Chris' garters

[chris-uk]

I've not updated the forum properly for a while, but after meeting Greg (again) and Steven Bol (for the first time) at Doncaster yesterday, and picking up a couple of babies while I was there, I figured it might be time for me to do a quick update on my brood.

The garter snake count is currently standing at 17... so from 1 to 17 in a little less than 3 years the bug has truly bitten me. So I'll run through the brood in the order I acquired them.

Binky belongs to the wife, she started us off. Binky is a female albino Checkered Garter (CB11). She's great to hold because she's quite calm and doesn't make the quick movements that some of the others do. We've never had a problem with her eating or shedding, other than the sheds often being a surprise because her eyes don't blue up as obviously as the others.

Eskerina is the only one I still have of the CB11 normal Checkered Garters that John McCann gave me, one of her sisters lives with our friends 2 minutes away, and the two others FTT. She's growing slowly which I think is partly related to the kinks in her spine, I'm not sure how but she doesn't seem to grow much longer, when I let her eat more she turns into a fat sausage.

Next up the Lake Cuitzeo Garters (CB10) - Laccrimosa and Vladamir.
Lacci is the biggest of my garters, length is somewhere north of 100cm and weighs in at around 400g at the moment. She's currently living with a radix and a paritalis in my largest viv (120x60x60cm, granite effect background, big swimming pool with real Dartmoor granite islands, heated shelf with warm hide underneath, LED spot and strip lights... it's a palace of of viv, I really should do a thread about building it...). Lacci happily comes to the viv door to investigate when I open it, but often waits for Nobby to check that all is safe first.
Vlad is much more timid and will usually go and hide when I open his viv, he's shacked up with a radix who's the opposite. He eats more sporadically and hasn't grown very quickly.
I'll give this pair a chance to mate in the Autumn as that seems to be when they are most actively courting (according to information from Steve Bol) and I want to produce my next generation of Cuitzeos next year. I won't be keeping them together permanently, I don't think it would do them any harm, but I don't want more than one litter.

Next in were the Western Blacknecks (CB11) - Sybil and Vimes. They're my slowest growing and most frustrating to feed. Vimes is worse than Sybil, but both went for 6 months without eating over the winter.
Sybil is now living with the checkered girls (Binky and Esk) but I have to take her out to feed because she likes to take her time and the checkereds would have scoffed her food before she'd even come out.
Vimes lives on his own and is very much a hider. He's a "look don't touch" snake.

Nobby, the WC "northern" T. s. parietalis was my rash purchase from a shop, I've got her down as being a 2011 snake from Canada, but who knows with snakes imported as "Northern Garters". She's actually a challenger for "Most Friendly Garter" award, always at the glass watching me when I'm in the room, and she's Lacci's best friend (they are almost always curled up together).

So the count is on seven so far...

Next in were the two snakes I wish I didn't own...
Adora Belle and Lipwig belonged to John and are the two that I took in when he was in hospital. They are both Plains Garters, probably captive bred in Europe but age and origin unknown (John rescued them from a Preloved ad). Both are really outgoing friendly snakes that enjoy being held, Lipwig is the best finger-winder I've got. Adora I think is actually quite old, and last she threw jellybeans for a couple of months, this year she threw a couple, so I've decided that she isn't ever going to reproduce for me.
Lipwig has a really bright orange stripe and I want to breed him to get another generation. He has a younger girlfriend in the wings (I've not told Adora yet).

Next up are three from Sjoerd (Reptileparadise) that I picked up last September. Two female and one male California Red-sided Garters (CB12). We have Disco, Dante and Towering. All voracious eaters and the only ones I take out of their viv to feed for fear that they will eat each other - Disco in particular is one that will go for the food that one of the others is already swallowing rather than the bit of food under her own nose. They're growing quickly and in two years time I plan to breed both the girls to a younger, but unrelated male.

Then there's another one of Char's snakes, Twoflower, our male, CB12, San Francisco Garter from Fons. He was bigger than the infernalis last September, but had a long fast after Christmas, he was in a viv on his own but now his quarantine is over he's living with "The Infernal Three". He's eating pretty well at the moment, but won't catchup with the infernalis after missing nearly 3 months of feeds.

Next up are two normal checkereds - Esme and Gytha. Probably CB11. But these are a couple more rescued snakes, they came to me via Greg after a keeper in Scotland died and one his friends was looking for homes for them.
Esme is responsible for my worst bite. Both of them are skittish and defensive, I suspect that they've been fed live mice at some point and possibly not been handled too well. Both have kinked spines and bug eyes, so neither will ever breed but have a comfortable viv (currently behind me in my office - this morning I turned around to find Esme sneaking up on me, I'm hoping living in the room I work from will help them adjust).

Finally, the last two are little scrubs I picked up on Sunday from Greg and Steve Bol (two of the best people currently working with garters who I've had the pleasure of meeting).

