PLEASE Help

[05brandon50]

Hey guys
My garter Rita is really sick. I found her laid out in her tank motionless. I waved my hand past the glass a few times and where she would normally be very inquisitive, she wasn't. She just laid there and barely moved. The one things I could think of was that she had reguratated and I had been feeding her her usual silversides but on one I dusted ever so slightly with a vitamin supplement, barely any. It wasn't an overly large meal either. Her water was a little low but that's all that I can think of. I replenished her water and picked her up gently and she started spasming violently as if she was trying to throw up more. After she calmed down I placed her near the water and she took a few gulps but that's it. i have since turned off her light and she is still just laying there, motionless but alive. I don't have a very good exotic reptile vet near me (the last and only one remotely close to me was the one who killed my cham right in front of me). I'm not sure if this is normal behavior after regurging but I have owned exotic reptiles my whole life and have experience with snakes but I have no idea what's wrong... PLEASE I know there are none/not many vets on here but at the moment, it's the best option I have so if there are any ideas of ways I can help her please let me know as I don't want to lose my beloved pet..

[d_virginiana]

There is no need to dust food with vitamins if an animal is eating prey with bones (that includes silversides).

What sort of vitamin supplement? Some contain phosphate which can affect absorption of certain vitamins and minerals. I don't know if the vitamin dusting is what caused it, since it was a very small amount, but I have heard of frogs going into seizures when people over-supplement. On the other hand, those were situations that you heard what the person said and thought "You idiot, why would you even do that?!". Which isn't the case here. I think the only way the vitamin supplement could have caused this is if your snake happened to be unusually sensitive.

If you can't get her to a vet, try and get her to drink fairly often. It may help flush out her system. Also, if she eats, try feeding only nightcrawlers for awhile. They go more quickly through the digestive system, and would help cleanse out anything in there quicker.

If this is a neurological issue, it may not get better. You can only wait and see.

[Stefan-A]

Sorry to hear this happened. I wish I had something useful or maybe just uplifting to say, but it doesn't look good.

[chris-uk]

I hope you've seen an improvement since you posted. The symptoms you describe aren't good, all you can do is keep trying to get her to drink.
Threads that start with symptoms that you've described rarely have a happy ending, so whilst I don't like to be the one to bring it up you may want to consider your options for euthanasia. :(

[guidofatherof5]

Hope there has been some improvement overnight. What sort of diet has Rita been on?

[05brandon50]

Thank you everyone for the input.. I had to leave very early for work today but I made sure I put a few shallow water dishes all through her cage, one with a light solution of water and pedialite as I am sort of thinking it is dehydration..


Hope there has been some improvement overnight. What sort of diet has Rita been on?

She's just been on a diet mainly consisting of f/t silversides and a few pinkie mice once in a while. Like I said the last and only time I ever offered her a supplement was the last time I fed her about two days ago and she regurged/vomitted it yesterday..

I've been so upset crying lots ever since last night asI watched her in her cage as she just sat there suffering. I'm afraid to go home and check up on her... I don't know what to do :(

[guidofatherof5]

You're doing just fine. It's hard when one of our animals is sick.

[EKS56]

:(
I hope she gets better.

[Mommy2many]

Thoughts and prayers with you and Rita. How old is Rita? I have to agree that the symptoms do not sound good and you are doing everything you can. It is very hard to watch our beloved pets suffer and we can't help them. Keep with the water, that is more important than food. Keep us updated.

[05brandon50]

Update:

I just came home and she was at least under her hide rather than just laying out in the open. I lifted it up to see if she had passed or not and she started spasming more violently than the first time and spinning much like an aligator would with her mouth open... This is so hard to watch... :(

Someone had asked if te vitamin supplement had Phosphorus in it and yes, it is 10%. Could that be the issue? Like I said I used a tiny tiny amount of it, barely anything on her most recent feed teo days ago...

