Hello!

[Zia]

Hi everyone! My name is Kylie, and I currently have two garters. I've had an albino checkered garter for about a year now, and just last night was at my LPS and they had a "Florida Blue"... I couldn't resist, and she's home with me now too!

For all that I've had the albino checkered for over a year now, I'm just starting the process in really learning about garters, so please forgive me if I don't use the right terms and scientific names just yet lol. I've decided that these little guys are "my" snake, and want to get more in the future. Before I do that, I want to make sure I'm read up on them!

The catch is that I do live in Georgia, one of the few states where native garters are illegal to own. So supposedly, eastern garters are a no go for me... but doing some research this morning, it sounds like my new "Florida Blue" is actually a blue eastern, and she was displayed rather proudly at the store. The guy who sold her to me (who DOES know his snakes... at least his pythons and boas) said he thought she was a cross between a checkered and a blue sided, and had bought her at the Repticon show in Atlanta the weekend before. So, between what he said, that the seller could sell him at the show, and that most people here don't know one snake from another to save their life, I think I'd be pretty safe with eastern morphs. Not that I want to tempt fate by seeking them out, but I'm not giving up my new girl.

So! I'm here now, reading everything I can, and hope to be around for a while! I will put up pictures in the next post. :)

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard.

[jwolfe152]

Welcome to the best tham forum there is :D

[chris-uk]

Welcome aboard.

The guy that sold you your Florida Blue might know some snakes, but clearly not garters. It's not going to be a cross of a checkered and a "blue sided", because there is no such thing as a blue sided garter...
You're correct that the Florida Blue is an Eastern (T. sirtalis sirtalis), so you could have a legal grey area. Hopefully there's some common sense in the law and having one privately won't be an issue.

Shout if you have questions that you can't find old answers to.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you with us. Here's a link to the forum care sheet which is always a good read. Feel free to post any other question to the forum members. We will do our best to give you some prompt answers. Chris is spot-on with his information on the species you have.

I called The Georgia Dept. of Natural Resources and spoke to Miss Hawkins (Special Permits-770-761-3044) According to her you may not keep any native non-venomous snake as a pet. They can only be kept using an "education permit". I asked her if that included any subspecies of Thamnophis sirtalis. She said yes. I pressed her with an example of T.s.parietalis - Red Sided Garter that doesn't even range in GA. She said "rule of thumb is NO" I then asked about T. radix - Plains Garter Snake which doesn't range in GA. She seemed unsure as to what to say and referred me to the State Herpetologist (John Jensen 478-994-1438) I called that number and Mr. Jensen is out of the office until Monday. I will try to make contact with him next week.

Here's some info. I found very surprising. No permit is need to keep a native venomous snake:eek: So, keep all the venomous snakes you want but don't you dare keep a garter snake.:confused:
Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//744/medium/welcome.jpg

[indigoman]

Welcome aboard!

[jwolfe152]

Here's some info. I found very surprising. No permit is need to keep a native venomous snake:eek: So, keep all the venomous snakes you want but don't you dare keep a garter snake.:confused:

lol backassward laws people come up with :rolleyes:

[Zia]

Oh wow, thank you so much for making the contact! That's above and beyond anything I've experienced on a forum before!

I was just going to operate on a "don't ask don't tell" policy because I don't think most people would know enough to have an issue with my having her, but if it seems like it will be a big threat to her safety I will find her someplace that can take her. My albino checkered lives at my office, which is on a military installation, and the environmental/wildlife guys have all seen her and almost no one has even questioned that I have a garter in GA. The one person who did ask, it was just a curious "I thought garters were illegal in GA?" When I told him she wasn't a species that was native he was like "Oh, ok!" and moved on in the conversation. So I was going to use the line "She was sold to me as a checkered hybrid" and play dumb if I was ever questioned about the new girl. Again though, if the general consensus is that this might be dangerous for her then I will find someplace for her... and will put off future plans of garter ownership until I'm out of this silly state. Or just start keeping rattlesnakes!:p

I've been reading a lot on the forum, you guys have a ton of good knowledge that I am excited to put into practice!

[guidofatherof5]

If this is a hybrid or there is any chance it could be a hybrid I suggest you keep it. Releasing it could have a terrible effect on the wild gene pool. I'm sure GA is much like other States, they have bigger things on their plate then to worry about someone keeping a native garter as a pet. Your "don't ask, don't tell" idea seems fine to me.
I'll gather more information on the legal part of this situation on Monday.

[Zia]

I am 99.9% sure she is not a hybrid. And I would never release her. I was told she was five years old and has been in captivity that whole time. I would find a nature center or something of the sort.


Sorry for the less than perfect picture, I rely on my cell phone camera way too much.

[jwolfe152]

wow thats a pretty eastern, i have 4 WC all with different tinges of color brown, yellow, and one thats a blueish green that looks a little like your but mine is not so bright, if it is soaking in its bowl you can really see the color in it.

[chris-uk]

I am 99.9% sure she is not a hybrid. And I would never release her. I was told she was five years old and has been in captivity that whole time. I would find a nature center or something of the sort.


Sorry for the less than perfect picture, I rely on my cell phone camera way too much.