From Greg is a beautiful radix girl, with an orange stripe. Violet is going to Lipwig's mate in a few years.
From Steve another infernalis. Blazing is a Sonoma County infernalis and unrelated to the two girls I got last year, so 2015 is looking like a good breeding year if all works out to plan.
The two little scrubs are currently settling in, I've seen plenty of Violet, but not so much of Blazing. I'll try them on a feed this evening and see how they get on with some small bits of fish. These are actually the smallest scrubs I've had, the checkereds I got from John were a month older by the time I got them, and these are a fraction the size of the Cuitzeo baby that Lacci had last year.

So, here's a little roundup of the current residents of my viv collection, I thought it was about time I had a post to drop in little observations about my guys other than the thread I have for the Cuitzeos. Sorry there aren't any pics in the post, I thought it was long enough and my camera got dropped a couple of weeks back (a smartphone camera just doesn't do the macros well enough).

[guidofatherof5]

Great update. Thanks Chris.

[chris-uk]

Another good update. Both the tiny radix girl and the little infernalis enjoyed a meal of trout this evening. :)

[reptileparadise]

I'm certainly not the only one missing pics! :D

[gregmonsta]

Yeah, pics or it didn't happen :p!!! Glad to hear the little orange monster hasn't skipped a beat. They were very eager feeders in that litter. Mine will have to wait 'till tomorrow as I only just got back a couple of hours ago.

[chris-uk]

Update.

With a couple of photos this time. After dropping my Canon G9 a few month back I've finally got round to replacing it, photos of the squigglies will be taken with a Panasonic GF6 from here on. And I have to say I'm impressed so far, very little shutter lag and good burst shooting means that tongue shots are much easier to capture. The only drawback is that the Canon had a good macro mode which allowed me to focus down to 1cm, my current lens is closer to 15cm minimum... looks like I need a macro lens, or maybe some macro extension tubes.

Both the tiddlers are doing well, they both eat consistently every 2-3 days so are growing nicely.
I got the name of the radix girl wrong in my post above, she's not called Violet, she's called Iodine. I don't know how I got the name wrong.

Anyway, the crux of today's post. Blazing shed this morning. He managed to leave the top of his head (extending about 2cm down the top of his neck) somewhere in the substrate, so having found the incomplete shed I checked him under the magnifier and couldn't see any sign of retained shed. I got musked for my efforts. After 10 minutes sifting the substrate I found the missing piece of shed, so that saved the little guy a trip to a shed box.

While he was out I snapped a few photos of him freshly shed -

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/Blazing_-_hour_after_shed_-_P1000805.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12026&title=blazingtsinfernalis&cat=734)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/Blazing_-_hour_after_shed_2_-_P1000806.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12027&title=blazingtsinfernalis&cat=734)


Just so Steve (and Greg) don't complain about the lack of radix shots, here's one of Iodine just before she shed last -

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/Iodine_-_pre-shed_-_P1000397.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12028&title=iodinetradixpre-shed-shot&cat=734)

And I'll close off with one for Californian snake lovers (you're looking at coils from four snakes despite just two heads in shot, these are all CB2012 from Sjoerd and Fons) -

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/pile_of_Californians_-_P1000583.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12029&title=californians-21&cat=734)

[jwolfe152]

nice pictures love the blue eyes in the last one makes them look all kinds of evil

[chris-uk]

nice pictures love the blue eyes in the last one makes them look all kinds of evil

I like the Cuitzeos when they have blue eyes - jet black body with blue eyes, and a creamy white chin.

But I do like the contrast of the infernalis in blue-phase against a recently shed tetra in that last photo.

[chris-uk]

We must all have those moments when you see a fantastic photo, but don't have a camera or simply miss the shot. I just had one of those moments.

Iodine was drinking, and being small and light the surface tension in the water was forming a circle around her head as she was pressing her mouth into the water, the angle of the light and my viewing angle meant that the dip in water was forming a halo round her head.
Now if I'd had a camera in my hand, a suitable lens to capture a closeup of her head from around 1.5m, and the viv door was open to remove the reflection... It would have been a fantastic photo to share.

I just have to settle for sharing my revelation that garters can make the water dip when they drink and don't break the surface tension.

[chris-uk]

We must all have those moments when you see a fantastic photo, but don't have a camera or simply miss the shot. I just had one of those moments.

Iodine was drinking, and being small and light the surface tension in the water was forming a circle around her head as she was pressing her mouth into the water, the angle of the light and my viewing angle meant that the dip in water was forming a halo round her head.
Now if I'd had a camera in my hand, a suitable lens to capture a closeup of her head from around 1.5m, and the viv door was open to remove the reflection... It would have been a fantastic photo to share.

I just have to settle for sharing my revelation that garters can make the water dip when they drink and don't break the surface tension.

[guidofatherof5]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words but your description was pretty worthy too.

[chris-uk]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words but your description was pretty worthy too.

So worthy that I appear to have posted it twice. :D

[RicMartin]

Very Cool!

[chris-uk]

Thought I'd share how I keep my records for growth and shedding for my garters. I've been keeping a spreadsheet in Google Docs (now Google Drive) for some time, but I'd keep written sheets and every few months copy the data over to the spreadsheet. Pretty much all it did was draw a growth chart for me.

