In need of some help

[srockbubbles]

Hello everyone, I am new to the forum as well as new to the snake habitat. My children found a snake in the yard on Thursday August 15th and just had to keep it. I did alot of research and read I think almost all of the forums and I am thinking I have a little Northern Brown Snake. Seeing that they eat earthworms, night crawlers and slugs I have tried all of these with no luck. It is very active and doesn't appear to be in any health risk but since it hasn't ate anything I don't know if it is because it hasn't settled in yet and feels comfortable or if it isn't what I thought it was and doesn't like what I am trying to feed it. I have grown attached to the little thing and don't want to see anything happen to it due to my lack of knowledge. Can you guys please help me?
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[Stefan-A]

Looks like an Eastern Garter to me.

What are you trying to feed it? edit: sorry, you already told us.

[srockbubbles]

I have tried feeding it slugs, earthworms and very small pieces of nightcrawlers as it is so small.

[srockbubbles]

Sorry I keep calling him/her a it but I really don't know if it is a girl or boy...lol

[Stefan-A]

Try fish. Live or dead.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Agreed! It is a baby garter and if it won't take to worms in a few days you can try some feeder guppies from the pet shop! Most garters will eat worms though so don't give up on worms! What type of bedding are you using?
Looks like an Eastern Garter to me.

What are you trying to feed it?

[srockbubbles]

I tried some frozen tilapia that I had in the my freezer, and I cut it up into really little pieces because the poor little thing is only as big around as maybe a pencil and it had no interest in that either. As far as bedding at first I had pine shavings in the tote because that is what I had until I started reading all the posts and found out that it was so not good for it so I switched to just plain old paper towels for now so I could see if it was producing bowel movements or not and so far I haven't seen any but that would make sense if it hasn't ate anything either. I have some shredded paper in the tote so it can burrow and hide in at the one corner but I think my daughter peeking in on it all the time isn't helping matters either..lol

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry I keep calling him/her a it but I really don't know if it is a girl or boy...lol

It's a female from what I've seen.

[srockbubbles]

Well we named it spike so if it is a girl then we need a name change...lol...let me try and get a pic of the underside so someone can let me know for sure..

[srockbubbles]

Here is a picture of what the tote looks like right now as well as a pic of the underside..do we have a boy or girl?

[guidofatherof5]

Girl and a belly button.

[srockbubbles]

Belly button? Does that mean she is really young?

[srockbubbles]

So since our spike is a girl I guess we are renaming her to squirmy..lol

[chris-uk]

She probably just needs a bit more time to settle (but some garters just never adjust to captivity). Even a captive bred garter can go off food for a couple of weeks after moving home.
The belly button doesn't necessarily mean she's really young, but along with your description that she's about as round as a pencil it probably means she was born this year.

I'd suggest chucking a few bits of cardboard in there for her to hide under. Mine love cardboard tubes (toilet roll or kitchen roll), and given her size I'd suggest folding them in half along the length so it makes two smaller tubes.

Have you got heat or light setup for the tote? If so, what temperatures are you providing?

[srockbubbles]

She has a log with a cut out in it that she hides under all the time as well as where you see the majority of the shredded paper that is actually up on a little table like thing I made out of cardboard and toilet paper rolls cut in half, where she likes to hide under that as well..As far as light and heat, we don't have direct light or heat on here because I thought that she was a Eastern Brown Snake which didn't require either. She is in a well lite room though that provides her with both sunlight and shade.

[guidofatherof5]

Be very careful of the sunlight. The inside of an aquarium can heat up to deadly temps. very quickly.

[srockbubbles]

The sun doesn't reach her directly it just lights up the room..and I have her in a tote with a screen lid on top for ventilation..

[guidofatherof5]

The sun doesn't reach her directly it just lights up the room..and I have her in a tote with a screen lid on top for ventilation..

Okay. Sounds good.

[srockbubbles]

I know this is going to sound completely crazy but I was so excited to find some snake poop in squirmy's tote tonight..I have yet to get her to eat anything yet but excited to find poop...lol

[guidofatherof5]

I know this is going to sound completely crazy but I was so excited to find some snake poop in squirmy's tote tonight..I have yet to get her to eat anything yet but excited to find poop...lol

Nope, not crazy. Poops a good sign and can tell you a lot about the health(limited health) of your snake.

[srockbubbles]

Ok so since she is a Eastern Garter snake, do I still try feeding her the slugs as well as the earthworms or do I get rid of the slugs and stay with fish and nightcrawlers? Right now I don't have her tank with a light nor heat but is that something I ought to do or beings she is inside I can regulate that with the light in the room as well as the thermostat in the room. I have her in a spare bedroom right now where no one goes into hoping that if we leave her alone she will start eating and becoming more comfortable. I kind of feel bad because I thought she was a Brown Snake and was trying to keep her cooler rather then warmer. I hope I didn't mess her up. I have grown really attached to her and don't want to see anything happen to her.

