Red and Black Erythristic Flame Female gave birth

[Jeff B]

One of my erythristic flame females had babies yesterday. She was bred by only the het piedbald males. She is from Mohr anerythristic line, and has two colors black and red. Unfortunately she had some stillborns and only had 3 live babies. Two are erythristic flames and one is a normal. The normal has no color, apparently the ery flames sucked up all the color. They will be smokers as adults and will have the chance to be het pied too. I imagin a erythristic flame piebald would be amazing.
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[guidofatherof5]

Very nice.

[Scott F]

That's really cool Jeff. It will be interesting to see how that turns out as an adult.
Thanks for sharing.

Scott

[mikem]

Congrats on the three little guys! :)

[Jeff B]

Thanks guys. I had a lot of nice litters this year, but this may end up being the most significant from a breeders standpoint. Flame and or anerythristic piebalds would top of this list for me for goals. I still have one very gravid peach flame 100% proven double het schuet snow female that was bred to the het pieds. She should have her babies any day now, she is fat in the back half and off feed now. Also I forgot to mention that the erythristic flame that just gave birth to the 3 babies is 100% het schuet albino. So those babies have a lot of potiential!!! Even if the piebald doesn't prove out they are incredibly valuable outcrossed stock.

[ConcinusMan]

Congrats but I still think it's kind of ridiculous that you guys keep talking like the piebald has been proven out, (can't be het if you don't even know it's recessive or inheritable for that matter) and keep breeding the descendents of that piebald, diluting your flames, erythristics, etc. with that which is most likely nothing but an ordinary eastern. Probably the most expensive ordinary eastern ever. I keep hearing "het piebald" and keep hearing about all the breeding they are doing but I have yet to see a piebald produced. IMO it's very likely one never will be so I'm having a hard time figuring out why you guys are breeding them to practically everything.:confused:

[Jeff B]

You might be right Richard, and it's true the pied hasn't been proven. My males are from the first batch of het pieds that were sold. I guess if I end up producing a piedbald or piebald combo in a couple years you will be tasting some nasty *** crow, if not I guess the jokes on me then.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm not trying to point the finger, come down on you, Scott, or anyone else about it but I know I'm not the only one seeing the trend that flame/ery lines are going to crap lately and crossing the "het piebald" in really seems counterproductive to yet another flame/ery line and for what? a very long shot at adding piebald to the line and that's the thing wanted to voice concerns about.

I'm not going to "eat crow" as you say, if it proves out. I want it too and I hope it does for you, really. It's just that there's "been talk" that Scott and perhaps you(?) and others too have pretty much ruined some flame/ery bloodlines with all the diluting you're doing. And then I come here and see this. You breeding the unproven and probably ordinary eastern into your erythristic flames. Now you see where I'm coming from? I think you misunderstood and thought I would get some pleasure if the piebald proving fails and it's not that at all. I just don't think it's necessary to use those "hets" to dilute other very nice bloodlines to prove out the piebald but you're breeding them to everything. Shoot, breed them to anything but a highly valuable flame/ery line, know what I mean?

What if I took the bluest, most desirable blue puget line and started diluting that line with plain black yellow or pale green? I wouldn't. That would be stupid.

[Jeff B]

I know you aren't pointing any fingers. Fact is the whole piebald deal has a fishy smell and has since day one. When more and more babies just kept coming on the market and then a month later Joe is brokering them or whatever it started to really stink to high hell. That said I am still going the distance with it just as I did with the axanthic Chicago, and if it doesn't work at least I will sleep knowing made a go of it.
Any talk about diluting ery/flame lines is just hot air, you need to out cross anyway. It's funny how people criticize line breeding and say you should be outcrossing, and then when you outcross the same people say "oh you shouldn't be diluting". I think those people talk out both sides of there mouth all the time. Take another look at that one baby in this post, she will be as good as anything ever produced when she is an adult and you can mark my word on that I will show you a picture of her in 2 years. They are never born looking like their full potential. I have two more females still to go this year that will likely produce a few smoking ery/flames and possibly albino ery/flames and I am confident if they do they will grow up to be as nice as anything out there. Next year my melting hot ery/flame albino female will be two years old and if she produces there will be some good ones. The reality of the ery and flame genes is they don't all come out A++ ever regardless of the breeding and anyone that says they produce whole litters of great flames or erys is full of crap.