I'm at the point where if there's no clear cure then I just want her out of her misery... I did a huge amount of research on garters before I got her but apparently not enough. The feeling of watching her suffer is unbearable :/

[guidofatherof5]

The final decision has to be yours but it does sound like she's suffering or at least at a point where recovery is unlikely. Nailing the cause down to the phosphorus is next to impossible. It does sound like she has been on a more fish diet then anything else. That maybe more of an issue in my opinion but this isn't the time for that.
Rita needs some sort of help whether it be a Vet. (I don't think there is much they can do at this point) or putting her down.
Garters are very good at hiding(not showing) health issues until it becomes critical. With that in mind a keeper must realize there will be unexpected deaths that will never be explained.
Prayers are going out to both you and Rita.

[d_virginiana]

The only reason I asked about phosphorous was that it can cause issues with calcium uptake. I was being hopeful that you might be dealing with some sort of tox or calcium/phosphorous balance problem, as that would have a better prognosis. That being said, I REALLY doubt what little supplement you gave her did this. If it did then there was something very wrong with her system already that you couldn't have known about or fixed.

It's up to you what to do, but like Steve said, I doubt there's much that can be done. For now, maybe just leave her under a hide if she's being still and resting. You may want to look into euthanasia procedures in case things get worse just so you're prepared. :(

[Mommy2many]

Does this sound like a thiamese reaction?

[guidofatherof5]

Does this sound like a thiamese reaction?

Could be that or many other things unfortunately.

[gibble888]

I had a female that was spasming just like you say....i was new with garters and before i could do anything she was gone...only had her for two days. The research i did made me think it was thaimese but im just guessing. Hope it helps...good luck and god bless.

[EasternBlackNeckedGarter]

Oi vey, That's hard to read. I really do hope Rita gets better. Best wishes.

[Light of Dae]

I wonder about heavy metals in silversides... Or any wild caught fish for that matter. Thats why I feed worms, chicken heart, pinkies and some farmed fish like salmon or tilapia, fish always have to be fresh never frozen.

It's not your fault. It truly isn't. You did everything within your knowledge to give her the best possible life. It could have been any number of things. But you followed the caresheet and were feeding her a safe fish.
Hugs, It's not easy losing a much beloved snake.

[05brandon50]

Does this sound like a thiamese reaction?

I have had her since she was just inches in length from Scott and have only ever fed her an "approved" diet.. :(

Update:
She is still just laying in her cage, her body still softly breathing as she just lays there... This is awful. This is one of the reasons I will never own any more chameleons because they die slow deaths as well and seeing my beloved pets that I've spent countless hours caring for waste away is horrible. Anyone have any "at home" ways of putting her to sleep without just like smashing her with somthing? Ugh the mere thought of trying to find ways to put her out of her misery is killing me :(

[Light of Dae]

fridge for a few hours to softly put her to sleep n cool her down, slow her system, then freezer.

Thoughts n prayers with you. not easy.

[Mommy2many]

Light Of Dae has the best solution that I know of. Steve, any other ideas?
This is not easy for you and I do not envy your position. I have been "lucky" in the aspect that mine have passed without watching them suffer.
Except for two of my frogs. Different story. It is not easy watching a loved one suffer. I hope you can find peace in whatever you need to do to help Rita. Prayers are with you both.

[Mommy2many]

Sometimes our "friends" develope neurological issues. That could be what is going on here. I am glad to hear that you have had her since she was "inches" long and that she came from Scott. Some things are not preventable or treatable. Rest assured you have done everything you can.

[chris-uk]

I wonder about heavy metals in silversides...

Silversides aren't long lived fish, heavy metals are normally only a problem in fish that live long enough for the metals to accumulate in the flesh. I wouldn't blame the silverside diet.


fridge for a few hours to softly put her to sleep n cool her down, slow her system, then freezer.

Thoughts n prayers with you. not easy.

There's evidence that chilling and freezing is not painless for reptiles.
Steve has a method using dry ice to asphyxiate them. In the UK dry ice isn't easy to buy. Other methods would all involve rapid destruction of the brain, I wouldn't want to smash my snake's heads but I could probably bring myself to push a scalpel into the base of the skull and give it a wiggle.
Search for "euthanasia" on the forum and you'll find discussion about methods and pros and cons.