As it's now easier for me to update spreadsheets on my phone (Google have improves the app on Android, the Drive app is far better than the old Google Docs app) I thought I'd improve my sheet. It now has a summary sheet which pulls in key information about each snake from the sheets (each snake has it's own sheet). I've also added more calculations to give me information like the gap between sheds, averages for those gaps, the current weight and change in weight from previous weight...

I like data, and I like my garter snakes, so a spreadsheet showing me data about my garter snakes is pretty damn cool.

Here's a couple of screenshots (you should be able to click the image to get a larger picture):

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/SnakeSheet_-_summary.GIF (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12044&title=snake-records-in-google-docs&cat=734)
The summary screen, with cells that change colour to highlight possible areas of concern (overdue sheds or snakes that have lost weight).


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/SnakeSheet_-_Binky_detail.GIF (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12043&title=snake-records-in-google-docs&cat=734)
The details sheet. I just enter the events in the main list and a bunch of functions pull the data into the other parts of the sheet and run calculations on the data. There's another section below the sheds column that runs the calculations around weight changes.

I'll still be keeping week to week feeding records on my whiteboard, the spreadsheet would become quite unwieldy if I noted every feed day for every snake, so I'll just record significant periods of non-feeding in the spreadsheet.

All in all, I think I've now got a slick, geeky way to keep my records and view them quickly from anywhere. If anyone else uses Google Spreadsheets and either wants to suggest improvements or wants any of my formulas let me know (some of the formulas are tied to the way I keep my records, but could be easily adapted).

[EasternGirl]

Great pics, Chris...and thanks for the update on the brood. O...M....G....I want a San Fran so badly!!! Can I come live with you and Char so that I can own one? Anyone who wants to let me know if they have an infernalis for cheap...I wouldn't mind having one of those! I am so happy to know that you are caring for John's garters...it makes me smile and feel sad at the same time. Greg has the others, right?

[chris-uk]

Great pics, Chris...and thanks for the update on the brood. O...M....G....I want a San Fran so badly!!! Can I come live with you and Char so that I can own one? Anyone who wants to let me know if they have an infernalis for cheap...I wouldn't mind having one of those!

You want an infernalis really, they're far more entertaining to watch than the tetrataenia. If you were over here Greg could help you with an infernalis - I'm sure he'd cut you a deal ;).


I am so happy to know that you are caring for John's garters...it makes me smile and feel sad at the same time. Greg has the others, right?

Greg has most of John's garters (and got a litter of checkereds from the same parents as my Eskerina), although 3 went to another keeper and I've lost track of those ones. I believe that they may have been sold on last year because I saw an advert that could have been them.

[chris-uk]

Feeling a bit bad after a feeding accident yesterday. I feed my infernalis in separate tubs, and managed to trap the tip of Dante's tail between the top of the tub and the lid. She fed with her tail trapped and as the lids are black and the tubs opaque I could see she was eating but it wasn't until I bent took a close look to see why she was thrashing around that I realised. By that point she'd managed to make a clear break in bone and most of the skin was torn about 3mm from the tip.
Unfortunately there was no way that it would heal and it would have dropped off anyway (it was bent at a right angle) so I removed it and treated the tail with some F10 barrier ointment. There was no bleeding and she continued to eat while her tail was trapped and after I'd freed her and amputated at the break.

It's not going to do her any lasting harm and she got extra salmon out of me. What I thought was worth sharing was that having her tail trapped didn't stop her clearing the bowl of salmon in the tub.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like you did a good job Doc.

[chris-uk]

Sounds like you did a good job Doc.

Good job of fixing it. Not a good job of putting her in her tub for feeding. I've just checked her over and applied some more F10, she struggled a bit when I was looking at her and bled just a couple of drops. I'll keep her in a small RUB so that she can't move so much and to reduce the risk of infection (clean RUB as opposed to viv that she shares with her siblings that has Repticard substrate and a whole load of places to burrow and hide), and keep applying the F10 a couple of times a day.

I managed to get a bottle of Hibiclens and some triple antibiotic cream brought back from the US recently, so I have those as treatment options. I don't see a topical antibiotic as necessary at this point, as the F10 has good broad spectrum antimicrobial and antifungal actions. I got the Hibiclens in case I ever need to treat mouth infections, but is it much use for other things?

[jwolfe152]

wow i know you said it was a small area but how did you amputate it without exposing bone or hurting her more?

[chris-uk]

wow i know you said it was a small area but how did you amputate it without exposing bone or hurting her more?

She had already done most of the work for me, if I'd left her another few minutes I think she would have ripped the end off on the her own. All I had to do was cut through the bone and ligaments that were still holding the end on, I used a pair of dissection scissors because a scalpel would have needed me to pin her down.
I suspect it hurt a little, but not enough to stop her chewing down the piece of salmon I gave her to keep her still while I did it. I'm pretty sure she didn't miss a chew. :)
It obviously did expose bone and a cross section of the inside of her tail, but at that point in her body the diameter of her tail is less than 1mm. It really is a tiny injury and without looking closely you wouldn't notice the tail isn't complete.

