consider yourself a mammal. The same thing applies to taxonomic ranks above and below class.


Isn't that what happened already? The ancestor of wolves, rodents, primates, human beings, is a common one is it not?
See previous answer.


They say the first mammals were tiny shrew-like animals.
Shrew-like is not shrew.


If they can't evolve into anything else, then where did the rest of the mammals come from?
You really don't get the splitting thing.


I'm confused because it sounds like you're saying that a shrew can't evolve into something that isn't a shrew, but that it did happen already.
See previous answers. Also, it didn't happen.

Do you always answer questions with questions?

[ConcinusMan]

The question is nonsensical. There were no "first mammals". Gradual changes render the term "first" meaningless.

I thought it was obvious that I was talking about the first mammals to appear in the fossil record.


You really don't get the splitting thing.

Apparently not, but I'm trying.


Do you always answer questions with questions?

I wasn't trying to answer any questions. What were the questions again?

[Stefan-A]

I thought it was obvious that I was talking about the first mammals to appear in the fossil record.
You thought wrong and it makes no difference.


Apparently not, but I'm trying.
I doubt it.

I drew a picture for you, but I deleted it.


I wasn't trying to answer any questions.
Well there's your problem.


What were the questions again?
Go back to the beginning and start searching for question marks. If they appear in my posts, chances are that the questions they were attached to were never answered.

[ConcinusMan]

Go back to the beginning and start searching for question marks. If they appear in my posts, chances are that the questions they were attached to were never answered.



After all the physical changes and tens of thousands of years, (even longer) a dog is still a wolf.


What the hell else would it be?

A different wolf, I suppose. Wait...

http://www.ignitepixels.com/ilold/lulz/3/examples/facepalm_picard.jpg

You win. I'm an idiot.:o

I get it now. I wouldn't expect a wolf to to evolve into something other than a wolf unless I would also expect a mammal to evolve into anything but another mammal. Why didn't you just say that. Geez.

Wait, doesn't that make every living thing on earth today just a subset of prokaryote?

[Stefan-A]

You win. I'm an idiot.:o
Nice try, but I'm not in it to "win" anything.

[ConcinusMan]

Nice try, but I'm not in it to "win" anything.

Sure you were. You were trying to convince me that I am wrong about evolution not being observed. You did that.


The question is nonsensical. There were no "first mammals".

What about first living things? What were they? If the question is nonsensical then so is the existence of life. There were no "first" life forms? Life doesn't exist. It's all an illusion. Everything we "know" is a lie. OMG! :eek: Next thing you know, a snake will disappear by swallowing itself and people will be dividing by zero. It will be chaos!:p

[Stefan-A]

Sure you were. You were trying to convince me that I am wrong about evolution not being observed.
Completely unrelated.


What about first living things? What were they?
Same thing applies. There's a reason why I asked you to draw a line between life and chemistry.


If the question is nonsensical then so is the existence of life.
Doesn't follow.


There were no "first" life forms? Life doesn't exist. It's all an illusion. Everything we "know" is a lie. OMG! :eek:
Nope.

[ConcinusMan]

Of course there were first mammals. There had to be a "first" that fully fits the definition of mammal. Right? If a life form didn't fit the definition, than it wasn't a mammal.


There's a reason why I asked you to draw a line between life and chemistry.

Life is chemistry. Or is it physics? You see what I was saying now? I don't think humans are capable of fully understanding and grasping everything there is to know. If we were capable of it, there would be no need for us to ask any questions, because we would already know the answers.

[Stefan-A]

Of course there were first mammals. There had to be a "first" that fully fits the definition of mammal.
Nope. Gradual change. The "first" mammal would have been indistinguishable from the previous generation and all other members of the population, meaning that drawing a line there instead of at the previous or next generation (or basically any other) would be completely arbitrary.


Right?
Wrong.


If a life form didn't fit the definition, than it wasn't a mammal.
Where do you draw the line between a reptile-like mammal and a mammal-like reptile?


Life is chemistry.
Go on.

[infernalis]

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/SilverDoe92/GIFS/Deer-popcorn.gif

[ConcinusMan]

Cute ^^^


Where do you draw the line between a reptile-like mammal and a mammal-like reptile?

You don't. It's a mammal once it meets all the criteria for being a mammal. Doesn't matter if it's "reptile-like". Also doesn't matter if a reptile is "mammal-like". If it still meets all the criteria for being a reptile, than it's still a reptile. Does it matter that the platypus lays eggs like a reptile or a bird? Does it matter that it has a bird-like bill? No. It's still a mammal because it meets all the criteria.

