Blacknecks Are Different

[EKS56]

Owning the Blackneck garter can be stressful if you aren't informed as to what to expect. This website has been a tremendous help.

I have spent a good deal of time on the internet studying up on these snakes and this article is the best I have seen by far.
If you have Blacknecks this is certainly worth the read.

Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research - Herpetological Papers and Articles - Observations on the Eastern Blackneck Garter Snake (Thamnophis cyrtopsis ocellatus) (http://www.southwesternherp.com/articles/observationsonblackneckgartersnakes.html)

[guidofatherof5]

I didn't read it in its entirety but what I did read was done well. Good thread to start with a very good link.

[Darlo]

Am enjoyable read - thanks for posting the link!

[Steveo]

I always find good info at that site, I just wish they would branch out and cover the rest of North America!

[chris-uk]

Nice article. Thanks for the link.

[Thamnophis]

Good article! Thanks for sharing!

[ConcinusMan]

Speaking of different, Kris Haas found this cyrtopsis at the bottom of an empty swimming pool in Mexico. Hypomel/albino? First that I've seen or heard of. Nice!

http://i39.tinypic.com/2m6js7n.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

I'd say hypo.

[ConcinusMan]

first mutation that I know of. But of course it seems like it's always field herpers instead of herpetoculturists that find these things. :rolleyes:

Still, better to have a good photo for confirmation than just an oral report. That thing is awesome!

[Dan72]

WOW:eek:! Awesome snake. Thanks for sharing the article.

[gibble888]

Thanks for the article...it was a good read.

[Stefan-A]

Speaking of different, Kris Haas found this cyrtopsis at the bottom of an empty swimming pool in Mexico. Hypomel/albino? First that I've seen or heard of. Nice!

http://i39.tinypic.com/2m6js7n.jpg
Funny how nobody ever finds one that looks better than the original.

[EKS56]

I kind of keep an eye out and I'll have to say that I don't see a lot of Blacknecks for sale.

[ConcinusMan]

Funny how nobody ever finds one that looks better than the original.

I still think it looks pretty darn nice

[Stefan-A]

I still think it looks pretty darn nice
As nice as a sandblasted Bentley.

[ConcinusMan]

Well then your wanderings must be as nice as a rusty VW beetle without wheels. :p

[Stefan-A]

Well then your wanderings must be as nice as a rusty VW beetle without wheels. :p
Sure, if Beetles left the VW factory rusty and without wheels.

That blackneck is the sort that would it by some miracle leave the factory, it would be recalled immediately and everyone who had ever seen it would be bribed to silence so that it wouldn't ruin the manufacturer's reputation.

[ConcinusMan]

LoL you crack me up. So I take it that the mere fact that it's not normal makes it ugly to you? Is that really all it takes?

[Stefan-A]

LoL you crack me up. So I take it that the mere fact that it's not normal makes it ugly to you? Is that really all it takes?
No, the mere opinion that the normal ones look better makes that one look ugly to me.

Put it next to a normal blackneck and then tell me it's not fugly as sin.

[ConcinusMan]

Put it next to a normal blackneck and then tell me it's not fugly as sin.

Ahh.. comparison. The grass is always greener...

I just look at that picture and strikes me as a beautiful snake. I couldn't care less what it looks like compared to something else. So no, it's not fugly.


No, the mere opinion that the normal ones look better..

There's that word again. :rolleyes: I think the normals and this snake are equally beautiful. Just in different ways.

[Stefan-A]

Ahh.. comparison. The grass is always greener...
That's a misapplication. "The grass is always greener" would be applicable to someone drooling over something different, like that bleached blackneck, when he already has a normal.


I just look at that picture and strikes me as a beautiful snake. I couldn't care less what it looks like compared to something else. So no, it's not fugly.
It is fugly. It's fugly as freaking hell. It's a downgrade. A monkey model.

[ConcinusMan]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/files/2013/08/picard-facepalm.gif


A monkey model.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7161796864/h8945338B/

[Stefan-A]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7161796864/h8945338B/

Export variants of Soviet military equipment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_model)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Very nice looking snake!!! The normals are very nice looking too, but this snake is in no way fugly to me!
Speaking of different, Kris Haas found this cyrtopsis at the bottom of an empty swimming pool in Mexico. Hypomel/albino? First that I've seen or heard of. Nice!

http://i39.tinypic.com/2m6js7n.jpg

[chris-uk]

Speaking of different, Kris Haas found this cyrtopsis at the bottom of an empty swimming pool in Mexico. Hypomel/albino? First that I've seen or heard of. Nice!

http://i39.tinypic.com/2m6js7n.jpg

Can someone explain to me how this would be considered hypomelanistic or albino? Isn't the definition of albino an absence of melanin (i.e. no black or amelanistic), and hypomelanistic would have reduced expression of melanin (less black than normal)?