I'm sorry to hear that things haven't improved.

[guidofatherof5]

I have had her since she was just inches in length from Scott and have only ever fed her an "approved" diet.. :(


No offense was meant by anyone. We are just brainstorming ideas as to a possible cause. There is still so much we don't know about garters. Troubles like this occur sometimes even with the best of care.

[05brandon50]

Other methods would all involve rapid destruction of the brain, I wouldn't want to smash my snake's heads but I could probably bring myself to push a scalpel into the base of the skull and give it a wiggle.
Search for "euthanasia" on the forum and you'll find discussion about methods and pros and cons.

I couldn't bring myself to do that method let alone put her in the fridge.



No offense was meant by anyone. We are just brainstorming ideas as to a possible cause. There is still so much we don't know about garters. Troubles like this occur sometimes even with the best of care.


I know, I wasn't taking offense to it I was just saying that I wasn't going against the rules or doing anything abnormal like feeding her goldfish or wrigglers


I have decided to go and get dry ice and use it to create CO2 today if I come home to find her still suffering. Thank you all for your continued support. Never in my life would I have thought I was going to have to kill one of my own snakes.. This is heart breaking :(

[guidofatherof5]

You are doing the humane thing her.

[chris-uk]

This is heart breaking :(

The fact that it is heart-breaking means that you care. When I had to euthanise one of my checkered scrubs that hadn't eaten for 4 months and started to convulse I cried for an hour - it still upsets me to think of it 18 months later. Don't consider that you are "killing one of your own snakes", if you do need to do it you aren't doing it for your own gratification, you're doing it because she is suffering.

[d_virginiana]

With a lot of herps I think in-home euthanasia is more humane than having a vet do it, just because they get so stressed out by being transported or put in strange situations. You're doing the right thing.

[05brandon50]

I just put her in an almost covered container with a cup of water and dry ice... I feel terrible. My dad told me right before , "What if she could've gotten better?" That literally makes me feel like a monster right now... The fog the dry ice creates at least makes it so I can't see her... I can't believe I had to do this.. :(

[05brandon50]

Rita has passed and been buried . Thank you all for your continued support through this and all the times in the past. I only wish I could've been a better owner. :(

[chris-uk]

Rita has passed and been buried . Thank you all for your continued support through this and all the times in the past. I only wish I could've been a better owner. :(

I'm sorry for your loss. A worse owner would have prolonged her discomfort, and wouldn't feel like a piece of crap like you do right now.
I can honestly say that from your first post in this thread there wasn't any real hope of a recovery, seizures are almost invariably the start of a rapid decline and I don't think you'll find a single thread on the forum where a garter has recovered from multiple seizures. This won't make you feel much better at this point, but you have been unlucky and I hope you will find another garter to keep when you've got over this loss.

[d_virginiana]

I think there was one where a snake 'recovered' and stopped seizing but ended up being so disabled that it had to be euthanized anyway (I think there were 2 ribbons involved, and one died from the seizures and the other had to be put down). It's not like with dogs/cats where they can get the emotional benefits of spending more time with people; keeping them around when they're suffering is just frightening.
But seriously, you did the right thing. There's no 'getting better' from that.

[EasternGirl]

I agree with everyone else. I have had to watch a couple of my snakes pass, and when they get to the point where they are just lying there slowly breathing like you said, they are about to pass on. You obviously loved her very much and you did what you did to ease her suffering. You are not a monster...you are a good snake owner. I know how hard this is...I do feel your pain right now. I am so very sorry for your loss and you and Rita are in my thoughts and prayers. Rest in peace little Rita.

[Mommy2many]

Brandon, I am so sorry for your loss and the pain you are suffering. You were the best companion Rita could have, please don't doubt that. As said in a previous post, the snakes who have presented with the neurological issues and seizures never recover. You did a very difficult and humane thing for her, to end her suffering. I have had to do this for my frogs and it is the most difficult thing in the world, next to watching them suffer. Please know you are in our thoughts and prayers.

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry to hear of your loss.