If you were ever pressed as to what she is by someone who might have an interest in enforcing the law, then I'd suggest that your official line should be to state that she isn't a T. sirtalis species at all... The chances are that most people would be unable to identify her accurately, and if you argued that she was a T. marcianus or a T. radix morph, that they wouldn't be in a position to argue too much.

Maybe we should have a competition on the forum to come up with the closest matching species to your photograph that isn't a garter snake native to Georgia?

But I'd wait until Steve has spoken to the state herpetologist, he can get all the information you need without you raising your head above the parapet and asking questions yourself.

[gregmonsta]

Greetings :D

[jwolfe152]

Maybe we should have a competition on the forum to come up with the closest matching species to your photograph that isn't a garter snake native to Georgia?


that sounds like a great idea

[guidofatherof5]

I spoke to Mr. Jensen today. He is one of the GA. State Herpetologists.
According to him, no T.sirtalis or any of its subspecies can be kept as a pet in the State of GA. That includes any T. sirtalis or subspecies that are born in other States.
Permits can be obtained to keep them if they are part of an educational, study or display program.
Any non-native species of garter can be kept as a pet without and permit unless there is some other law(Fed. protected or endangered species) prohibits keeping them.

[Zia]

That just about meshes with what I was able to find out. I wonder if I would have a case for some sort of permit since I'm highly involved in animal rescue here, and am going to school within the next year to be a vet tech. Probably not though. I do think I might check with an educational center close to me about if they might want her, they have several other native species and I really like their setup. I would also not be opposed to selling her to someone on this forum because I know she would get good care, but I have no experience with shipping snakes so I'd need to be walked though it. It's a shame, I do really want to keep her, she's fantastic. But I'm also worried that if she ever was discovered that some harm would come to her. I'm kind of at a loss. So, in the opinions of people on this forum, go with "don't ask don't tell", or re-home her just in case?

Thank you again for putting in the time and effort to make the calls. I really do appreciate it. :)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Hey Zia, This snake used to belong to me and I sold her a few weeks ago at the Columbia repticon show! She is a wildcaught garter that was sold to me as a florida blue striped (thamnophis sirtalis similis) however she appears to be a naturally occurring intergrade of a florida blue eastern and florida bluestriped similis. Several breeders and florida natives said she was a pure similis, but most similis don't have the heavy checkered pattern so I think she could be an intergrade and that's why i decided not to keep her since I didn't plan to breed her.I told the guy who I sold her to that she should only be sold as pet and not a breeder even though it happens in the wild all the time I would like to keep the captive similis as pure as possible! She is not a hybrid and might even be a pure similis, but the heavy checkered makes me think intergrade. She is a very nice snake and will make a great pet!

[guidofatherof5]

That just about meshes with what I was able to find out. I wonder if I would have a case for some sort of permit since I'm highly involved in animal rescue here, and am going to school within the next year to be a vet tech. Probably not though. I do think I might check with an educational center close to me about if they might want her, they have several other native species and I really like their setup. I would also not be opposed to selling her to someone on this forum because I know she would get good care, but I have no experience with shipping snakes so I'd need to be walked though it. It's a shame, I do really want to keep her, she's fantastic. But I'm also worried that if she ever was discovered that some harm would come to her. I'm kind of at a loss. So, in the opinions of people on this forum, go with "don't ask don't tell", or re-home her just in case?

Thank you again for putting in the time and effort to make the calls. I really do appreciate it. :)

The priorities for most DNR offices doesn't involve garter snakes. They've got much more pressing issues to deal with. I would think the chances of you getting a visit from them because of that snake would be very slim to none.
The final call does rest with you though.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

This snake was caught 4 years ago as a suspected yearling in levy county florida! She feeds on mice very well!

[Zia]

Oh wow! It's nice to hear about her from who she actually came from, and her real story! She was purchased at the Atlanta repticon on the 27th/28th of July, and then by me on the 31st of July. She has settled in and has gone to town on mice and feeder guppies. I completely adore her as a pet, and have no plans to breed her. I follow the same line of thinking, that the DNR office has enough to worry about and that she should be fine in my possession. I only brought it up because I do want to do what is in the best interest of her, and didn't know if you guys had some horror stories of snake raids for one pet or something lol.

[guidofatherof5]

I think DNR gets involved when someone is breeding and selling native snakes on a larger scale. Obviously, you shouldn't advertise the facts relating to this snake. Sometimes people get turned in simply because the caller has nothing better to do. I think you and her will be a good mix.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

The guy who bought her from me at repticon columbia must have turned around and sold her at the repticon atlanta show! I'm glad you ended up with her and i'm glad you came here for advice.
oh wow! It's nice to hear about her from who she actually came from, and her real story! She was purchased at the atlanta repticon on the 27th/28th of july, and then by me on the 31st of july. She has settled in and has gone to town on mice and feeder guppies. I completely adore her as a pet, and have no plans to breed her. I follow the same line of thinking, that the dnr office has enough to worry about and that she should be fine in my possession. I only brought it up because i do want to do what is in the best interest of her, and didn't know if you guys had some horror stories of snake raids for one pet or something lol.