At the end of the day she had a section of tail which almost certainly had no feeling in it because the spinal cord was damaged, and definitely had no blood supply. I could have left it to fall off on its own, but leaving it added the risk that necrosis could spread infection into the wound. Removing the dead tissue was the sensible thing to do.

[chris-uk]

I have (mostly) a bunch of eating machines. The one I'm most happy with is my female blackneck, she ate like monster today. The male blackneck has continued to be choosy about when he eats, and is just about maintaining his weight at around 50g. My big girls seem to be unhappy with the amount I'm feeding them, but Lacci is already quite girthy and I don't want her crossing a line to become a fat girl. The infernalis are all stuffing their faces every feed.

'Tis the season to be growing.

[chris-uk]

H was a public holiday, and I spent most of it rearranging vivs. The two mental checkereds that I adopted via Greg, we're in a 90cm because I'd planned to move my other checkereds in there after quarantine had completed, but those two are too mental to live with Binky and Esk who are quite timid. So the mental pair have gone into a 60cm and the 90cm has come back downstairs for the boys. The other boys have done well out of the re-jig:


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/IMAG0577.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12067&title=boys-viv26-aug&cat=734)

This is taken through the glass at one end looking up the length of the viv, Lipwig is exploring on the left. The heatmat is a the far end and there are an assortment of tubes and hides for the boys to use. I'm quite happy with the way it's looking.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks good.

[chris-uk]

Quick update on a couple of interesting behavioural observations.


Blacknecks (T. c. cyrtopsis)
My female blackneck has been unusually active over the last two weeks. She's out more frequently when I go into the room, and is out exploring most days around teatime (say 5-6pm). I've seen her systematically checking the mesh on top of the viv over the last few days. However, she is refusing food and hasn't eaten since 22 Sept (so 4 weeks without feeding now).

The male blackneck has been a picky eater over the summer. He was refusing food from 1 Sept until last week. He's not so active, but then again he lives in my office and I've not been working from home so much over the last 2-3 weeks so won't have seen him if he was out and about.

My thinking is that it's the time of year that they are both wanting to brumate and that female is looking for somewhere to go to brumate. Does anyone think this is likely?


San Francisco (T. s. tetrataenia)
He's had a real upturn in feeding over the last month or two, start of the summer he was a picky little one, but recently he's been consistent. Suspicious in that he's had an uptake in his feeding in the same time frame that the male radix he lives with has been refusing food...


The Tiddlers (male infernalis and female radix)
The two 2013 babies are doing well. Eating almost every feed (I've dropped feeding to every 3 days on average, although some days they will get a small feed two days in a row). Both are growing and I've nearly got enough sheds out of them to predict their shedding schedule, one more shed each and I'll have some better data.


On the whole I've started thinking about who to brumate and who to keep awake over the winter. I'll be brumating them in my garage, plan is to rig up a small "room" within the garage with a tubular heater on a thermostat set to keep the "room" above 5C.
So far I'm thinking that the ones that will get a proper long brumation will be: both radix, both cyrtopsis (they stopped eating over the winter last year and I think they need cooling so that they know when to start eating again in the spring), the two rescued checkereds, possibly my parietalis girl.
The Cuitzeos will have their heat turned off but won't be cooled in the garage. As they'll be in the house I'll see how they fair and play them a little by ear.
I won't be brumating: the two tiddlers, the 2012 infernalis, or my albino and normal checkered girl.

The jury is out on Nobby my parietalis, last week I found a small cyst under a belly scale. This is a scale that was damaged when she escaped two years ago and was caught by the cat. It's a long time for that to have caused the cyst, but possibly the bite/claw damage might have left a gap in the scale that is vulnerable to collecting crap. She'll only be brumating if the cyst is cleared up soon.

I've not decided on Twoflower (the San Fran). If he's eating well I want to keep him up and feeding, last year he was quite picky and he's not gained a lot of weight over the last year so the temptation is to keep him awake and feeding while the going is good.

[chris-uk]

A couple of weeks ago I posted a photo of my San Francisco Garter on Facebook. Fons commented about the orange on his belly and dorsal stripe being unusual. I didn't have good photos to show his belly until today. Rather than just sharing them on Facebook and Google+ I thought I'd pop them on the best garter snake forum in the world.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/1040191_1.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12137&title=twoflower18m-old-tetrataenia&cat=500)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/1040197_1.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12138&title=twoflower18m-old-tetrataenia&cat=500)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/1040199_1.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12139&title=twoflower18m-old-tetrataenia&cat=500)

[guidofatherof5]

Awesome snake.

[Char361979]

Yes he is indeedy. Just wish I had more snakey time. Have two boys to run around after.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Sweet Snake Chris!

[chris-uk]

Some of my boys. I've asked the same question on the Facebook Thamnophis group, but I expect better answers here ;-). So, how many boys and which species?

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/20131113212518_1.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12148&title=some-of-my-boys&cat=734)

I suppose you guys have the advantage of my signature.

[Stefan-A]

Sirtalis, eques & radix.