[Eddie]

Jeff
Congrats on the new babies!! I hope the pied gene proves out myself. If not the out crossing we all have done will be good for the hobby. The "het pieds" that I have look killer as normals anyway!
Ed

[Jeff B]

I agree Ed, even if the pied doesn't prove out the het pieds I have, have a very bright high contrast pattern for normals and they are great feeders.

[BUSHSNAKE]

I know you aren't pointing any fingers. Fact is the whole piebald deal has a fishy smell and has since day one. When more and more babies just kept coming on the market and then a month later Joe is brokering them or whatever it started to really stink to high hell. That said I am still going the distance with it just as I did with the axanthic Chicago, and if it doesn't work at least I will sleep knowing made a go of it.
Any talk about diluting ery/flame lines is just hot air, you need to out cross anyway. It's funny how people criticize line breeding and say you should be outcrossing, and then when you outcross the same people say "oh you shouldn't be diluting". I think those people talk out both sides of there mouth all the time. Take another look at that one baby in this post, she will be as good as anything ever produced when she is an adult and you can mark my word on that I will show you a picture of her in 2 years. They are never born looking like their full potential. I have two more females still to go this year that will likely produce a few smoking ery/flames and possibly albino ery/flames and I am confident if they do they will grow up to be as nice as anything out there. Next year my melting hot ery/flame albino female will be two years old and if she produces there will be some good ones. The reality of the ery and flame genes is they don't all come out A++ ever regardless of the breeding and anyone that says they produce whole litters of great flames or erys is full of crap.
lol Jeff Bill had a problem with you and scott wanting them all so he sent some to me cuz I had friends interested in them

[Jeff B]

Joe, how many of those het pieds did you receive?

[BUSHSNAKE]

Joe, how many of those het pieds did you receive?
3.3, got rid of 2.1 and the rest died

[BUSHSNAKE]

Congrats but I still think it's kind of ridiculous that you guys keep talking like the piebald has been proven out, (can't be het if you don't even know it's recessive or inheritable for that matter) and keep breeding the descendents of that piebald, diluting your flames, erythristics, etc. with that which is most likely nothing but an ordinary eastern. Probably the most expensive ordinary eastern ever. I keep hearing "het piebald" and keep hearing about all the breeding they are doing but I have yet to see a piebald produced. IMO it's very likely one never will be so I'm having a hard time figuring out why you guys are breeding them to practically everything.:confused:
haha I totally agree Richard, heres an idea...people need to stop selling unproven hets then we wouldn't have to deal with all this speculation. Now theres an original idea. i realize bill would of not been able to do that. unfortunately the snake ended up in the wrong hands. the pied didn't prove out so stop calling them "het pied" cuz theres no such thing

[Jeff B]

haha I totally agree Richard, heres an idea... i realize bill would of not been able to do that. unfortunately the snake ended up in the wrong hands. the pied didn't prove out so stop calling them "het pied" cuz theres no such thing

That is so ironically hypocritical, Joe, you and Bill are the only ones who have actually sold "het pieds" that I know of, yet you say and I quote from you above "people need to stop selling unproven hets then we wouldn't have to deal with all this speculation. Now theres an original idea."

[snakeman]

If I thought they were legit I would've bought them in a second

[ConcinusMan]

haha I totally agree Richard, heres an idea...people need to stop selling unproven hets then we wouldn't have to deal with all this speculation. Now theres an original idea. i realize bill would of not been able to do that. unfortunately the snake ended up in the wrong hands. the pied didn't prove out so stop calling them "het pied" cuz theres no such thing


That is so ironically hypocritical, Joe, you and Bill are the only ones who have actually sold "het pieds" that I know of, yet you say and I quote from you above "people need to stop selling unproven hets then we wouldn't have to deal with all this speculation. Now theres an original idea."

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxjlw4AnIX1rn1xxfo1_250.gif

[BUSHSNAKE]

That is so ironically hypocritical, Joe, you and Bill are the only ones who have actually sold "het pieds" that I know of, yet you say and I quote from you above "people need to stop selling unproven hets then we wouldn't have to deal with all this speculation. Now theres an original idea."
oh you got me