[ConcinusMan]

:p

http://i49.tinypic.com/u7tvr.png

[ConcinusMan]

Awesome! A Leucistic White Red-Tailed Hawk | Village Hiker ConversationsVillage Hiker Conversations (http://villagehiker.com/conversations/a-leucistic-white-red-tailed-hawk/)

[Stefan-A]

You don't.
So why are you demanding it?


It's a mammal once it meets all the criteria for being a mammal.
Gradual change. There was no first such animal at any point in time.


Doesn't matter if it's "reptile-like". Also doesn't matter if a reptile is "mammal-like". If it still meets all the criteria for being a reptile, than it's still a reptile.
The class Reptilia is paraphyletic and therefore not a valid taxon. There is no such thing as a reptile.


Does it matter that the platypus lays eggs like a reptile or a bird? Does it matter that it has a bird-like bill? No. It's still a mammal because it meets all the criteria.
You're still only looking at morphology. Also, no. The "criteria" are not criteria, they're general descriptions. Even if eg. turtles evolved that exhibit the exact same characteristics, they wouldn't be classifieds as mammals.

[Foxrun402]

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/SilverDoe92/GIFS/Deer-popcorn.gif

LMFAO!
Sorry couldn't hold that one in

[ConcinusMan]

Life IS chemistry.


Go on.

OK. One might say that life is just an emergent property of chemistry and physics but If you're going to say that, it's like saying that something is the emergent property of nothing. That time and matter emerged from nothing all on it's own. "Emergent property" is just another way of saying that life emerged from chemistry and physics without admitting the existence of a creative intelligent design. This is why I say we are incapable of understanding/grasping the real answers to our questions (basically, "what is reality") because we are made of matter and operate inside the laws of physics and time. In order for us to understand it fully, we would have to operate outside of it and if we could do that, we would be "God". Obviously, we are not or we wouldn't need to ask the questions in the first place. There would be no question if we were capable of understanding the answer.

That brings us back to one of your other questions. I said that we were incapable of understanding the answers and you asked me what I based that on. In order for the universe to exist we must believe that it had a beginning. Most of us do. It was created by an intelligent deity, or something came from nothing on it's own. Either way, we can't comprehend it. We would have to comprehend how something can come from nothing, or we would have believe that it was created by a deity that just for the sake of simplicity, I will call "God". But what is God? Again, we wouldn't have to ask the question, if we were capable of understanding the answer.

The answers are right under our noses, and observable, and yet we still ask the questions. Therefore, we are incapable of understanding the answers. It's no different than explaining to a 5 year old child, where he came from. If you give him all the biological details, in other words, the truth, instead of telling him the stork brought him, he still won't understand. Even if he witnessed the creation of a human life in real time, he still wouldn't fully understand what he was seeing. What makes you think adults are any different?

[Stefan-A]

OK. One might say that life is just an emergent property of chemistry and physics but If you're going to say that, it's like saying that something is the emergent property of nothing. That time and matter emerged from nothing all on it's own.
How does that follow?


"Emergent property" is just another way of saying that life emerged from chemistry and physics without admitting the existence of a creative intelligent design. This is why I say we are incapable of understanding/grasping the real answers to our questions (basically, "what is reality") because we are made of matter and operate inside the laws of physics and time. In order for us to understand it fully, we would have to operate outside of it and if we could do that, we would be "God". Obviously, we are not or we wouldn't need to ask the questions in the first place. There would be no question if we were capable of understanding the answer.
How do you figure that's an obstacle? Moreover, how does operating outside of it, presuming that it's even logically possible, help understand / grasp anything happening "on the inside"? Wouldn't you be blind (metaphorically speaking) to everything on the inside?


That brings us back to one of your other questions. I said that we were incapable of understanding the answers and you asked me what I based that on. In order for the universe to exist we must believe that it had a beginning. Most of us do. It was created by an intelligent deity, or something came from nothing on it's own.
Well, we can trace it back to the moment immediately after the so-called big bang. Anything before that (presuming the word "before" has any meaning, considering that this was the point of origin of both time and space) is for now beyond what we can figure out and I am reluctant to mix beings into the debate, because that's nothing more than a stopgap explanation. Or rather a placeholder for an actual explanation.


Either way, we can't comprehend it.
Yet.