[chris-uk]

Sirtalis, eques & radix.

Care to go to the sub-species on the sirtalis?

[Stefan-A]

Infernalis.

[chris-uk]

Infernalis.

Nope it is http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/12656-chris-garters-3.html#post252328.
But it was a 50/50, and I can't tell the infernalis from the tetrataenia head-on.

[chris-uk]

I had a strange shed over the new year. My (wife's) tetrataenia decided to go blue on New Year's Eve, and stayed blue for seven days so I was starting to get worried. Anyway, his eyes cleared a few days ago and he shed cleanly yesterday with no problems. Normally his blue phase lasts for two days, which was why I was a bit worried.
This got me thinking, the difference with this shed is that I'd turned the heat off in his viv (and the others in my dining room) before Christmas to give them a short cool period, the central heating kept the viv temps between 16 and 20C. I was thinking that the shedding process relies on the layers of skin being separated, and this is almost certainly an enzyme mediated process (guessing the blue fluid secreted between layers contains enzymes, I really should do some research) and the lower temp reduced the efficiency of the enzymes.

Does anyone know of good sources of information about the shedding process? I'm thinking about information aimed at undergraduate level.

[guidofatherof5]

Grabbed these for you Chris. Not sure if it's what you're looking for.;) Did a search on Google Scholar
Google Scholar (http://scholar.google.com/)

Hypophysectomy and Thyroidectomy of Snakes. (http://ebm.sagepub.com/content/30/9/1363.extract)
Effects of ultraviolet B on epidermal morphology, shedding, lipid peroxide, and antioxidant enzymes in Cope?s rat snake (Elaphe taeniura) (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1011134403000940)
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie (http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1437733?uid=3739640&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21103322530533)

[gregmonsta]

One of my parietalis boys spent the majority of his brumation (2 months) in shed. I just peeled him today after waking him up. Last year I put a female in the blue phase in for brumation and it also took her a lot longer to complete the process.

[chris-uk]

Thanks Steve. Interesting reads, but not exactly what I'm looking for. I'll have a good look when I get a bit of free time (not much of that with Joseph running around and keeping me busy).

Changing subject slightly, here are three photos I was tossing up between for this month's photo contest... The Infernal Three have their favourite peep hole in a cork bark hide. There's usually one, two or all three of them peering out during the day.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/IMG_20140114_220308.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12191&title=peeping-garters&cat=734)


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/IMG_20140114_215909.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12190&title=peeping-garters&cat=734)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/IMG_20140114_221452.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12192&title=peeping-garters&cat=734)

[chris-uk]

My male radix went back in the boys viv today. Coincidentally my female radix shed this afternoon, so I thought I'd try a little experiment (the thought was planted by Steve's comment about males coming out of brumation having one-tracked mind). I put the fresh female radix shed in the boys' viv to see how Lipwig would react.
Lipwig had a quick sniff, did a couple of laps of the viv, then went back to sleep in the warm hide where he'd been before I put the shed in.
Twoflower (tetrataenia) showed more interest, he kept approaching the shed and coming and going for 15-20 minutes.
Vlad (cuitzeoensis) went nuts. He wound in amongst the shed moved it around and generally picked up his activity level massively, considering he's normally relatively shy the smell of a female made him forget he was a scaredy cat. After about half an hour he stopped and coiled up under the shed with his head next to the head of the shed. After I took the shed out he stayed active for the rest of the evening.

Interesting that it would seem that a female smells attractive to males of quite distantly related species. Also interesting that the male radix seemed to work out very quickly that it was just a shed and there was no action to be had.

[guidofatherof5]

I know it would be cruel to the male but it would be interesting to see how he reaches to the real thing in a separate container with you supervising the encounter.

[chris-uk]

The thought had crossed my mind Steve. It's a bit mean to give him a whiff of a female then snatch her away mid-court, but I'm curious too as to whether it's just that he knew the shed was just a shed or whether he wasn't interested in courting full stop.

I know for sure that if I was to Vlad in a tank with Lacci they'd be at it in minutes, he goes mad when he can smell her. Lipwig I'm not sure of, but it might be more to do with Adora Belle not smelling appealing. There could be an interesting trial coming up.

[EasternGirl]

Nice update...thanks, Chris. It still fills my heart with sadness and joy when I think about you caring for John's snakes...may he rest in peace. Hey...whatever happened to the snake cam that you were streaming?

[chris-uk]

I've not got the cam setup again since moving house. Maybe I'll get it sorted out if I can work out somewhere out of a toddler's reach.

John's snakes are doing well, I'm sure that the ones Greg has are doing well too.

[chris-uk]

I know it would be cruel to the male but it would be interesting to see how he reaches to the real thing in a separate container with you supervising the encounter.

I was a bit mean to Lipwig. He's been on the prowl for days, so this afternoon I gave him five minutes supervised in the girls' viv. He was more interested in the parietalis than the radix, and didn't go near Lacci who was just giving him £*@# off vibes from under her warm hide.

He had already refused food this afternoon, I'd quite like him to get over the horny phase and eat as he lost a few grammes in brumation.