[guidofatherof5]

I've got a message into Peter Mirick(508-389-6300) with MA Fish and Wildlife. I'll report back once I hear something.

[srockbubbles]

That would be greatly appreciated. Thank you guys so much for helping me with this little girl, I don't have any snake knowledge other then what I have read on the forums here and now that I know exactly what type of snake she is that ought to help me out a lot. Thank you again for all of your guys experience and advice it is greatly appreciated.

[guidofatherof5]

Just got off the photo with Mr. Mirick. According to him you may keep 2 of any unprotected snakes species in MA. You may give away or release any babies from those snakes. He hopes they would be released in the area the parent came from. Selling is a whole other ball game as that requires a permit. He said if you have any other questions feel free to contact him.
Peter Mirick 508-389-6300 MA Fish and Wildlife

[srockbubbles]

Oh Ok, well hopefully those same rules apply to Ohio as I live in Wood County Ohio. I have no intentions of keeping her to breed her, I just thought it would be really cool to keep her as a pet as long as she thrives in captivity beings that the kids found her. Which then brings back to my previous question:

Ok so since she is a Eastern Garter snake, do I still try feeding her the slugs as well as the earthworms or do I get rid of the slugs and stay with fish and nightcrawlers? Right now I don't have her tank with a light nor heat but is that something I ought to do or beings she is inside I can regulate that with the light in the room as well as the thermostat in the room. I have her in a spare bedroom right now where no one goes into hoping that if we leave her alone she will start eating and becoming more comfortable. I kind of feel bad because I thought she was a Brown Snake and was trying to keep her cooler rather then warmer. I hope I didn't mess her up. I have grown really attached to her and don't want to see anything happen to her.

[guidofatherof5]

Well, for some odd reason I thought you were in MA. I will give Ohio a call. Sorry about that.

[srockbubbles]

lol that is Ok, it is my fault for not knowing how to fix my profile to include all that information..Still new to all this

[guidofatherof5]

Here is a website the Ohio Dept. of wildlife suggested I look at. While I was on the phone with them (Debbie) said that T. siratis sirtalis - Eastern garter snake as a pet is a no-no as it is a species of concern. I also looked at T. radix - Plains garter snake and found they are on the "Endangered" list and also a no-no.

A-Z Reptiles and Amphibians (http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/species_a_to_z/AZReptilesandAmphibians/tabid/17914/Default.aspx)

[srockbubbles]

So she is saying I can't keep her then that I have to let her go? The picture of the Eastern GarterSnake doesn't look like my snake though..I am so confused and a little concerned now if I am not allowed to keep her.

[Mommy2many]

Can you post a clearer picture? It looks like a brown snake to me (Dekayi). You can try slugs, both Easterns and Dekayis like those!

[srockbubbles]

Here is a picture of her that I just took today after changing her tote..I think she really likes it, now if I can just get her to eat..:confused:

[guidofatherof5]

The upside down was freaking me out.:D Here are the same photos cropped for a better look.

Looks Storeria dekayi - Brown Snake to me now.


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/image1_crop.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/image2_crop.jpg

[Stefan-A]

That's still an Eastern Garter to me.

[infernalis]

That's still an Eastern Garter to me.

Yes it is, I have seen that same copper/brown colouration in my own back yard.

Second giveaway, the eyes are too big. ;)

[infernalis]

Try a small live fish. sometimes the motion will trigger a feeding response.

[guidofatherof5]

Yes it is, I have seen that same copper/brown colouration in my own back yard.

Second giveaway, the eyes are too big. ;)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.:D

[srockbubbles]

Going to the pet store today, will get some feeder guppies and see what she does with them. Put some cut up night crawlers in there with her last night and they are still untouched:(...It has only been a week since we have had her and with her being so small it is probably just taking her longer to feel comfy, or so I am hoping..And Thanks Steve for fixing my pics, haven't figured out how to do that yet on here..lol

[guidofatherof5]

If you are using Windows you can probably rotate and save them in "picture viewer"

[Mommy2many]

Thanks for the better picture. Now I can see the eyes better; before she did look like a Dekayi. Very pretty little snake!

[guidofatherof5]

Here is a website the Ohio Dept. of wildlife suggested I look at. While I was on the phone with them (Debbie) said that T. siratis sirtalis - Eastern garter snake as a pet is a no-no as it is a species of concern. I also looked at T. radix - Plains garter snake and found they are on the "Endangered" list and also a no-no.