We would have to comprehend how something can come from nothing,
Not really, nor is that the proposition.


or we would have believe that it was created by a deity
Which I presume we must allow to have come from nothing, in which case we're doing a lot special pleading, as far as the "something from nothing" claim goes.


that just for the sake of simplicity, I will call "God". But what is God? Again, we wouldn't have to ask the question, if we were capable of understanding the answer.
It's a major cop-out.


The answers are right under our noses, and observable, and yet we still ask the questions. Therefore, we are incapable of understanding the answers.
An answer isn't an answer without a question preceding it.


It's no different than explaining to a 5 year old child, where he came from. If you give him all the biological details, in other words, the truth, instead of telling him the stork brought him, he still won't understand. Even if he witnessed the creation of a human life in real time, he still wouldn't fully understand what he was seeing. What makes you think adults are any different?
By 5 years of age, I was well aware of where babies come from. I may not have had every biological detail, but neither do most adults. Understanding doesn't require all the information.

[ConcinusMan]

How does that follow?

Because chemistry and physics can't exist without matter and matter is presumed to have come from nothing at the moment of the big bang.



how does operating outside of it, presuming that it's even logically possible, help understand / grasp anything happening "on the inside"? Wouldn't you be blind (metaphorically speaking) to everything on the inside?

No, because it's only "logically possible" if our very existence (and minds) are infinite and beyond the physical. If our minds were infinite we would be wouldn't be "blind" to anything.


or we would have believe that it was created by a deity


Which I presume we must allow to have come from nothing

Not exactly. Because for the sake of argument, "nothing" in this case simply means the lack of matter/a universe as we understand it. It does not mean there can't be something that isn't matter.


Well, we can trace it back to the moment immediately after the so-called big bang. Anything before that (presuming the word "before" has any meaning, considering that this was the point of origin of both time and space) is for now beyond what we can figure out and I am reluctant to mix beings into the debate, because that's nothing more than a stopgap explanation. Or rather a placeholder for an actual explanation.



either way, we can't comprehend it


Yet.

Which is the reason it is only a "placeholder". Put there until the day comes that we can comprehend it. If that day ever comes. I say that day can't come because we would have to understand what existed before time. There would have to be meaning in "before".


(presuming the word "before" has any meaning, considering that this was the point of origin of both time and space) is for now beyond what we can figure out

Exactly my point. It is beyond what we can figure out because our very existence is a copoareal one. (one of physical substance or matter, existing in the confines of space time)


An answer isn't an answer without a question preceding it.

There would be no questions if we could comprehend the answer to just one. There is only question that needs to be answered in order for all other questions to be unnecessary. If we knew the answer to that one question, we wouldn't have to ask any questions. We don't even know what that one question is.

[Stefan-A]

Because chemistry and physics can't exist without matter and matter is presumed to have come from nothing at the moment of the big bang.
Incorrect.


No, because it's only "logically possible" if our very existence (and minds) are infinite and beyond the physical. If our minds were infinite we would be wouldn't be "blind" to anything.
If it's "beyond the physical" it doesn't exist.


Not exactly. Because for the sake of argument, "nothing" in this case simply means the lack of matter/a universe as we understand it. It does not mean there can't be something that isn't matter.
That's not nothing in any sense of the word. That's something.


Which is the reason it is only a "placeholder".
What "it" and what is "it" needed for?



Exactly my point. It is beyond what we can figure out because our very existence is a copoareal one. (one of physical substance or matter, existing in the confines of space time)
That's not a license to fill in that gap with just anything.


There would be no questions if we could comprehend the answer to just one. There is only question that needs to be answered in order for all other questions to be unnecessary. If we knew the answer to that one question, we wouldn't have to ask any questions. We don't even know what that one question is.
Yeah, unfortunately the Earth was destroyed by Vogons just as the mice were about to figure out the question.

[Invisible Snake]

How about you guys just settle it in the octagon? :p

[Stefan-A]

How about you guys just settle it in the octagon? :p
I prefer the traditional way of settling disputes.

Holmgang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmgang)

[ConcinusMan]

How about you guys just settle it in the octagon? :p

Because, while can't speak for Stefan, I'm not trying to "settle" anything. Just having dialogue.

Hey, it's been a very cold day today. I heard it was going to freeze tonight so I went outside to bring in some potted plants. It's snowing. So far up until now we haven't even come close to getting a taste of winter. We haven't even been getting overnight freezes, which is rather unusual. Those usually start in late Oct or early Nov. There are even rose bushes and geraniums that are still blooming.