[chris-uk]

Lipwig is back on a hungry phase, which is good as he had an 11 week fast before he went into brumation (one of the reasons I brumated him). He did however regulate his food intake this evening and stopped after a pinky, a pinky head and several smelt. I'm hoping he'll keep up the eating phase for a while as he is about 5g below his weight from last summer, he's also unpredictable with food and 4 week spells without eating aren't unusual.

I also seem to be going through a Spring shed fest. So far 5 in two weeks. I've still got a few that haven't shed since August, but a couple of those are still in the garage. Two weeks time and I'll be bringing them in from the cold.

[chris-uk]

As someone with 17 garter snakes I expect to see a shed every now and then, I caught Lipwig (male radix) starting his shed on Saturday and grabbed my camera to film it... or would have done if my camera hadn't been upstairs, so I used my phone instead which only captured the first 3 minutes.
Then, because I use Google Plus and automatically backup photos from my phone to the cloud G+ decided to Autoawesome the video (for those that aren't aware, Autoawesome will edit a video or photos and add music etc), so I thought I'd share the video of Lipwig getting his head clear.
He struggled to free the shed on his lower jaw so just after the end of the video I helped him free it and then he slithered out of the rest of his shed without any trouble.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4mnF7RkslK8QkxaVldFY3NMU1k/edit?usp=sharing
The link is to the video on my Google Drive, I've not tried sharing a video like this before but it should open for anyone using the link.

[guidofatherof5]

Your link worked fine. Glad Lipwig had a complete shed. Good looking group your have there Chris.

Never heard of Autoawesome before and not sure I would trust it to infer the intent of my videos, interesting though.

[chris-uk]

Never heard of Autoawesome before and not sure I would trust it to infer the intent of my videos, interesting though.

I wouldn't trust rely on it to edit a video if I wanted the video to show something specific. However, it is great when you consider that all I do is take video or photos on my phone and I'll often get a message telling me there's an Autoawesome waiting for me to view a few hours later. If I like it I save, often I'll tweak it a bit myself. It also combines a series of photos into sideshows or montage. It's quite awesome. :-)

[Jeff B]

Chris that was an awesome video. Even more awesome was the 1970s porn music, I was expecting to see a pair of garters lock up at any second. Reminded me of the new Klondike Kandy Bar commercial.

[chris-uk]

I thought about changing the music from the 70's porn music that Autoawesome decided to use. But then I thought I'd leave it so that others could get the same question I did when I first watched it... "Are you watching porn on your phone? While I'm sat next to you?", said the wife.

[guidofatherof5]

I thought about changing the music from the 70's porn music that Autoawesome decided to use. But then I thought I'd leave it so that others could get the same question I did when I first watched it... "Are you watching porn on your phone? While I'm sat next to you?", said the wife.

Now that is funny.:D I didn't know there was a genre for 70's porn music.:D

[chris-uk]

Small moment today. Joseph touched his first snake this evening. He came in to the dining room while I was checking Lipwig, and as he was curious and not to boisterous I sat down with him and let him watch Lipwig slithering through my fingers. As they were both behaving I didn't stop Joe when he reached out to touch, he found it hilarious when Lipwig flicked him with his tongue. After a few minutes with Joe touching a few times (and shouting... I think he was happy to find an animal that didn't run and hide when he shouted) it was time to put Lipwig back and for Joseph to wash his hands.
And I think John would have been chuffed to know that one of his snakes is inspiring the next generation.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm sure he's smiling.;)

[chris-uk]

In other snake news...

Most of my slithery ones are almost all eating well, the exception being my male blackneck he's still only eaten once this year. My female blackneck is the eating well, which is nice, so I'm getting food in her while she's in her eating phase.

Lacci is still my biggest girl, weighing in at 544g. I also found today that her bite radius is about 45mm, that's measuring the bite mark on the back of my forearm this afternoon.

Iodine, my radix girl from Greg last year, is growing nicely and her stripe is a lovely orangey yellow.

My pair of rescued marcianus are still mental. They have the attitude of little vipers, lots of strikes and defensive posturing.

My infernal three are full of character, they aren't the most trusting girls but when I open the viv it's almost like they do a "rock, paper, scissors" to decide who's going to take a look, then they dare each other to see who will go furthest out of the viv and onto my hands. They're great to watch even if they aren't the best to hold.

[guidofatherof5]

Fun update. Thanks Chris.

[gibble888]

Great story and good to know the proper way to measure bite radius;)

[chris-uk]

[lQUOTE=gibble888;256144]Great story and good to know the proper way to measure bite radius;)[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say I measured the bite radius properly ;-) but here's my technique -
Let a snake bite you in a place that's fairly flat so the mouth will be fully opened.
Allow said snake to disengage itself, give it a stern telling off and explain that your arm is not fish.
Measure from the top of the curved bite marks before the red irritation disappears.

Technically I think the bite radius might be from one side of the jaw to the other (ie the width of the head), on this occasion I didn't care much for science. :D

[guidofatherof5]

The "stern telling off" always works with my snakes.;):D

[chris-uk]

I've just been checking over a few of the slithering ones.