I'm looking at this and seeing black, but it doesn't have the bright yellows of a normal. In my eyes it's hypoxanthic or axanthic.

As I say, that's what I would have considered it, I think this snake looks like a bleached our version of the normal, and I tend to switch off when it comes to morphs. But in this case my interest was peeked by the description of it as an albino.

[ConcinusMan]

Can someone explain to me how this would be considered hypomelanistic

I consider it to be hypomelanistic. Whether it be amelanistic or hyopmelanistic it wouldn't necessarily be incorrect to call it an albino. It appears to have reduced melanin, not to mention, pink / red eyes. Any other pigments that may or may not be affected is irrelevant.


Isn't the definition of albino an absence of melanin (i.e. no black or amelanistic),

The definition of amelanistic does mean a complete lack of melanin. However, "albino" doesn't necessarily.



and hypomelanistic would have reduced expression of melanin (less black than normal)?

Correct. It might be helpful to think of it as intermediate between normal and amelanistic.


it doesn't have the bright yellows of a normal. In my eyes it's hypoxanthic or axanthic.

Yes I noticed that too and you could be right but we don't really know whats going on here on a molecular level. It is quite plausible for a mutated allele or pair of alleles on a loci to have an affect on more than one type of pigment or pigment precursor simultaneously. Also, I think this is a western ssp. They vary quite a bit and don't necessarily have "bright yellows" as a normal. Even if it is as you say, hypoaxanthic or axanthic that doesn't change the fact that it is also hypomelanistic. It very well might have all pigments reduced.

Simply having a lack of normal pigment production, one could call it albino. It doesn't necessarily have to be completely amelanistic to be called an albino. Make sense? In fact, another laymans term for melanistic is "black albino" ;)

[chris-uk]

Makes sense. Thanks Richard.

[ThamGirl]

That is a gorgeous snake! Does seem to have some odd genes going on, though.

Wow, reading that article, I didn't realize just how different the Easterns are from my Westerns. Similar temperaments, but food preference seems pretty different (ours are fish/tadpole eaters, avoiding frogs and toads and flat out refusing mice). Not to mention that you have to light the tank for Westerns- they stop eating if you don't and don't seem to like UTHs.
I do still want a pair of Easterns though. ^_^

[chris-uk]

Not to mention that you have to light the tank for Westerns- they stop eating if you don't and don't seem to like UTHs.
I do still want a pair of Easterns though. ^_^

My western blacknecks don't have problems with UTH, they have bright LED lighting as well. They just don't need a reason to stop eating, when they eat and how much is completely down to whim and the male is worse than the female.

[ConcinusMan]

Not to mention that you have to light the tank for Westerns- they stop eating if you don't and don't seem to like UTHs.

A friend in Portland keeps WC westerns in racks with heat tape and they do just fine. ;)

They are nippy little boogers though. Open the racks and they scramble to hide from the light and/or do a viper impression.

[ThamGirl]

Maybe it's because mine are from the local desert? The other locals I've talked to who keep Black Necks have said the same things- they have issues with them if there isn't a good light source.

[norcalj]

Speaking of different, Kris Haas found this cyrtopsis at the bottom of an empty swimming pool in Mexico. Hypomel/albino? First that I've seen or heard of. Nice!

http://i39.tinypic.com/2m6js7n.jpg


That's a Cyrtopsis? Are you sure it's not a Marcianus?

[guidofatherof5]

Here's another of those hypos from 8/24/2011. Thanks Steve Schmidt for the info.
Western Black-necked Gartersnake (Thamnophis cyrtopsis cyrtopsis) (http://www.naherp.com/photo.php?v_id=108580)

[ConcinusMan]

Maybe it's because mine are from the local desert?

Where do you think my friend got them? ;)

He's had them 4 years now in a rack. Gopher snake too from the same area. Man that thing is gorgeous.

[chris-uk]

That's a Cyrtopsis? Are you sure it's not a Marcianus?

The neck and the texture of the black (that each black check is made up of closely spaced stripes) says cyrtopsis.

[ConcinusMan]

Definitely. Both hypomels are western blacknecks.