[ConcinusMan]

More snow tomorrow and through tomorrow night too. Right down the valley floor. (Willamette Valley)

I don't think we have to worry about it sticking around for too long. check out the forecast :rolleyes:

http://i47.tinypic.com/n1ckmh.png

[Invisible Snake]

7693

[ConcinusMan]

Good grief ^^^. This is exactly why I think it's just downright stupid to own a snake that you can't easily physically control, especially one that weighs as much, or more than you do.


Incorrect.

If it's "beyond the physical" it doesn't exist.

Only if you put limits on existence by defining it as only physical. Those limits are the limits of our own existence so it's only natural that you would think that.

[Stefan-A]

Only if you put limits on existence by defining it as only physical. Those limits are the limits of our own existence so it's only natural that you would think that.
It's not a limit on existence, it's what existence is. If you want to lump together the non-existing and the existing, you need another word to describe that.

[EasternGirl]

Oh my God! I was going to come on here and say...sorry I haven't been around but my computer has been crashing. But...I guess I am not sorry for not being around. I just scrolled through I don't know how many pages of crap to get here. Stefan...I think you are supposed to be stopping these kind of things from happening...not participating in them. Both of you need to take it to a PM...or better yet...let it friggin drop!

The school shootings have had me very upset. Le Ann...I am so sorry to hear about the loss of people you knew. I cried all day for those families on Friday. My cousin is a school psychologist at a school very close to Sandy Hook. It was unreal...the needless violence in our country is becoming unbelievable. I want to lock my son up in the house and never let him leave.

Taking my cat to the vet today...spent Saturday night in the vet ER with her...don't know what's going on...appears to be some kind of urinary thing...hopefully it's not her kidneys failing...she is about 15 years old.

Michelle...sorry to hear about your breakup. Just went through something similar myself. Be proud of yourself for doing what is best for you and hang in there!

[Stefan-A]

I just scrolled through I don't know how many pages of crap to get here.
You have no idea how many times I've wanted to say that over the years.


Stefan...I think you are supposed to be stopping these kind of things from happening...not participating in them.
We may have different ideas of what this kind of thing is.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I appologize for bringing up the subject of evolution.I didnt know it would start a four page s+?!e storm.

[ConcinusMan]

Since you haven't been around the forum for very long, we'll forgive you this time. But now you know. Yes, it will start "a four page s+?!e storm" as long as Stefan and I are both here. It's OK. The forum gets boring or sluggish sometimes so I gotta start a **** storm with Stefan every now and then. It was due. You didn't start it, you just gave me an excuse to.


We may have different ideas of what this kind of thing is.

And she might even be misunderstanding what your job as a moderator is. At least that's what it sounds like. I happen to know that your job is not to censor dialogue that a few people might find annoying. I find dialogue here quite often that annoys the heck out of me but it doesn't break any forum rules.

[Stefan-A]

And she might even be misunderstanding what your job as a moderator is. At least that's what it sounds like. I happen to know that your job is not to censor dialogue that a few people might find annoying. I find dialogue here quite often that annoys the heck out of me but it doesn't break any forum rules.
Yeah, as I see it, moderating isn't needed until people are veering off topic or calling each other ****ing *******s.

[ConcinusMan]

Snow storm coming to the Willamette Valley floor / Portland area. Heaviest accumulations expected around 4am-10am tomorrow. We did get some snow off and on during the day today but no accumulations as it was just too warm. Just around 60 days ago we were experiencing record highs / severe annual rainfall deficit, longest dry spell since the 1970's, extremely low humidity. Now we're in an annual rainfall surplus and it's snowing.:rolleyes:

Oh, and of course, just as expected, the news reporting is putting a negative spin on MJ legalization. Someone was arrested today in Vancouver for driving under the influence and of course, they gotta put a spotlight on it. Fact is, there were more drug DUI's last year at this time (6) than this year (5) and they don't separate what type of drug it is. They're all lumped together. I guess my point is, they're bound determined to give the public the impression that incidents of DUI involving MJ are going up when in fact they aren't.

[guidofatherof5]

The poor persecuted dope smokers. My heart bleeds for them. Sounds like you're still not happy Richard.
Looks like you won't stop complaining until there are no restrictions.
The law was passed and you're still unhappy.
Give it a rest. Impaired driving is impaired driving and impaired drivers kill innocent people.
Smoke dope and get behind the wheel and you deserve to go to jail.

[ConcinusMan]

The poor persecuted dope smokers.

Don't even start that. It's not even about that. It's about the bull **** that the media pulls. It doesn't just apply to this. It applies to a lot of things. And I'm sure that a few years from now you'll try to use it as ammunition. You'll say that legalizing it caused more people to drive under the influence even if that is not truly the case. This isn't about the dope at all. It's about the misinformation that the media spreads then people such as yourself, buy into it.