The Infernal Three were their usual selves, curious from a safe distance. When I have one out of the viv the other two don't take long to get their noses pressed up against the glass - they know that they get fed outside the viv.

My year old radix girl is nice and calm, she's a radix after all.

My older male radix is calm as well. He's the first snake that Joseph has touched, Joe loves it when "snakey" flicks his tongue on his arm. He's not bad with the snake, doesn't grab and touches gently.

We've even taught Joseph a new word this evening. He now knows "raa dex". I know someone who'll like that. :-)

[guidofatherof5]

Yes I do and did.:D

[chris-uk]

I left some fish in a dish in my boys' viv while I fed the same mental checkereds upstairs this afternoon. I came back to find that one of the boys (I suspect Vlad because Lipwig seems to have started a non-eating spell and Twoflower is in deep blue and he doesn't normally eat when he's blue) had left an exchange for the fish.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/IMG_20140629_230306.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12302&title=food-exchange&cat=734)

Thanks for the fish. Here's some you fed me earlier.

[guidofatherof5]

Classic garter move.:D

[chris-uk]

Her royal blackness shed today. The shed is rather large.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/IMG_20140711_210906_1.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=12323&title=lacci-shed11-jul-2014&cat=734)

I know that sheds stretch, so I don't think Lacci is actually just under 120cm, but she's certainly a big girl.

At the same time as removing the shed I also found three jellies, but these are almost certainly from Adora (Lacci's radix tank mate).

[guidofatherof5]

Maybe not 120cm but yet a big girl.

[chris-uk]

Maybe not 120cm but yet a big girl.

Indeed. She's still got growing to do too. I got some rather pups in the last frozen food order because even the largest mouse pinks were swallowed in the strike, she pounds down a dozen or so smelt in a session too. She's never bothered with worms though.

[chris-uk]

Couple of things to update.

Lacci has just finished a fasting spell, which I think is because she was preparing to throw some jelly beans. She's lost weight over the last two months, and after her last shed at the beginning of July she hasn't eaten and has been more withdrawn. Last weekend I found a bunch of jellies, which I'm pretty sure were hers (rather than Adora's). Since then she's eaten twice, once on Wednesday when I had some food out to feed the tiddlers, and again today - when she pounded down a couple of rat pups, and maybe 20 or so smelt. She's back to normal now, coming out to my hand when I open the viv (at least for long enough to work out whether I have food...).

I had a shed today, it was the first shed I've actually seen for a long time and happened right in my hands. I separate my cyrtopsis from the two checkered girls she lives with for feeding, so she'd been in a RUB for about 30 minutes and eaten well. When I went to take her out she'd broken the skin loose on her head, as I had to transfer her back to the viv anyway I thought I'd just see if she'd slither out of her skin if I held her. Lo and behold, a minute later she was clean shed. She's been feeding really well now (feeding better than Binky, my albino checkered) for about 2 months, she's put on a good amount of weight so I'd be almost be happy that she'd be OK if she stopped eating for six months.

All the others are doing well, except for my male cyrtopsis. He's not taken any food since October now. His body tone seems OK, and he isn't particularly active so he's not burning up a lot of calories, he's obviously drinking else he'd be dead by now. He just doesn't want to eat. I tried force fedding him a couple of weeks ago, he spat the food out after I got it into his mouth, and I just just got musked for my efforts.
So, what's the longest anyone has had a 2 year-old snake go without eating and survive/thrive?

[guidofatherof5]

Glad to here most of the update is good. Hope that male will start feeding soon. Tried any live fish?

[chris-uk]

I've not tried live fish. He's eaten pinkies, smelt, salmon and trout before. So I've not really considered that what I'm offering isn't right. I could pick up a couple of fish next time I'm in an aquatic shop - the sort of size fish that would be suitable for him would be fair game for my golden Panchax if I put them in the aquarium though, so he'd have to eat that day or I'd have a fatter fish and a still hungry garter.
I'm considering putting him in with some of my males that do feed, to see if the stimulus of other snakes around him feeding turns him on. What's stopping me is that he is quite a lot smaller than Vlad, but Vlad is a wimp. Lipwig can be pushy, but he's in a fast at the moment, so it might be worth a try.

[guidofatherof5]

Flopping fish can trigger an eating response in the most stubborn of eater.

[chris-uk]

I might not need to go for the live fish. I put a smelt in his viv this afternoon and had a feel of Vimes before I left him alone, his body tone is getting bad - he just feels empty and floppy. So I told the wife that the next time I visit an aquatics shop I'll be buying half a dozen guppies (I'll need to buy half a dozen as buying a single shoaling fish would raise questions).

I went into the office a couple of hours later and the fish wasn't in the dish. I can't see it laying around the viv, and Mr Vimes is coiled up with just his head and a few loops visible so I can't see whether he's got a fish in him and I don't want to dig around and disturb him.
I've just checked my records, he last ate on the 15 October - that makes almost exactly 10 months since his last meal (12 weeks of that he was in brumation). In that time he's dropped from 46g to 40g.