A-Z Reptiles and Amphibians (http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/species_a_to_z/AZReptilesandAmphibians/tabid/17914/Default.aspx)

I hate it when I talk to people who are suppose to know the law and accurately interpret it and they don't. My friend Steve Schmidt did some digging into Ohio's laws and found that a permit is available to keep native species.
Reptiles & Amphibians Licensing and Regulations (http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/LawSubhome/ReptilesAmphibians/tabid/15493/Default.aspx#can_do)
I did copy and paste a few things that are relative to your situation.


What You Can Legally Do with a License

A propagating license application must be requested from the Division of Wildlife within 10 days after taking possession of any native reptile, amphibian or wood turtle (Clemmys insculpta).
With a propagating license, except for state endangered species, an Ohio resident may possess:


four total individuals of each wild-captured native reptile or amphibian from the list below entitled “Wild-captured Native Reptiles and Amphibians”; and/or
an unlimited number of animals captively produced or legally obtained from out of state, with proper documentation.

A $40 commercial propagating license is required for people wishing to sell, offer for sale, trade, or barter native reptiles or amphibians which have been captively produced, legal*ly obtained from out of state, or are the offspring of wild-captured animals. With this license, the license holder may possess for sale, trade or barter an unlimited number of reptiles and amphibians that are captively produced or legally obtained, with proper documentation.
A $25 noncommercial propagating license is required for people who perma*nently possess native reptiles or amphibians but do not intend to sell, offer for sale, trade or barter animals. The license holder may possess an unlimited number of reptiles and/or amphibians of which only four total individuals of each reptile or amphibian have been taken from the wild.
Except for bullfrogs, green frogs, snapping or softshell turtles that can be harvested with a fishing license, a nonresident cannot take from the wild native reptiles or amphibians, live or dead.
Reptiles or amphibians taken from the wild in Ohio may NOT be bought, offered for sale, traded, bartered, or given as a gift.

Wild-Captured Native Reptiles and Amphibians

Only Ohio residents may possess a total of four individuals from any of the following reptile or amphibian species or any hybrids taken from the wild.

Snakes

Queensnake (Regina septemvittata)
Common Watersnake (Nerodia sipedon sipedon)
Northern Brownsnake (Storeria dekayi dekayi)
Midland Brownsnake (Storeria dekayi wrightorum)
Northern Red-bellied Snake (Storeria occipitomaculata occipitomaculata)
Eastern Gartersnake (Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis)
Butler’s Gartersnake (Thamnophis butleri)
Common Ribbonsnake (Thamnophis sauritus sauritus)
Northern Ribbonsnake (Thamnophis sauritus septentrionalis)
Eastern Hog-nosed Snake (Heterodon platirhinos)
Eastern Smooth Earthsnake (Virginia valeriae valeriae)
Northern Ring-necked Snake (Diadophis punctatus edwardsii)
Midwestern Wormsnake (Carphophis amoenus helenae)
Eastern Wormsnake (Carphophis amoenus amoenus)
Northern Black Racer (Coluber constrictor constrictor)
Blue Racer (Coluber constrictor foxii)
Smooth Greensnake (Opheodrys vernalis)
Eastern Ratsnake/Black Ratsnake (Pantherophis alleghaniensis)
Eastern Milksnake (Lampropeltis triangulum triangulum)
Northern Copperhead (Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen)

[srockbubbles]

I went ahead and got the commercial license that way if for some odd reason we find another and they mate and have little ones I can sell or give them away. Again Steve thank you for all your help with all of this..it has been greatly appreciated..

[guidofatherof5]

I went ahead and got the commercial license that way if for some odd reason we find another and they mate and have little ones I can sell or give them away. Again Steve thank you for all your help with all of this..it has been greatly appreciated..

Much of that thanks should go to Steve Schmidt. He did the looking and I did the posting.

[srockbubbles]

I am sooooo excited everyone, today squirt ate her first gubby..now mind you this is the first that she has ate since we have gotten her. I was so excited I could have cried..lol..now mind you I was holding the gubby by a pair of hemostats when she took it, so when she was finished with that I grabbed a chunk of nightcrawler with the hemostats and she goobled that down as well..I am so proud of her and it puts me at a little more ease..Who would have thought that it would have taken a pair of hemostats for the first meal, I figured she would eat on her own and gradually move up to them...oh well she is eating and I am happy...

[guidofatherof5]

I am sooooo excited everyone, today squirt ate her first gubby..now mind you this is the first that she has ate since we have gotten her. I was so excited I could have cried..lol..now mind you I was holding the gubby by a pair of hemostats when she took it, so when she was finished with that I grabbed a chunk of nightcrawler with the hemostats and she goobled that down as well..I am so proud of her and it puts me at a little more ease..Who would have thought that it would have taken a pair of hemostats for the first meal, I figured she would eat on her own and gradually move up to them...oh well she is eating and I am happy...

You have the right to be excited. Great update.