The law was passed and you're still unhappy.

I'm not unhappy. I'm dissatisfied with the media. And quite frankly, the law passing really doesn't effect me anyway. I haven't even touched the stuff in months. It really only has an effect on those who are caught with it and that hasn't happened to me in many, many years anyway. Even then, nothing came of it. So really, there's no profound change that effects me personally.


Smoke dope and get behind the wheel and you deserve to go to jail.

You're darn right. My point is, a few people each year do go to jail. Always has been that way. But those incidents never even make it into the news reports. Now that it's legal, they're going to air it every time it happens. The result is, the public gets the impression that it's a new, or increasing problem even if it isn't. Get what I'm saying?

[ProXimuS]

Crazy thunderstorm just came through, seemingly out of nowhere. It just started pouring and the wind blowing like crazy, so I looked out the back door, and it was blowing so hard I could barely get the door back shut:eek: I'm going to stay up with my Tippy dog till it calms down.... She's terrified of storms.

[ProXimuS]

Well as quick as that storm rolled in, it rolled right back out. It was weird I was outside five minutes before the storm with no jacket, no problem. The storm lasted about 10 minutes. Went outside a little bit after that, FREEZING! That would be Texas weather for you....

[ConcinusMan]

Sounds like a cold front came in. Whenever you're right under the point where the cold air slams into the warm air, you're gonna get high winds. That happened here a couple of weeks ago. Wind gusts peaked at around 50mph.

[ProXimuS]

I think it was just a front. It'll probably be warm in a couple days any ways :D We had gusts around 55 last night apperantly.

[Stefan-A]

Just testing. The time in the picture was 02:39:01 at the time it was posted.

http://www.datapartner.fi/images/webcam/webcam.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Porvoo looks nice.

I can't wait until the auto resize gets fixed.:D

[Stefan-A]

Porvoo looks nice.

I can't wait until the auto resize gets fixed.:D

I can't wait until you get a 24" screen. :D

[ConcinusMan]

Looks fine to me. Fits perfectly. Right at top-to-bottom limits. Room to spare left-to-right. That's on a 24.5 inch 16:10 screen though. On the laptop, the right side isn't visible.

Just hold down CTRL and hit - until it fits Steve. Then CTRL + to put it back the way it was.

[Invisible Snake]

Porvoo looks nice.

I can't wait until the auto resize gets fixed.:D


I agree with you on both counts Steve, Porvo looks nice and I also can't wait till the auto resize gets fixed :l

Side note - I'm American and I have no idea where Porvo is. I don't want to speak for all Americans but the majority of us suck at geography

[Invisible Snake]

Walking Catfish, Demon Bat Among 126 New Mekong Species - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/walking-catfish-demon-bat-among-126-mekong-species-140429198.html)

[Stefan-A]

I agree with you on both counts Steve, Porvo looks nice and I also can't wait till the auto resize gets fixed :l

Side note - I'm American and I have no idea where Porvo is. I don't want to speak for all Americans but the majority of us suck at geography
Porvoo, two "O"s. Fennicized version of the Swedish name "Borgå", which consists of the word "borg", which means "fort" and "å", which means "river". So, a direct translation would be "River Fort".

Google maps has no trouble finding it.

Don't forget to refresh the page. ;) The picture updates itself every few minutes.

[guidofatherof5]

Here's an idea. Stefan, go to the location in the webcam.
Stand somewhere in its view. Screen shot it and post it.
We can play "Where's Stefan":D

[Stefan-A]

Here's an idea. Stefan, go to the location in the webcam.
Stand somewhere in its view. Screen shot it and post it.
We can play "Where's Stefan":D
Already thought about doing it. Decided it wasn't worth it. ;)

You can play "Where's Stefan" with this picture instead:
http://teemukoivisto.galleria.fi/kuvat/Lemmikkiel%C3%A4in+messut+2012,+Terraarioelaimet.n et/lemmikkimessut2012La-11.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

I won't play. I've done that page already.:D

[Stefan-A]

I won't play. I've done that page already.:D
I know. :D

[Invisible Snake]

You're not in the picture right Stefan?

[guidofatherof5]

You're not in the picture right Stefan?