I'm now hoping that this is a turnaround. I'll have a good look in the viv tomorrow and add a couple more smelt to the dish. But I'm more optimistic now than I have been with Vimes.

[guidofatherof5]

Keep us posted.

[chris-uk]

In the last couple of hours two more fish have disappeared from Mr Vimes viv. Now, either he's eating them or he's removing the fish and hiding them under the substrate. So that's three smelt in 24h.
I don't want to tempt fate, so I'm not drawing any conclusions. Either he's going to eat just enough to stop him starving to death or hopefully he's going to go the same way as my female cyrtopsis and turn into a little piggy. There's not much time for him to eat if he's going to go off food again in the Autumn like he has the last couple of years.

[snipstedy]

Are non eating spells common? I have a very young eastern ribbon(I think) that has been eating every night I feed since I caught it, but all the sudden stopped eating and hasn't eaten in well this makes the third night ( I know thats not long but compared to before its definetly a change. Every thing else seems fine with behavior. I am assuming that it may be close to shedding or something or maybe just growing. I understand that when they are really young that eat alot but that fades a bit as they grow larger.

[chris-uk]

I don't have any that feed (or are offered food) every day, most of mine are at a size where they are fed every 5-7 days, although my two youngest (both now over a year old) are fed every 3-4 days.

Non-eating spells aren't unusual, and you're right that duration isn't as good an indicator as a change from the individual's normal pattern. The one I mentioned in the last couple of posts is my worst feeder. I have some individuals that eat every time they are offered food, some where missing one meal in four is not unusual, one that will fast for a couple of months, and a couple that will stop eating for one or two feeds before a shed. I have others that eat every time even when their eyes are completely blue.

Saying all that, I also have an adult female that had eaten every meal for years (even when blue) but she stopped eating for five weeks recently. She started again after she threw a fee jelly beans. I was worried about her after she missed her second feed. On the other hand I have a male radix that will regularly stop feeding for a 6-8 weeks at a time, he's eaten one smelt in that last couple of months, but I'm not worried about him yet because I know it's his normal pattern and this week there's a good chance he will stuff himself like a little piggy.

With your young snake I wouldn't worry for a couple of weeks. Look for the signs of a shed coming, that would seem quite likely. It's also possible that with food being offered every day he's learned that there is an abundance of food and that makes him more content to skip meals knowing another is going to arrive tomorrow.

[snipstedy]

I just noticed that his eyes are blue and overall he has that sort of wax look all over so Im assuming shed soon. I am offering food a good bit so probably expects it in abundance too. Thanks

[chris-uk]

Expect a shed within a week. :-D

[guidofatherof5]

Expect a shed within a week. :-D

9 days;):D

[chris-uk]

9 days;):D

Give or take a couple of days.

[snipstedy]

How long does the shedding process last? My snake seems like his eyes have been blue with waxy look for about 3 or 4 days. This has to be the 4th shed.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds normal. I've had a few last 7 days. It can be different for each snake.

[chris-uk]

When it comes to the duration of a shed, not only does it vary between individuals but the same snake can vary from shed to shed. Typically... I see blue phases lasting 2 days, then expect a shed some time between 3 and 10 days after the eyes clear. I've had a snake go blue sometime between late evening and the next morning, it's eyes clear by the evening of the day I noticed they were blue, then shed the following day - so blue to clean shed all in two days. Not sure what her hurry was, but she normally takes longer and hasn't done a rapid shed since.

[chris-uk]

So, not much to report since my last update. They're all doing nicely, and as expected for the time of year I've got a bunch of garters choosing not to eat (about 50/50 on the last feed). Both the cyrtopsis have stopped eating, but have put on weight during their eating phase this year.

The only real thing to say is that I'm thinking about breeding the Cuitzeos in the Spring. Lacrimosa will be 5 years old next year, and as I like having the Cuitzeos I want another generation so I'd hate to leave it another year and have something happen to one of my pair (they are one generation from Steven Bol's wild-caught Cuitzeos, so nice pure and traceable lines). We'll see what Spring brings, but 2015 is probably Cuitzeos, 2016 will almost certainly be an infernalis year, and 2017 may be a radix year (although I still need to find a nice female after the 2013 scrub I got turned out to be male).

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for the update Chris. Glad to hear things are going well. How's the human scrub Joesph?

[chris-uk]

The human scrub is doing really well too. He was two in September and all he wants to do is read... And he might have started talking fairly late, but I've already reached the point a few times where I wished he'd just stop. The little man is showing all the signs of being a genius when he gets older.
Oh, and the human scrub enjoys touching the (calmer, more reliable) scrubs. I tend to use the radix. Joe thinks it's hilarious when a snake flicks it's tongue on him. I'll have him helping with the snakes in a few years.

Over the weekend I've moved all the snakes up into the small bedroom that I used as my office (my desk and things are now in the dining room). So all the slithery things are in one room now, I'll be hooking up some webcams again I think, so maybe I'll capture some interesting footage when I've got that sorted.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for the additional update. Tell Char and Joseph I said hello.