He's there. See the little girl :D

Sorry Stefan. I just had to. :D

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Either he's the bloke in the background by the person wearing pink or he's in one of those boxes

[Invisible Snake]

I don't think he's in the picture, the ppl in the picture are smiling and having fun

[guidofatherof5]

This is an old one of Tank but seemed like a good time to post it.
This was about 12 pounds ago.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k501/guidofatherof5/merrychristmas.jpg

[ProXimuS]

Awwwww! Tank!

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I can't see it *sobs in corner*

[guidofatherof5]

I can't see it *sobs in corner*

Sent it to you in a PM from the forum gallery. That one was from photobucket.com


Duh. I'll just repost it.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//751/medium/santa_tank1.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

I have to laugh at this picture of Tank. Those skinny little legs and neck.:D
He was such a little turtle then.

[guidofatherof5]

A little over a year ago Tank weighed in at 10 lbs. My wish was that by the next Christmas he would be at 20 lbs.
With Christmas just a couple days away Tank weighed in at 19.60 lbs. He's an amazing growing machine.
Don't tell Tank but I got him a gal. of water conditioner for Christmas. It will go nice with his new water enclosure I'm going to pick up on Monday.
He's going from a 25 gal. round tub to a 50 gal. oval.
He's worth every dollar.

[EasternGirl]

Rode an old steam engine train with Santa on it with my son yesterday...it was really fun...and it beats waiting in line at the mall for Santa! This is probably the last year that my son will believe in Santa...so...I'm trying to make good memories. Off to shop for stocking stuffers today!

[Greg'sGarters]

I'm getting my snapping turtles some beef for Christmas. They LOVE beed but it isn't very healthy for them so I try to keep it to a minimum.

[ProXimuS]

7709

I saw this on facebook labeled as "Snake liquor-Vietnam":(

[EasternGirl]

Went out last night to a show to see my old punk friends from my teen years...my friend's band played and I saw friends I haven't seen in 25 years. It was so much fun. If you want to see something funny...watch a bunch of old forty-somethings slam dancing! Lol....Hey man...we're just keepin it real!

[Invisible Snake]

7741

"Hercules, the largest living cat on Earth, weighs over 904lbs with cub Aries"

[Invisible Snake]

7742

Huge King Cobra

[ProXimuS]

Do you know what kind of cat that is? It looks like a tiget but I wonder if it could be a "liger."

[Invisible Snake]

Do you know what kind of cat that is? It looks like a tiget but I wonder if it could be a "liger."

Idk for sure, it was being shared on FB and someone commented and said it was a Liger

[guidofatherof5]

My daughter Gabby brought a nice 24 hour bug into the house. Christmas night it hit my Son(Kale) and I. Nasty stuff.
Let's just say the bathroom is the only place you want to be during its onslaught:D
I can finally hold down water which is helping with the cramps from being dehydrated.
Felt like spray painting "Dead Inside" on the front door.:D

[ProXimuS]

Hope you guys are feeling better soon!

[snake man]

Well I made this for the caption contest and it closed so I'll put it here I guess.:cool:

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z438/redcar122/Pigpile_zps5b3185c5.jpg

[-MARWOLAETH-]

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/signaturepics/sigpic96208_1.gif

[snake man]

I like that one lol.

[tress29]

Indiana got a bunch of snow dumped on it yesterday! They measured 7.5" out at the airport. I shoveled 6" or so out of the bottom of my driveway. My friend lost power a half mile away, but we never did. I was glad, cause I didn't really want to snuggle a bunch of snakes in my bed! There isn't much room when you pile on a cat, two dogs, the portable dvd player, a stack of Harry Potter movies and a tablet PC! And a bowl of popcorn!!

It was especially fun cause our office doesn't close very often (Customs & Border Protection, National Finance Center!)

[ConcinusMan]

Price of milk is supposed to almost double in the next few days. So, if you need milk, I would suggest getting tonight or ASAP. Personally, I think it's way too high already so I will probably learn to live without it. Can always use powdered for recipes calling for milk.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Tehe :p

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u49/Janine_57/Fun%20stuff/happyeverything-1-1.jpg

[EasternGirl]

You know Steve...some of those nasty stomach bugs come with wicked stomach cramps. Rotovirus and norovirus...the two most common stomach bugs these days cause vomiting, diarrhea, and pretty severe stomach cramps. I have had both and they are not fun. They also are highly contagious. Both move through the system pretty violently and quickly. Glad you all survived it. I am hoping and praying that when I start my clinicals, I do not catch one of those bugs....having one of those once is enough for a lifetime.

We had some snow on Christmas Eve and Christmas...but both times it turned into rain....blah. We have yet to have a big snow storm. I am waiting....